Hmm... I think I will just buy a header and downpipe. How wil this help where the RPM's stop??
Hmm... I think I will just buy a header and downpipe. How wil this help where the RPM's stop??
Originally Posted by Bass Man
what do you mean?....our engines only rev to like 7k rpm before they start loosing power.
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
Right... I want to have power left at 7K as mine falls on it's face at 5300...
well I noticed that a 2.25 mandrel bent exhaust helps. My car doesn't seem to really lose power until around 6k or a little further. I tend to shift before then cause I'm afraid of destroying a 20 year old motor. lol. I've also noticed with the weber on it that it's really rev happy. I'll gun it flat out, the tach just wraps itself out. I've had it hit 6 or 6.5k without even blinking. And it was still pulling hard.
Lostforawhile:we have to pick on him he's CAH he spray painted himself into this corner with the accord.
headers help a bit....my top end smooth out when i installed my headers.
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
Sweet... sounds like something to save for...
a wild ass cam will help that
Last edited by gfrg88; 04-10-2008 at 09:32 PM.
Stock engines aren't capable of revving that hi they will go to 7k but younot getting much power and you'll only rev that high in first 3 gears. More often than not it's quicker to shift earlier and use the torque curve to accelerate quicker than ringing the last 1000rpm out the poor engine before changing!!!
If you want an engine that peaks at 7000rpm you need to have headwork, headers, camshaft, and exhaust your not going to get power that high with just headers and exhaust not in all gears anyways. Best test is if you can pull cleanly in 4th gear to 7000rpm at a reasonable rate then you have a good engine that is putting down good numbers but you'll be shelling out alot to be able to do this. And for longevity of the block you really need rods and forged pistons for continual use at 7-7500rpm or the stock rods will break after 20-30k miles worth of use.
o also get a new compute that has been chiped o and if jesse still has the map sensors get one from him and i could tell a diffrence in throttle response
took a whole year but i got the 100th post
yet only took a month to get the 200th
Dec. 05-Dec. 06
Hell of a responce! Thanks rjudgey!
I don't intend on going to 7k regularly. I just want to be able to have steady power to 7k, or even 6.5k for that matter.
Can I send any cam in to have mild or wild re-grinds done, or the bigger the cam goes in, the bigger the cam come back? I think with the stock carb, the 89 LXI cam with the intake springs would be about as much as I would want for the top end without taking the head off.
If i were you i'd get some Bike carbs on there or even think about a A18 head swap and retro fit two largish bike carns=bs onto it, or alternatively get a weber conversion done, only way your going to get there stock carb is POS. Cam wise you don't need to go crazy anything between 260-270 degrees will do go with Colt or Delta i think are companies that do a half decent job, i think web cams do a couple of choices which maybe better, To be honest the heads on A20 don't need a lot of work so taking it off to do work to it isn't a major issue it just helps it later on having the headwork done.
If i were you i'd look at header, system, then look into maybe putting your welding skills to use and making up an inlet manifold for some large bike carbs combined with mild cam would esily get you upto 160bhp and pull easily to 7000rpm. Most difficult part is finding a Bike carb tuner to tune the carbs for your car but shouldn't be that hard.
My dad is big into Harleys, so he might be able to help me if I go that way... How much work is involved on the intake manifold??
There's a reason why vtec was invented.. To the o.p, keep learning. rjudgey, estimating dyno results from quater mile times/trap speeds..? Not second guessing you exactly, just want to see a couple dyno plots. You're talking about power in the area of a fairly heavily modified b20 vtec or gsr out of an a20, so forgive my curiosity/skepticism.
I wish I could have V-tec... I really wish....
Go here
http://www.myspace.com/rjudgey
Have a look at the pics and the vids section reason why i do 1.4 miles testing (santapod has state of the art timing systems as well best in world) is because it's real world what does a dyno tell you diddly squat your not getting realistic drag factors and air resistance being taken into account all it does is roughly work out your bhp as you have to take into account transmission loss from gearbox and wheels and tyres and it varies from dyno to dyno as they are all out of calibration or setup differently it's all a load of bullshit the only one in my area thats 100% accurate is an engine out job or one that bolts onto the hubs but needs half a day setting it up and calibrating and quite frankly i'm not wasting $300 just to tell me i have a quick car when i can spend $30 on the drag strip and prove it for real. Contrary to your belief 1/4 is very accurate why of wokring out power adn how fast your car is, with accurate weight and air resistance figures you can just as precisely if not more accurately work out true whp better than most dynos.
So please stop giving me grief you name one person who has put my ideas into practice from here and preludepower who has not had a benefit and then giving me bad feedback!! Well i'll tell you not one and trust me i've helped a lot of old school 3g;s and 2nd gen lude owners out and they are all appreciative of my help and advice, i've had so many people ask me to do heads and engines for them my emails are constantly filling up all the time, i've even had people visit me from Canada to say thanks for my help. So if you wnat to know how to make a fast 3G or 2nd gen lude with either an ET engine or an A or B20A series then i suggest you start listening to what i have to say more. Or i could just keep quiet and keep all my ideas to myself but as i'm not like that i don't everytime i come up with a cracking new idea to get more power i share it with you guy's free of charge now i don't remember Sean being quite so forth coming now who else do you know who came up with the idea of converting your exhaust valves into big arse inlet valves for a huge increase in flow on the heads hmmm me who gave great detail and in depth guide on how to do it repeatedly hmmm me. Now i know of a few people who have done this and none have had any issues and only reported it as successfull. Now i'm not one to build engines and spend tens of thousands on parts i've allways tried to build the best engines to the lowest cost constantly pushing the stock parts to there limits 2 years ago i reached those limits and have since been trying to save up so that i can put together the ulltimate A20/ET1 build where using custom forged pistons to my own crown design, titanium rods and custom titanium pins to match aren't cheap, had custom valves made to great expense as well as welding to the ports on heads to get the perfect port shape. Yes there are certain things i could do but involves great cost but i choose to guestimate or do the best i can without using the equipment or the workshops that have them as i know majority of people here and even myself can't afford to build a race engine thats gong to cost more than a few grand to put together.
So have a look at the pics an vid in particular the drag vids of the car one such is me keeping inline with a 300ZX twin turbo now if i had anything less than 200bhp this wouldn't be happening, also the little green car was lighter than mine as it's French, had a 2.0l DOHC 16 valve engine freashly built to race specs and Twin 45 dellorto's so on paper he should have beat me but i didn't do his head so he didn't!! The vid of the speedo clip is with 2nd gen lude carbed box which has very tall gears you can see it pulling very well in 3rd upto 7k rpm at a speed of around 100mph 4th gear going upto around 130mph. Now this was an engine that had about 180bhp was the test engine for the big valve conversion which used an A18 head on A20A1 sepc block yes thats Lower CR ratio, the later engine which had an ET bloack to A20A1 specs had an ET1 head with much nicer ports than A18 head equal spacing and also had a really short manifold now this engine instead of dying out at 7krpm like the vid on myspace with exactly the same cams and ironically stock size valves this sucker pushed upto 7500rpm and had nearly 200bhp was easily 15-20bhp more than the A18/A20 hybrid with big valves, now the thing i never got to try was the big valve conversion onto the ET1 i'm sure it would have been mental but the modded stock rods in the ET1 had enough after 30k miles of test driving and they totaled the block fortinately not the head apart from bending most the valves was the only damage. I never got to get any vids of the speedo on that one but the vid of the race track going down across the straight and the drag racing vids are with that engine.
So have a look at my web page if your not on myspace then join if not well sorry you can go to cardomain but no vids are on there just loads of pics.
P.S. theres no Vtec in race engines, and oh wasn't Vtec invented for old grannies so that they could drive there cars to the shops more easily!! On a Vtec engine used for high output use or race use what do they do with Vtec??? Hmmmm they stick it in the bin!!!!!!! Yes thats right all high end Vtec engines end up with Vtec disabled or kicking in much earlier than factory settings. So enough of the learning ridicule get real yourself you've taken the easy why slap a turbo on it i've been squeezing N/A power out of these engines longer than you've been driving so i think i've learnt tad more than you give me credit for.
Vtec was designed so that people could drive their cars easier at low speeds and for better fuel economy it was not designed for how power engine output. Personally i like my car behaving like a mule and sounding like a scalded cat gives it character driving around in a Vtec is like pushing a shopping trolley Fing boring.
Shame were not vaguely close i bet my webered A20 would have a lot of fun beating your turbo cars not only do you have to worry about boost adn lg, but the sudden spike in torque makes for interesting handling, Hell i bet you'd have a job getting past my Diesel!!
Bass man if your old man has access to carbs for bikes and knows someone who can tune them this is your best bet, all you need to do is make a flange this can be done by using your old inlet gasket as a template then just get some tubing and weld them to the falnge the carb neds only have to be round as the rubber mounts slide onto those, obvsiouly they have to be the same diameter to fit and you'd have to carefully crush and shape the other end to mactch the oval ports on your head but can be done, have a look on my myspace page has an A20 inlet manifodl on it give you some idea. But with bike carbs you won't wish you had Vtec once you here them start up and rev you'll be saying see you later vtec as you go pass em!!! Come on the carbs you know it makes sense!! If you got the welding then this is what i would definately be doing, all you need is to uprate your fuel pump and add FPR onto the fuel line and bosh on teh carbs job done.
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!!!!
calm down guys.... rjudgey, you knw your shit about n/a... accordtheory, you know your shit when it comes to turbo... so calm down guys.. now give each other a hug
Lol @ gfrg88
rjudgey! That is a great contribute to this thread, and I appreciate it. But I need some more info.
Like what carbs are usable in this??
This is something that A20A1 did with the intake:
I'd say it is a good idea...
But I could just build my own manifold.
Thanks a lot for the help.
You have loads of options any carb will work a carb is a carb you put fuel to it and a throttle cable and it works simple as, just find the biggest bike carbs you can get, you can go something similar as A20A1 and just use to fat harley carbs thats another option or you could use a Weber DCOE 50/55 is another option but as bike carbs are cheaper thats the way to go really, you may need to be a bit inventive with teh linkages for two bike carbs but nothing that you can handle with a bit of welding and some rods. If your going for a twin carb setup just get as big a bore as you can ideally something around 40-45mm to start with and then as you progress you may need either two more carbs or go with two more that are bigger e.g. 50-55mm bore size if you can get them that big for harleys??? The biggest i know are 40mm off a Honda Firebalde sports bike with a 1000cc engine so look for carbs that are off highly tuned sports bikes or large cc Harleys that are tuned a bit.
Sweet... I guess I will start searching around for some carbs.
The Bore was what I was looking for.
Last edited by Bass Man; 04-12-2008 at 11:27 AM.
Ifyou can go for some newer types or aftermarket ones they'll be more tuneable this is maybe where your oldman can hlpe out with more don't get anything too old looking and coroded be too much hassle also check inside to make sure they are not full of dried up fuel or they won't work properly dried fuel is impossible to clean out even with sonic cleaning is very difficult.
should there be any play in the valve springs on an a20a1?
Play in the valve springs?? There should be well over 15-20lbs of force on the valves with the rocker completely off of it... If you can push the valve open with your hand, that isn't right.
Are you talking about play between the rocker and the valve??
i can move the rocker on 2 of my exaust valves, i just tried to tighten it with a ratchet but it didn't work
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