87roach's 1987 S Hatch Build

[Tdurr]

Sweet. The hood mod is on my list also. Keep up the progress and updates!

[87roach]

Will do man.

Yea the hood mod is nice! I think I'll take a look at the JY to see if there is a legend there but even if not, the online prices seem to be reasonable.

Unfortunately no progress this weekend, I do hope to get down next weekend for some driving and tuning though.. hopefully I can sell my daily soon too to get a bit more cash in my pocket(or maybe use the money for the dyno... that would be nice but unlikely right now).

[Tdurr]

what is your daily now?

[87roach]

[Tdurr]

Sexy.

[87roach]

You haven't seen her good side!

So on Sunday I managed to get a good friend of mine to drive the hatch around for an hour or so while I watched and did changes on the computer as we went. Man, what a huge difference and it's so much safer doing this! We did mostly light driving around town and a few 3rd gear pulls to see how it went, all in all it went pretty well. There is definitely a lot more work to do but I am learning more as time goes on and I think I'll get there, I can always take it to the dyno at some point but at $150 an hour I really can't afford it. Plus I have to buy a few front end bushings and replace those very soon.

Damn I still gotta get some pictures up. Right now the hatch is getting a nice sap paint job from being parked by a lovely big tree, ugh. Oh well, maybe she'll shine again haha.

[Tdurr]

Yes! Great to hear you are getting it to run better. We are going to need some videos and photos asap!

[89T]

Update

[Tdurr]

what he said ^^^

[87roach]

Not much to update on guys, I haven't been able to get out to the hatch. I am still trying to get rid of my neon, so I can insure my mini, so that I can enjoy it for a few months this year... and to also get to the hatch. Once the neon sells I'll be able to get some control arm bushings and redo those and get some more tuning under way, I hope to do this not this weekend but the next, and get some pics too!

[87roach]

Okay well, I did do some work on the hatch. I managed to get both of the front upper control arm bushings changed out(new moog). After taking one apart I noticed that it didn't look quite right and apparently I assembled it wrong when I did them last, there however was nothing broken or worn or looked out of sorts.. Anyway, I assembled them correctly this time with the new bushings and rubber safe lubricant, got everything back together and went for a test drive.. well the steering wheel still shakes upon braking and I'm not sure what it is. I tightened everything up, amd just about everything is pretty recent or new and there is no appreciable wear when I wiggle the tires around in the air.

It only shakes when you apply the brakes, but if you press the brakes hard enough it smooths out and goes away. Any ideas?

I'm going to head out there Sunday to do some tuning again and see if I can figure out the cause of the shake.

[89T]

Sounds like roters need turned or replaced.

[MessyHonda]

when was the last time you changed out your radius rod bushings on the front crossmember?

[87roach]

Sounds like roters need turned or replaced.

Yea I was thinking about this too, I'd better save for that next I suppose.

when was the last time you changed out your radius rod bushings on the front crossmember?

Actually I have never done this yet, I would like to replace these as well.

It's always something!

[87roach]

Okay, well... I figured I bite the bullet. I just ordered some of the Moog radius rod bushings, hopefully they will be here this month, along with the front rotors and pads I also just ordered. I am quite certain the wobble is the rotors as was suggested, I do have some diagnostics to do to confirm it in the mean time.

Also, my good buddy and myself drove the hatch for around 4-5 hours yesterday while I adjusted the numbers in Neptune... it's certainly getting better. We did all sorts of driving from stop and go in town, some highway driving for consistent speeds, and then some pulls from a stop. The trick I am finding is that there is just not enough road when I need it! I want all the data all day long!!!!

I am currently finding that the hardest thing to tune/adjust is the lower speed area(1000rpm to 3000rpm before positive manifold pressure), stop and go type driving. One second you're lean then next your too rich and so on, it definitely will take more time to get there. A whole lot of massaging of the numbers really, I wish I could afford a dyno tune but I just don't know if I can afford it this year.. once I get the brake stuff on I have to get an alignment and the total of the bushings, rotors and pads and alignment will probably run around $400, which is equal to only 2 hours on the dyno. I have yet to actually go to the shop and see how it is and what software's they are actually familiar with too.

Otherwise, I have been keeping an eye on everything and it's looking pretty good. No leaks from anything(yet) and no signs or sounds of obvious problems. Unfortunately there is a pin-hole leak in my valve cover where the fan side vent hose comes out, maybe it's plugable with some JB, but currently not a concern.

I think the parts will take a few weeks to get here, less if I am lucky and then I will take some pictures to post.

[Tdurr]

Do you have open loop enabled? If so disable it. It will make it easier to tune when ur in vac since it wont be switching "maps"

[87roach]

Under Parameters>Main Settings>Closed Loop> "Closed Loop Enabled" is UN-checked.

Ohhh okay so after reading: Open Loop vs. Closed Loop much sense has been made and now I see why my numbers were all over the place. I haven't messed with these settings yet but it certainly looks like another area to fine tune.

"For reference, most OEM cars are tuned to run closed loop o2 on partial throttle driving to get the best gas mileage, and then run open loop on wide open throttle (WOT) to be sure the motor runs the safest it can, and that the factory fuel map is not modified in any way. Closed loop is when the ECU does refer to the o2 sensor for feedback. Using the o2 sensor the ECU will modify its fuel table based on the readings the o2 sensor is seeing"

Thanks Tim, this should make thing's quite a bit easier to get to my target a/f ratios! Awesome!

It looks like my bushings have shipped out and will be here around the 24th if all goes well, not quite sure about the brakes yet but since they are in Canada already it shouldn't take much longer.

[Tdurr]

no problem. hope you can get it running like a champ soon!

[87roach]

A bit of an update:

I received the bushings and brakes on this past Friday and proceeded to install them on Sunday.

I only did the front brakes because it was raining on and off and time was running out. So I moved the car, jacked it up, took off the wheels, calipers, removed the old rotors and pads(pretty much 98% unused unfortunately), I cleaned all the mating surfaces to make sure nothing was causing issues, and installed the new rotors and brake pads for both sides.

I was curious as to what side or even if it was both that had a wobble in it so when the car was jacked up I started it and put it into gear to watch the rotors closely as they spun. It wasn't terribly obvious but you could tell there was movement. I also did the same thing with the rotors off and just the hubs spinning and much to my dismay I found a wobble in the drivers side hub and no movement in the passenger.. while it's not a lot, pretty much any run-out there I think would cause issues. So.. all I could do was assemble everything back together(I did the rotation test again with the new brakes on the drivers side and you could see the caliper very slightly moving in and out) and go for a drive to see if it stayed the exact same or there was change.

Well, I went for a test drive and it actually braked nice and smooth and straight! So that was a pleasant surprise but I am still worried that the hub will create a wobble but I don't know. So for now it appears to be ok, I did some light braking and worked up to some harder braking test and everything went well. I certainly can't afford a new hub and the labor associated with it so that's pretty much how it'll be for a while, but if it develops a problem I think that hub is the culprit(even though it has very low km's on it, it must have been from installation or something.

After that I did a bit of tuning but not much as time ran out. I am really tempted to take it to get dyno tuned as I just want to drive around without being worried but I am not sure how to afford that yet!

Anyway, the next work is to change out those radius rod bushings and get an alignment done. One day I'll take pictures again! I also have to make a new sig, it's very dated now haha.

[Tdurr]

yeaaa that sig is old :p

but sucks about the hub. at least you didnt get a new Koyo presseed in to find it wobbly -_- but a tune shoudnt be too crazy. say 3-500 depending on the shops rates. normally takes 3 hrs from what ive seen.

[87roach]

Well maybe it was wobbly from the start.. I am not sure though.

There are three dyno shops in my area, all start at $150 an hour. One specializes in mazda's and apparently are pretty snobby(just rumors), another that is pretty dated, and the last one is a bunch of drifters.. so I am thinking my option lies with the last one.

3 hours doesn't seem like a lot of time but maybe that's a good thing, still that's 150x3 + tax = $504. So if it took 3 hours I would probably pay for that.. I mean the logic is, is that I've already put thousands into the car so I should get it proper tuned.. hmm. I know the dyno isn't the ultimate answer but it would certainly give me a great point to go from. I will have to visit the shop at some point to see what the think and what they actually normally work on. I also still have to get some decent wheels and tires at some point and that's going to be an easy 1k. Ahhh money where art thou.

[MessyHonda]

3 hours of tuning- are they going to build you a custom map?

My tuner is a flat rate fee.

[87roach]

Tim said 3 hours of tuning is an estimated average that he has seen, I didn't mean to say that it will take that amount to tune my hatch(as I don't know yet).

They would have to build me a custom map.. that's the whole point I would be going. I don't quite understand your question?

[89T]

Should only take about an hour on the dyno.

[89T]

You don't need a full brand new map. Take what you got now. All he will do is download a base map and tune from there.