How do you know when to replace rear drum brake shoes?

[BITESIZE]

When I want to check the rear drum brakes, I will put the car in reverse and slam on the brakes, and do this about 2 or 3 times. Then I will drive down the road and pull the ebrake slowly while going about 25 mph. If the car slows down without making noise, you are golden.



Just pull the wheel and drum and look at the drum and shoes. You will get an idea if they need changing.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

ugh...thumping is back.

parking brake is still tight and braking in general still feels tight...I'm wondering now if I may have some glazed spots on my shoes. Gonna check that out...need to find some pictures.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok, now i feel like we're starting to chase ghosts.

Are we sure that the thumping is coming from the rear? If so, are we sure the upper control arm ball-joints are still in great shape, and the bushing at the rear of the control arm?

As long as we get a checkmark on each of those items, I would flush out the brake lines. Just make sure your master stays topped off, and just open the bleeder on all corners, one at a time, and bleed flush out at least a small bottle of brake fluid, which effectively flushes out the whole system. (Have a friend help you out with this unless you want to spend the extra $25 and replace all four bleeders with speed-bleeders (available at basically any auto-parts store.))

After this, I would make sure that your wheel cylinder is still good. Those are peanuts, and should be in stock at damn near every auto-parts store.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Are we sure that the thumping is coming from the rear? If so, are we sure the upper control arm ball-joints are still in great shape, and the bushing at the rear of the control arm?

Yes, definitely coming from the back. The joints and bushings look 20years old, but there is no noticeable movement (i yanked the crap out of both sides while the wheels were off).

As long as we get a checkmark on each of those items, I would flush out the brake lines. Just make sure your master stays topped off, and just open the bleeder on all corners, one at a time, and bleed flush out at least a small bottle of brake fluid, which effectively flushes out the whole system. (Have a friend help you out with this unless you want to spend the extra $25 and replace all four bleeders with speed-bleeders (available at basically any auto-parts store.))

After this, I would make sure that your wheel cylinder is still good. Those are peanuts, and should be in stock at damn near every auto-parts store.

bleed and then wheel cylinder. I can probably knock both of those out this weekend. I'll also take some close ups of the shoes and post them up here.

thanks!

[OptimusPrimeSr]

ok...lol...what a day.

I got everything ready to bleed my rear brakes...
- had the rear end on jack stands
- had the rear wheel removed
- had my bleeder tube and bottle ready to roll
- had my 8mm wrench on the bleeder bolt
- had my fiancee in the drivers seat
- had the drum off the rear passenger wheel
- WAIT WHAT!?!?!

yeah...for some fucking reason I had the drum off the rear passenger wheel. So my lady starts pumping and I am letting it flow on the drivers side rear wheel...then I hear a thunk on the rear passenger side wheel. When I walked over, the wheel cylinder was extended all the way out on one side. FUCK. I was pissed...I didn't have much time today and was planning on being in and out within an hour. So I'm investigating the wheel cylinder and I try loosening the bolts on the back to get some wiggle room (at this point I'm still not sure if this cylinder is salvageable). Well on of the bolts snaps off with the nut and that makes the decision of whether or not to replace the cylinders real EZ!


So anyways, long story short, I replaced the wheel cylinders on both sides and bled the brakes. Just got back from my test drive and so far so good. going to take it out for a little longer later tonight and make sure all is well.

argh.

if the thumping persists, I'm going to scrap it all and replaced the shoes and springs...and if that doesn't work I'm going to set the car on fire and roll it down the hill into a lake of loud children in restaurants.

[Oldblueaccord]

I would still look at the rear upper link. If its non-greaseable it only last about 2-3 years before it developes play in the joint. Grabing the wheel at the 12 and 6 o clock posistion you should be able to wiggle the tire and see the joint move.

As far as popping the wheel cylinders well it happens to the best of us.


https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65015


wp

[markmdz89hatch]

like wp says, the wheel cylinder woes happens to us all, and I'm a member of this club too.

Don't fret if you get a thunking still because if you were driving on a bad wheel cyl, there's a chance that the drum is out of round already. ...and the shoe faces may have cracked, but doubtfully.

As for the upper ball joint, i'm with wp on that too. Especially if the wheel cyl is bad, and was cause of the clunk, then I would definitely say the ball-joint hath shittith the bed.

[2oodoor]

wow I never heard that expression before now Ive read it twice in one day, I hope I dont get hooked on it, sht the bed?

anyway, I used an angle drill and very very very carefully drilled into the top cap of the rear ball joints and installed zert fittings to greez em up. The carefull part is not getting drill shavings inside the joint, and not drilling too far. This will tigheten them up some and clear out some noise, still if there is too much wiggle in them by all means replace them.

Is the strut on that side in good condition? A weak strut will dive when the brake is applied, sometimes this could make the suspension contact the exhaust if it is close anyway. You've been dealing with this long enough I hope you already distinguished if it is an action and not a reaction of the brake on that side.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

so far so good with regards to the thumping being gone -- brakes are responsive and quiet which is a nice change. I'm still holding out for more test miles before I declare my rear braking issues solved.

Now,

I would still look at the rear upper link. If its non-greaseable it only last about 2-3 years before it developes play in the joint. Grabing the wheel at the 12 and 6 o clock posistion you should be able to wiggle the tire and see the joint move.

As for the upper ball joint, i'm with wp on that too. Especially if the wheel cyl is bad, and was cause of the clunk, then I would definitely say the ball-joint hath shittith the bed.

I'm going to have all four corners looked at by my local mechanic...I'm fairly certain a lot of that stuff needs to be replaced, but I don't have the time, knowledge, tools, etc etc to do this myself.

The upper joints on all 4 corners look like (if not worse) than this picture from wp's post.

Is the strut on that side in good condition? A weak strut will dive when the brake is applied, sometimes this could make the suspension contact the exhaust if it is close anyway. You've been dealing with this long enough I hope you already distinguished if it is an action and not a reaction of the brake on that side.

Well I'm fairly certain this is a case of action and not reaction to the braking. My only real evidence is the fact that I would hear the thumping when braking from super slow speeds which (in my mind) would eliminate the suspension coming into play. Is that an incorrect assumption?

Is this the strut (part #3 -- S/ABS UNIT, RR) ?

[markmdz89hatch]

yes, the strut (also called damper, shock, etc) is #3.

As for the pic you posted, is that what your rear upper control arm looks like? If so, sell it to me because I want an adjustable one. (that's an aftermarket adjustable upper)

...but either way, that boot looks pretty well shot. You can see where the boot folds and looks like it's splitting at the fold too. If yours has split, even if there's grease still in there, it won't be for too much longer, and either way it's now contaminated with sand, etc so that'll only help cause the thing to fail even faster.

They're fairly inexpensive to buy new ball-joints, or even a replacement arm, and definitely worth the expense if it avoids failure of it while driving.

[Oldblueaccord]

You could do the rear your self. Its those 2 bolts to the body the nut on the end of the joint and either a pickle fork or a well placed blow on the arm (not the link) with a good sized hammer and its apart. Way easier then a rear brake job.

Write up on the adjustable links!


https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48440

Link to the vendor I use there alot out there

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...t.html#Ingalls

paint them or get them powerdercoated they rust quick.


wp

[markmdz89hatch]

for removal, the only thing I'll use anymore is a pitman arm puller, or a ball-joint separator.

The damn fork has trashed way too many boots for me, so I'm not a fan of it. Not to mention the fact that with either tool above, there's no need to swing a hammer. I've whacked too many a fender accidentally from aggravation with the damn hammer too.

http://www.autozone.com/in_our_store...pitman_arm.htm

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TA-61900.html

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah good point pickle forks will trash the boot but hes putting on a new so there the quickest and most fool proof way to take it apart.


wp

[OptimusPrimeSr]

quick update: I'm considering this brake issue resolved. I really appreciate everyone's help/advice/input.

[markmdz89hatch]

good to hear that everything appears to be running well on your car now.

Don't get discouraged when working on these cars. They're not new anymore, and usually fixing one thing will lead to bringing 95 other problems to light, of which will just need to be addressed accordingly.

Bottom line, despite any minor maintenance issues associated with these cars, they're great dependable cars that have damn near bulletproof motors.

Word to the wise on the tranny's (although it may or may not pertain to you), the auto's basically have a self-destruct expiration of 200K.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

good to hear that everything appears to be running well on your car now.

Don't get discouraged when working on these cars. They're not new anymore, and usually fixing one thing will lead to bringing 95 other problems to light, of which will just need to be addressed accordingly.

Bottom line, despite any minor maintenance issues associated with these cars, they're great dependable cars that have damn near bulletproof motors.

Word to the wise on the tranny's (although it may or may not pertain to you), the auto's basically have a self-destruct expiration of 200K.

yeah, I love my 3g and baby it on the road. it is very dependable and i take pride driving a 21 yr old car that gets better gas mileage than 80% of vehicles on the road. also, I could never imagine having a car payment...blahhhh...those are for the uninformed.

re: tranny problems...
yeah, that seemed to be the case with the CB7s as well. Had a 91 ex auto that was totaled (dec2007) around 225k miles when some cellphone-talking-ahole ran me off the road. I was just beginning to have tranny problems and thought that I may have solved it with an updated TCU...unfortunately I'll never know. Luckily, my 3g is a manual