Advice on partial rebuild...

[Caleb]

Hi, new to the forums.

I aquired an 89 LXi a couple months ago and it recently started leaking oil around the head gasket.

I'm prepared to do the work myself, and have spoken briefly to a machine shop about the head work.

What I need to know is what exactly I should do other than simply getting the head inspected/repaired. I'm not looking forward to doing the job, but since I don't have a choice, I want to do it all right the first time, as I don't plan on diving into this motor for a long time if it can be helped.

A little extra performance would be nice...

So... should I have anything done with the cam? Bigger valves?

I am willing to throw down a little extra cash, but not to the point I start running into diminishing returns. I'm also already planning on new plugs, wires, yanking the PS, AC, and gutting the cat.

Is a standard gasket set desirable, or should I look into metallic gaskets like Cometic's. I have no plans for forced induction.

Needless to say I'm a little lost here.


Thanks in advance!

[Pico]

you could have the head ported and polished, bore the block out.
Camshaft on the mild side run a 272 grind if you want

[cygnus x-1]

It's leaking oil around the head gasket? Are you sure it's not really from the valve cover gasket and just dripping down the side of the head? Ther are only like 2 or 3 small passages where oil even goes through he head gasket. It would be unusual to have an oil leak there. Valve cover gaskets VERY commonly leak oil though. On my car it tends to leak around the distributor, but the oil collects around the edge of the head gasket and also where the serial# stamp is. Try replacing the valve cover gasket first. They're cheap and pretty easy to do.

For performance, in addition to what you already mentioned, a header/catback exhaust and a reground cam would help a lot. Try either Delta or Colt for cams. You will most likely need to send in a cam core for a regrind. Best bet is to grab one from a junkyard so you can just swap it when it's ready. Pacesetter is about the only option for headers these days; unless you can find a DC or S&S on fleabay or something. Bigger valves would help a lot but that's getting in to some real money. At that point you really want to start thinking about rebuilding the bottom end too.

C|

[Caleb]

I guess I should give a little more info about the car.

It's got about 130k-ish miles, has been well cared for (picked it up from offthahook), auto trans, and no mods at all performance wise. Only thing I've been working on thus far has been resoldering points inside the HVAC controls, and replacing the bulbs with LEDs (there are LEDs right next to bulbs on the same PCB... wtf?)

The engine hasn't overheated at all, and only recently has seemed to lose power at takeoff, and idle just a tad rough (barely there, but still there)

I'm really only concerned with bottom end... I don't race, and I don't have a lead foot... but if it could "pull" a little, and feel stronger, it would be a blast to drive around town.

What all can be done without requiring ECU modification? I'm not against chipping the ECU, and I'm capable of it, but actually tuning it scares me a little and I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Maybe down the road, but I don't want to start a "domino effect" of mods just so my car is still drivable.

Edit: The valve cover, oddly enough, is clean all around. I know what you mean about the valve cover, and it's the first thing I looked at. It's definately coming from the head gasket, on the front passenger side corner of the head. Luckily no coolant in the oil as far as I can tell, and the only smoke I get is from oil burning off the block. No overheating either, and the oil that has leaked out is fresh and brown... no baked on black nastiness.

[russiankid]

Is this coming leak on the distributor side? If so, make sure the distributor o-ring isn't leak, it will leak oil down to that area and make you think its the headgasket.

If the leak is on the belt side of the engine, pull the upper portion of the timing belt cover off and check that the valve cover isn't leak there, and that the camshaft oil seal isn't leaking.

[Caleb]

I'll give it another inspection tomorrow morning.

I'll probably just make sure it's all wiped down nice and clean, then let the car idle for a bit and see where it accumulates. It's not gushing or anything, but I have had to keep tabs on my oil level.

Truthfully though, I am almost prepared to do this work anyhow if for nothing else than piece of mind. It is an old car, and if I have my way, it'll be the last one I own for many many years to come. It really bothers me to think of all the things that *could* be wrong, just due to age, that just haven't manifested themselves through visible/performance means.

I got a quote from a machine shop for $350 for standard fare and a port job.

I have no idea what block work would be as I haven't even considered it yet.

[nswst8]

At 130,000 this engine has just started to break itself in. I wouldn't do anything to it except fix the oil leaks which are usually pretty easy on these engine.

Seriously, the engine is probably fine do a compression check first, coolant for rust, oil contamination, and oil for coolant contamination. Open the radiator cap while engine is warming up see if any bubbles are present in the radiator.

[Pico]

I spent under $1000.00 to have a rebuild on my head and to have the block done.

[cygnus x-1]

I'm really only concerned with bottom end... I don't race, and I don't have a lead foot... but if it could "pull" a little, and feel stronger, it would be a blast to drive around town.

What all can be done without requiring ECU modification? I'm not against chipping the ECU, and I'm capable of it, but actually tuning it scares me a little and I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Maybe down the road, but I don't want to start a "domino effect" of mods just so my car is still drivable.

Edit: The valve cover, oddly enough, is clean all around. I know what you mean about the valve cover, and it's the first thing I looked at. It's definately coming from the head gasket, on the front passenger side corner of the head. Luckily no coolant in the oil as far as I can tell, and the only smoke I get is from oil burning off the block. No overheating either, and the oil that has leaked out is fresh and brown... no baked on black nastiness.

A mild cam will help the bottom end and not require retuning. Same goes for a header. The best thing you can do for the head is to get a good 3 or 5 angle valve job. The ports don't really need that much work as most of the restriction is around the valves. None of these things will make the car undriveable without retuning. You probably won't get the maximum benefit that you could get out of these mods but it will still be faster than stock.

That oil collecting on the corner of the head is almost certainly from the distributor. This is EXACTLY what was happening to me. First check all the distributor mounting bolts to make sure they're tight, including the two clamp bolts on top. If that doesn't fix it then try replacing the distributor O-ring. Then if it's still leaking, redo the valve cover gasket and put a dab of RTV in the corners of the valve cover gasket where the flat part meets the curved part of the distributor clamp. This one is tricky. It took me a year to finally get this one straightened out.

And before you do any serious work it's a good idea to do a compression test to gauge the overall health of the engine. Chances are though it's just fine.

C|

[Caleb]

I appreciate all the feedback from you guys.

I gave it another look today, and did everything cygnus suggested. Haven't had a chance to get out and drive it but time will tell if that fixed the problem.

I may still end up doing the head and cam, but if this fixed the leak, I can wait a while and take care of other things.

Really, though... I appreciate all the responses. Of all the car forums I've been a member of, this is probably the first time I got real help, and not just a bunch of snotty replies.

It's my first Honda, and I've decided to try and get another. A 3g or earlier Accord if possible.

[nswst8]

Just try searching first, then if you have trouble locating something then just ask.

Welcome aboard.

[russiankid]

Hope it was the distributor o-ring. Only issues that I have encountered with these cars are oil leaks. After you fix them, its a pleasure to drive and not worry about oil leaking out onto pretty white driveways.

[Civic Accord Honda]

Is this coming leak on the distributor side? If so, make sure the distributor o-ring isn't leak, it will leak oil down to that area and make you think its the headgasket.

If the leak is on the belt side of the engine, pull the upper portion of the timing belt cover off and check that the valve cover isn't leak there, and that the camshaft oil seal isn't leaking.

word
my dizzy o ring was leaking ages ago and i thout the HG was blown but it was just the o ring ( i later did blow a head gasket and used some of that bars leak block seal and it worked great)

[Caleb]

Car started belching bluish white smoke from the exaust today. I think I blinded people for miles. Won't idle properly, motor is running hot as hell, and the fans kick on 5 seconds after a cold start.

A bit odd as my fluid levels are straight, no cross-contamination of the fluids is visible, and no leaks other than the tiny oil leak mentioned previously. Temp gauge reads normal, but it's obviously wrong.

So... out of a car at the moment. Seriously considering pulling this motor, and just swapping.

Thoughts?

[nswst8]

Car started belching bluish white smoke from the exaust today. I think I blinded people for miles. Won't idle properly, motor is running hot as hell, and the fans kick on 5 seconds after a cold start.

A bit odd as my fluid levels are straight, no cross-contamination of the fluids is visible, and no leaks other than the tiny oil leak mentioned previously. Temp gauge reads normal, but it's obviously wrong.

So... out of a car at the moment. Seriously considering pulling this motor, and just swapping.

Thoughts?

Bluish smoke indicate valve stem seal leak.

Fans on, Do you have you a/c engage? Both fans come when a/c engaged.

Or just could be bad temp sensor, easy fix.

But its your call.

[Caleb]

Well, all of this behavior happened in an instant. The smoke is so heavy and thick that it fogs up the road for a mile.

Something I should add that was a red flag for me, but I couldn't do anything about really, was the fact that when I changed my plugs they were corroded all to hell... had to break my back getting #2 out... rust galore.

The plugs upon inspection looked like someone dipped them in old motor oil and rolled them in sand at the side of the road. The gaps were packed with this junk... and the wires came apart when I pulled the boots off... I didn't even pull hard at all, they just crumbled.

The transmission dipstick is missing as well (yes, I know where to look... it's gone.) , and looking inside the valve cover reveals all sorts of black, caked-on, gunk.

This engine's had a hard life I'm guessing. I know offthahook took care of a lot on this car, but it ran *alright* and he never got into the motor.

I'm amazed it ran at all with the state of the ignition system.

Edit: No AC on this car... the compressor has no belt, and the switch is never used. I got a nice burn just by touching the throttle body. Crazy hot.

[russiankid]

Sounds like the engine needs a rebuild. The gunk as you described is not good. From what I know, this gunk is caused by overdo oil changes and or using cheap oil.

[nswst8]

Now that you come forth with this new info on the conditions we didn't know about. Then yes its time for you to rebuild or replace engine.

Good luck

[markmdz89hatch]

yep, she's doneski. time for a new motor. the head might be salvageable as well as the rest of all the goodies. In which case, a short block might work. I would first look for a fairly low mileage, or just plain clean motor at the j/y or your local classifieds or craigslist. chances are you can find one complete for pretty cheap. good luck.

[Caleb]

Anyone have a breakway/exploded view of the A20? Looking for one to photoshop, and relabel with torque specs.

Might sound silly, but I'm thinking I could find that useful.

[cygnus x-1]

Anyone have a breakway/exploded view of the A20? Looking for one to photoshop, and relabel with torque specs.

Might sound silly, but I'm thinking I could find that useful.

Go here:
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/honda_parts.php

Put in the info for your car and what parts you want. It will show a diagram and a list of parts with numbers and prices. You can save the pictures for printing later and also copy the text from the tables. It will take some monkeying around but it's easy to do.

C|

[Caleb]

Go here:
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/honda_parts.php

Put in the info for your car and what parts you want. It will show a diagram and a list of parts with numbers and prices. You can save the pictures for printing later and also copy the text from the tables. It will take some monkeying around but it's easy to do.

C|

Thanks a bunch.

If a mod wants to kill this thread, feel free... if I need anything else I'll start a new one rather than drag this one on.

[russiankid]

For torque specs download the shop manual at this website.
http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html