i know exactly what your getting at, its like using a motor powering a generator to spin that motor again and trying to power a light off it aswell.
we going to try anyway. no harm done in trying
i know exactly what your getting at, its like using a motor powering a generator to spin that motor again and trying to power a light off it aswell.
we going to try anyway. no harm done in trying
Fool. Do you really think that you're going to be able to outsmart the rest of the world. Not to mention,with some improvised bullshit you just pulled out of your ass without any understanding of physics, or basic laws of science?
To establish credibility for myself, not like I give a fuck, but I was of of the first people to tubo their 3g, and then one of the 1st people to swap in a b series with my own fabricated mounts/harness/etc. I've also built engines, turbosystems, etc. So I've put my time in on this site, and can talk shit freely now, if so desired.
I also have a lot of backround info on a lot of other shit, including in electronics, and general science.
Basically, your attitude is what's wrong with people's bullshit about "water powered cars", etc. They don't know shit, so they don't know to question.
How many watts is one horsepower? What is a horsepower? What is a watt? What is a volt? What is an ampere? I bet you know not one of those. Yet you're willing to put this bullshit on here? Lokk this shit up wikipedia or something, wtf.
What the fuck is the conversion efficiency of the alternator itself. You think energy is "free"?? You think the iacv doesn't open more when you turn on your headlights, defrost, stereo, or a/c? I bet you don't even know what the the iacv is.
What is the conversion efficiency of the most efficient process of converting h20 to hho? Whatever the fuck hho is anyway. Regardless, even if the conversion efficiency was 100%, guess what, the efficiency of burning that Again in your motor is only about 20%. That's right. Burn the gas, waste it, burn it again, waste more! imagine that. Only a further reduction in efficiency. What I can't imagine is the attitude of people who don't know shit and yet think they can contribute to a scientific field. I just don't get it.
You want to advance the field, Learn!!! Water cars. Only fucking retards who don't know shit (And don't want to learn) have a chance at being sold on that.
Educate yourself, please!!! Don't be one of those people!
Ultra high energy density capacitors + fuel cells + electric motors= the future.
Fuck it.
If something sounds like complete bullshit, guess what, it is!
Last edited by Accordtheory; 08-03-2008 at 11:28 AM. Reason: calling him numbnuts was a bit extreme..my bad
Build your system, then dyno the car. Any gain will show as a gain in power, not a loss.
Now, if we wanted to look into water injection for fuel economy, then we have something most of us can agree on. You'd be injecting water in place of a small percentage of fuel. You're not burning every bit of fuel you push through your injectors. Some of that is used to lower the combustion temp. Water has the same effect, when used in exact amounts.
The problem is we're talking about water as fuel, not water as a displacement for fuel.
Guys your mis applying the law of Thermo dynamics here. Think of HHO gas as adding Nitrious to a car. It makes more power. There is nothing free about it but it does make your engine output higher.
How it makes more power is more then an interest to me then anything.
Gemini just be careful the gas is very explosive and be wary of shorts with the power wires I would have them fused.
If it were me I would just buy a small tank of H gas and try it that way before messing with the electrolysis on car.
The setup I am fimiliar with is that set of plans you get off the internet that has a float to stop the reaction and keeps the gas under some pressure.
wp
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
I think what he's saying is he wants a net gain of energy,if you are using the energy in the car to convert to another form of energy that takes power and it creates loss in the process. so impossible. if you were to bottle hydrogen and then add it you could increase power, but the energy to make that hydrogen has to come from somewhere,so theres no gain. also i WOULD NOT be screwing with hydrogen trying to make power with junkyard parts. you can be killed. it has no odor and it's invisible, and it has the highest energy of any gas. in other words it can kill you. My dad worked for year for linde air industrial gasses,so i learned a lot about hydrogen. even a small amount can cause a huge explosion. as far as this hho or whatever,thats not even a real term, it's made up, it's hydrogen plain and simple. if you break down water you get hydrogen and oxygen.not a combination of the two. if they were combined it would be h20 which is water. there is no such thing as hh20. think of it this way,even a small amount of hydrogen around your battery and a spark can blow it to bits. now drive around with an uncrashworthy tank of this shit in your car, sound like fun? the hydrogen cars on the road today are supposed to have tanks that can survive a crash, i'm waiting to see how popular they are after the first tank rupture in a crash. they would make a gas explosion look like a match in comparison.
Oh my god, i just watched the news story about the guy who says he can burn salt water. and the news anchor is all excited,whoop de do. he puts a beaker of salt water in a huge ass microwave generator, then lights off the vaporized calcium salts. ooooo the water burns. nice magic trick. but it takes a huge microwave generator that weighs thousands of pounds and takes god knows how much current, and people are all amazed the water burns!!! it's the answer to all our problems!! this is why we rate so low in the world in science. people in this country will believe anything.
^if he managed to make it into a small device, i would think he would disappear off the face of this earth
hehe when i read that i thought of this:Originally Posted by Accordtheory
heres another idiot,dam this country is full of first grade science flunkiesHELLO!! MAGNETISM AND ELECTRICITY can't be seperated,they are the same thing dumbass. and there is no HHO despite what a lot of brain dead people think. electrolysis produces two seprate gasses, hydrogen and oxygen, they don't combine themselves into some other gas. just like they float around in the atmosphere as two seperate gasses. who comes up with this shit. this thread is getting funnyWater Powered Car and HHO?
I was interested in looking at the claims for the water power car.
I found something new had indeed been discovered. We have been taught that chemical bonds are a result of electostatic forces.
HHO is a magnicule,represented by the structure (H × H)–O . The spinning electon around each of the H's (protons) creates a miniscule magnetic field. These electrons are spinning in opposite directions creating, in effect two minature bar magnets aligned with opposing (attracting) poles.
This magnetic bond is much weaker than an electrostatic one allowing for easy decomposition. HHO burns readily producing a very hot flame.
HHO is created in a process of electrolysis.
As for claims that water powered cars are possible, this is only partially true. Hybrids burning both HHO and fuel at the same time do allow for greater fuel ecconomy. This is primarly because it's possible to run the car on a weaker mixture. It also produces a cleaner exhaust.
The process of electrolysis and burning of HHO is shown in the clip that I found. It seems to show that the process is very efficient.
ive been following HHO suff pretty closely, a guy on youtube who is documenting everything( Zerofossilfuel) its very interesting that by electrolysis you can use as fuel. However still thermodynamics comes into play and so does conservation of energy so there has to be a trade off to this( either exothermic heat is generated , you cant get more energy out of a system than you put in). From what ive seen this guy uses a sodium hydroxide/water bath with a plate block and about 10 volts. im actually considering trying to build a HHO generator and see if i can use it to run say a leaf blower or small RC car engine
it's hydrogen not hho,thats whats burning,when you break down water it becomes hydrogen and oxygen, if it had two hydrogen atoms it actually would be radioactive. just be very careful a hydrogen leak can cause a huge explosion. enough to blind you or severely burn you. i'm waiting for someone on here to get hurt, not stuff you want to play with. i hope no one does,but i have the feeling it's going to happen. also when hydrogen is burning it's invisible, you can't see it,
Last edited by lostforawhile; 08-03-2008 at 08:04 AM.
just so you know how dangerous the hydrogen gas you are playing with is, go to this page and look at this battery explosion, it's just a small amount of hydrogen that blew this battery to bits. http://www.rayvaughan.com/battery_safety.htm
I can't break my thought pattern that if I can cause less draw (or the same) in total from my system then my high powered stereo currently pulls and get a decent fuel economy boost, I would do it hands down.
I don't pretend to know anything! I have stated that many times that I am an amateur and anyone here thinking I'm talking truth and believes me blindly is a fool.
I am being careful.
I'm still going to try all my experiments. I need to prove it to myself.
Last edited by Gemini2003; 08-03-2008 at 09:14 AM.
Birthdays are good for you!! Statistics show that the people who have the most live the longest.
"Prove" it on paper, Not with your car. Show us the math here. Every part of each equation will show a net energy loss. Damn, you are a stubborn, stubborn person.
I'm now going to look up the hp of running a motor on hydrogen vs gasoline. I strongly suspect that's bullshit too. Most gasses cause in reduction in hp, since they displace more 02 than the liquid fuel to get the right a/f ratio.
Actually, the reason more accessories like power steering pumps, a/c compressors, etc aren't driven by electricity is the modern car's absolutely retarded 12volt electrical system. That might have been acceptable in the '60s, but it's 2008 now, wtf.
Check it out. Say you need 5 hp to run the a/c system. If I remember correctly, 1hp is about 740 watts. So 3700/13.8=268 amps. Trying to move that much amperage requires incredibly thick wiring, to not incur significant power loss through the wire itself. Even 48+volt electrical system isn't really enough to run most of the more power hungry accessories.
You guys watch, I'm going to kill this whole thread.
Not true, sorry, dude. The 2 things are completely different, and "hho" doesn't add power at all. Nitrous, N20, is an oxidizer. Look it up on wikipedia, the combustion temp breaks the bonds between the N and O, and then the O recombines with the HC as a more exothermic reaction.
Putting hydrogen into your combustion chamber only displaces air, since it takes up more space than the liquid gasoline, you end up displacing available oxygen and losing power. I just read about 10 articles to confirm this on yahoo. It's about 15% less, supposedly. And at stoichiometric the hydrogen car emits more oxides of nitrogen than a gasoline car, wtf. So they don't even tune hydrogen internal combustion motors to run anywhere near stoich, and take a hell of a lot bigger power hit than 15%. Nice, huh?
I run E85 in my DX!
Thread is stupid.
88 DX hatch.
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
[/QUOTE]
I still think the direct exaust injection i the way to go, uses zero fuel and produces no emissions.
Very true. I think the biggest reason is stubborness by the car manufacturers. Going to higher voltages can save money in the long run by using less copper.
Thanks for catching me on something, it's good to be corrected sometimes, keeps the ego in check.
Oh, and HHO, as we're referring to, is a term referring to "Brown's gas," as can be seen here: http://www.brownsgas.com/brownsgashome.html
Last edited by Vanilla Sky; 08-03-2008 at 01:51 PM.
yeah the 42 volt standard is coming.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._21075825/pg_2
I posted something about it here in regards to this a few years ago
http://www.boosthead.com/product.php
But it went totally over some peoples (Smufguy) head. I think you will see more of these type setups.
wp
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
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