Apexi S-AFC and S-ITC (Ignition Timing Converter)

[epic1400cs]

When I was sorting out my room I have found Apexi S-AFC and S-ITC.
I understand that S-AFC works with our FI motor and I saw some of you guys using them no problem.
I am wondering if those of you who are using S-AFC can show us your setting?
I know it is depending on the other mods however, it will be still useful to know as information.

Other thing I need you guys input is S-ITC.
This is a bit old piggy back box that alter the ignition timing +/- 15 degree.

From Apex'i: "The Super ITC adjusts ignition timing by +/- 15% by modifying the crank/cam angle signal on certain vehicles. The timing curve is adjusted by setting the timing at 5 different points along the RPM range and the values between are interpolated by the ITC from those 5 points. The Super ITC used in conjunction with the Super AFC fuel controller creates a new dimension of tuning with piggyback computers. Apexi recommends having the Super ITC installed and tuned by authorized shops."
http://ca.dsm.org/tech-sitc.html

Has any of you guys have used it and if so, does it work without throwing any problems?

[AccordEpicenter]

i have no idea about the super ITC but the SAFC will work for sure. Ive used MSD BTM part number 5462 with no problems before, worked pretty good on the stock ignition

[epic1400cs]

Did you set it up yourself or pro tuner did it for you?

[86AccordLxi]

Until this post, I didnt' realize apexi ever made any timing control devices. Crazy.

I have one of the knob-style afc-s kickin around though

You can't use an SITC on a 3g because it's vacuum advance--there's no signal to interrupt.

Alex

[forrest89sei]

Well you can't use a SITC on a A Series, but you can on the B20's, some of them had PGM-IC (Electronic Advance)

[bobafett]

i think you could probably use this (just like you can use an MSD BTM) but because our timing is not computer controlled we don't really know WHAT we are adjusting. so it would work, but you could never have a precision control over your timing.

without knowing the exact timing curve of the vac advance dizzy, and knowing that it is consistant, i would be hesitant to use this thing. especially if it has no way of knowing load. ie part throttle vs full throttle would probably merit different amount of timing modification. not sure it might have TPS input or MAP input, but still....

[AccordEpicenter]

i think you could probably use this (just like you can use an MSD BTM) but because our timing is not computer controlled we don't really know WHAT we are adjusting. so it would work, but you could never have a precision control over your timing.

without knowing the exact timing curve of the vac advance dizzy, and knowing that it is consistant, i would be hesitant to use this thing. especially if it has no way of knowing load. ie part throttle vs full throttle would probably merit different amount of timing modification. not sure it might have TPS input or MAP input, but still....

I installed and tuned all my shit by myself. I agree with chris, thats why i went obd1, the advance is erratic, but the btm did its job. Particularly, the area between boost and vac, i think the timing fluctuated more than a few degrees. Plus i have no idea if the boost induced more retard in the timing than i needed. Basically, the vaccum controlled dizzy is pretty unpredictable timing curve wise, especially when related to boost

[epic1400cs]

Thanks for you guys reply.
That make sense - in the ITC manual there are description on B18C, B16A and F22B but not A20A - I forgot that we have vac advance dizzy.

[MessyHonda]

lets hope that one guy can get us some obd1 plates

[Hauntd ca3]

think u would find that there will be a mechanical/centrifugal advance set up in the dizzy as well.
vacum advance reacts to load on the engine and mechanical/centrifugal controls advance for engine speed.
if you have access to a syncograph machine" fancy" word for a machine that you can spin the dizzy in and work both centrifugal and vacum and see how much each system changes the timing with speed and vacum. this way you can draw a graph for each advance mechanism.
the vacum advance cant really be changed but the centrifugal can by messing with diff bob weights and control springs.
best for something a specialist to do.
but dont muck with the curves unless you have changed the compression ratio.
the base setting is alright to muck with but not more than a couple degrees advance over factory

[2oodoor]

think u would find that there will be a mechanical/centrifugal advance set up in the dizzy as well.
vacum advance reacts to load on the engine and mechanical/centrifugal controls advance for engine speed.
if you have access to a syncograph machine" fancy" word for a machine that you can spin the dizzy in and work both centrifugal and vacum and see how much each system changes the timing with speed and vacum. this way you can draw a graph for each advance mechanism.
the vacum advance cant really be changed but the centrifugal can by messing with diff bob weights and control springs.
best for something a specialist to do.
but dont muck with the curves unless you have changed the compression ratio.
the base setting is alright to muck with but not more than a couple degrees advance over factory

I am sitting here wondering what is problem with knowing what a distributor is doing..?? There are a couple of ways, one is an advancing timing light that shows your advance curve/rpm, they have been out for decades\ and the other way is the syncograph or otherwise known as the Sun Distributer tester-set up machine - that one has been out since the sixtys. (good luck finding one these days, they may be in a museum or a dirt track racers garage) True both of those may require some insight and skills to use, considering you can't really use those to determine engine load.. you would need a map of the MAP.. LOL
In regards to the apexi s-afc/s-itc, if you had a schematic or original documentation maybe you could use is with a crank reference signal or possibly use the diizzy as cam ref signal?

[bobafett]

like mentioned before. i see know reason why you couldn't install it, and have it perform it's duties... but it just might not be that effective, since you dont REALLY know what you are changing.

we can use BTM, so we can use this, its the same device, one is triggered by vac/boost, and the other is programmed manually and has rpm (at least) as an input.

[Hauntd ca3]

I am sitting here wondering what is problem with knowing what a distributor is doing..?? There are a couple of ways, one is an advancing timing light that shows your advance curve/rpm, they have been out for decades\ and the other way is the syncograph or otherwise known as the Sun Distributer tester-set up machine - that one has been out since the sixtys. (good luck finding one these days, they may be in a museum or a dirt track racers garage) True both of those may require some insight and skills to use, considering you can't really use those to determine engine load.. you would need a map of the MAP.. LOL
In regards to the apexi s-afc/s-itc, if you had a schematic or original documentation maybe you could use is with a crank reference signal or possibly use the diizzy as cam ref signal?

yeah it is a mish to find the old sun dizzy machine bit thay are out there.
the cool thing is you can vary the vacum to the vac advance diaphram to approximate load v revs. if you can find someone that has one and knows how to use it properly, they are an invaluable tool when fuckin with advance curves.
you can see what its doin with out runnin your engine and potentcially stuffing your motor . a motor thats detonating thru to much advance will die before you know whats happening.
and no one wants to rebuild a motor they spent heaps on eh.
if you can take vacum reading with the engine running at diff loads and throttle openings on a dyno, you can aproximate these speeds and vacum conditions on the syncograph.
if you can find an old school tuner, chances are they'l have one and know how to use it.
from my own experiance from 15 years of playin with cars, the old guys are the best.
they spent years doin this typ of stuff on the old chevs,fords and mopars to know just what to do.
the new guys spend there time with dizzyless set up doin it with a lap top and aftermarket ecu's, half them dont know how to regraph a dizzy.
i've watched new guys take on the oldies and get soundly whooped when it comes to tunig a car.
the oldies have seen it all eh

[2oodoor]

dam et haunted ca3 now im an old guy
I was right in the middle of the generation that had to learn efi, ccc, diesels and carbs to keep a job.
Now some of this aftermarket electronics I am not completley schooled on so I lurk around those..

[Hauntd ca3]

dam et haunted ca3 now im an old guy
I was right in the middle of the generation that had to learn efi, ccc, diesels and carbs to keep a job.
Now some of this aftermarket electronics I am not completley schooled on so I lurk around those..

lol i'm from the age of carbs to dude.
am mid thrirties
grew up workin on jags,minis,vauxhalls,datsuns you gat the idea
i still prefer carb and points ign but the nature of being a mechanic means need to know a bit of everything
especially bein a country garage
I spend all my time on diesil utes/mini trucks. toyota tundra etc
efi didnt do anything for me until nissan done a turbo efi bluebird racer in the mid eighties
and the gtr skyline in the nineties
just gotta move with the time and keep old things like our 3geez as hobbies
shit, even diesils have more complicated management systems these days eh