Timing Belt HELP

[zigzag]

i took my car to a mechanic to get my spark plugs chaced out cause the first and third holes were cross threaded.... he screwed up the second hole and it kept spitting out my plug.... as with some dick head mechanics refuses to fix his mistake and tries to blame me..... so in short i had to go out buy a new head then pay a friend of mine to swap it out.... i was furious.... it is all done now except the timing belt..... and what do you know the damn bolt wont come off the crankshaft pulley....

now my question is what is the best way of getting this bolt off.... and is this bolt reversed threaded by any chance? i am considering a high torque impact with a decent air compressor.... will this work well?

any help would be appreciated greatly. ive been almost 3 weeks without a car and i am tired of bumming rides off of everyone. thank you ^_^;;

-zigzag

[DBMaster]

You should do a search because this topic gets covered a lot. When I have done my TB I have gone to a local shop and slipped one of the mechanics $5 to take their high-powered pneumatic wrench to it. I then ask them to hand tighten it and drive right home. Then, once the car cools down it's easy to loosen the thing. Various methods I have seen on here include long breaker bars, wedging breaker bars against the floor and cranking the engine (I personally don't recommend that one), and of course impact wrenches. I did mine twice the way I have described and it was well worth the $5. The bolt is NOT reverse threaded, by the way. It has very fine threads and gets tightened to, I think, 106 ft-lbs so it's locked in there pretty good after 90-100K miles. Since the engine rotates counterclockwise you end up turning the engine rather than the bolt when you try to loosen it by hand.

[russiankid]

The A20 does not have a harmonic balancers, it is actually a belt tensioner. To get the bolt loose, I used a regular 12mm point wrench, but a 6 point is better. I put a cheater bar on the wrench and had someone push on the bolt up top so it doesn't snap as the bolt is fairly long. After you get it loose, replace it if possible. When tightening the bolt down, make sure its nice and tight but don't go ape shit on it.

Replace the belt with a quality belt and tensioner, such as Honda or Gates. You don't want to have a tensioner break or a belt snapping after all of this work.

The head could have been repaired without replacing it. The mechanic should know that a Heli coil kit is a simple fix that works.

[russiankid]

You should do a search because this topic gets covered a lot. When I have done my TB I have gone to a local shop and slipped one of the mechanics $5 to take their high-powered pneumatic wrench to it. I then ask them to hand tighten it and drive right home. Then, once the car cools down it's easy to loosen the thing. Various methods I have seen on here include long breaker bars, wedging breaker bars against the floor and cranking the engine (I personally don't recommend that one), and of course impact wrenches. I did mine twice the way I have described and it was well worth the $5. The bolt is NOT reverse threaded, by the way. It has very fine threads and gets tightened to, I think, 106 ft-lbs so it's locked in there pretty good after 90-100K miles. Since the engine rotates counterclockwise you end up turning the engine rather than the bolt when you try to loosen it by hand.

For some reason I thought he was referring to the timing belt tensioner. I slipped a mechanic $20 to undo my pulley bolt. He used his gas torch to heat it up and his impact gun.

[zigzag]

heli coil as i recall is only a temporary fix and over time will result in the same spitting out of the plug.

i edited my post cause i realized it was the pulley not the balancer.... i do have i think a 500 ft/lbs air hammer and i tend to get the damn thing off tonight ^_^;; as far as getting new replacement parts that is a no go considering i have no money at this point in time and wont have any in a few days if i dont get my car running soon so i can get my ass to work. would you think that is enough torque to get the bolt off faster than the engine will turn?

[Dr_Snooz]

Harbor Freight has a red impact gun called "Earthquake" that is lord and master of all crankshaft pulley bolts.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=2623

I can't recommend it enough. My brother liked mine so well he bought one of his own.

[cygnus x-1]

If you have an impact gun use it. That's the easiest way.

C|

[zigzag]

if i had $100 to spare i would but the one i borrowed might have enough torque to do what i need.... hopefully anyways.... if not then ill be walking to work verry soon....

[nswst8]

Heat the bolt spray some penetrating lube (PB Blaster) on it. Spin it off.

Remember this any impact gun is only as good as its air supply.

A 1.5 hp 3gal tank will not provide enough air.

[zigzag]

i bought a 380 ft/lbs air hammer and it wouldn't take it off.... i don't have any heat supply and i think i have some wd40 but that shit eats metal over time.... i have a mechanic and someone knowledgeable working on it tonight so hopefully them two can get it to work. its been a battle and the sun had burnt me to hell and back even with a canopy lol.... but at least it gave me a chance to replace the trans axle mounts (the last of my motor mounts) and the stabilizer bar bushings.

[lostforawhile]

heli coil as i recall is only a temporary fix and over time will result in the same spitting out of the plug.

i edited my post cause i realized it was the pulley not the balancer.... i do have i think a 500 ft/lbs air hammer and i tend to get the damn thing off tonight ^_^;; as far as getting new replacement parts that is a no go considering i have no money at this point in time and wont have any in a few days if i dont get my car running soon so i can get my ass to work. would you think that is enough torque to get the bolt off faster than the engine will turn?

a helicoil is not a temporary fix,i's an accepted permanent way to repair threads. if your mechanic was so stupid that he couldn't even chase a thread, a helicoil was probably way beyond his mental capacity anyway.

[Dr_Snooz]

Heat the bolt spray some penetrating lube (PB Blaster) on it. Spin it off.

Remember this any impact gun is only as good as its air supply.

A 1.5 hp 3gal tank will not provide enough air.

To the contrary, I run it with a tiny pancake compressor. The beauty of the gun is that you only need a split second to get the bolt off.

if i had $100 to spare i would

Sorry. It sounded from your first post like this was an option. Most of the time, I just slip an impact socket extension into the timing hole to keep the drive plate from moving while I use a breaker bar on the bolt. That always works real well, unless a gorilla at the shop put it on with a bazooka. Then I get the Eathquake gun.

[zigzag]

a helicoil is not a temporary fix,i's an accepted permanent way to repair threads. if your mechanic was so stupid that he couldn't even chase a thread, a helicoil was probably way beyond his mental capacity anyway.

yes a heli coil is a good fix for THREADS but the heli coil was mostly meant for early jets to fix the problem of bolts vibrating loose.... the heli coil provided a solution.... there is no compression involved in fixing threads for a good fixed lock on bolts.... over time the compression in the cylinder will push the coil out.... do some research.. i did thats why i bought a used head from a junk yard. for $150 i couldnt beat it considering other places wanted $300-$500.

[greentee76]

yes a heli coil is a good fix for THREADS but the heli coil was mostly meant for early jets to fix the problem of bolts vibrating loose.... the heli coil provided a solution.... there is no compression involved in fixing threads for a good fixed lock on bolts.... over time the compression in the cylinder will push the coil out.... do some research.. i did thats why i bought a used head from a junk yard. for $150 i couldnt beat it considering other places wanted $300-$500.

Not wanting to start a fight here but a properly installed helicoil will likely outlast the life of the car(even for those of us here that intend to keep them forever.)
It would at very least have gotten more life out odf the head.

As to the pulley bolt I believe I used a 1/2" drivve impact gun to remove mine.

[russiankid]

heli coil as i recall is only a temporary fix and over time will result in the same spitting out of the plug.

i edited my post cause i realized it was the pulley not the balancer.... i do have i think a 500 ft/lbs air hammer and i tend to get the damn thing off tonight ^_^;; as far as getting new replacement parts that is a no go considering i have no money at this point in time and wont have any in a few days if i dont get my car running soon so i can get my ass to work. would you think that is enough torque to get the bolt off faster than the engine will turn?

Heli coil is not temporary. My brother Heli coiled his spark plug in his BMW a year ago and its fine ever since(knock on wood).

Here is an example of a heli coil that will not handle pressure.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...il_14x1.25.jpg

Here is one that will.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA230_.jpg

[lostforawhile]

yes a heli coil is a good fix for THREADS but the heli coil was mostly meant for early jets to fix the problem of bolts vibrating loose.... the heli coil provided a solution.... there is no compression involved in fixing threads for a good fixed lock on bolts.... over time the compression in the cylinder will push the coil out.... do some research.. i did thats why i bought a used head from a junk yard. for $150 i couldnt beat it considering other places wanted $300-$500.

I would like you to explain how a helicoil is going to get pushed out? you are drilling and tapping a hole oversize,a helicoil is a threaded insert, it is screwed in. the stainless steel of the coil is much stronger then the original aluminum threads of the original spark plug holes. I would like to know how it's going to get PUSHED OUT? if that was the case every car on the road would have the spark plugs all pushed out. You seem to not know much about machining and threads if you made the statement that you did research and still came up with that . it's also common practice on race engines to helicoil every single thread that is under a lot of load on the engine.

[lostforawhile]

yes a heli coil is a good fix for THREADS

what the hell do you think holds the spark plug in? glue? and saying these are just for old jets is crazy, they are used all the time on a lot of things, just get the genuine ones not the chinese made crap ones.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

Just to add my $.02 to the helicoil debate:

Helicoil has become the accepted reference to a thread repair. As my bro (russiankid) mentioned, there are different thread repair solutions. When I repaired stripped spark plug threads in my BMW, I used a kit manufactured by helicoil. It was not a coil however, it was an insert. Solid metal with internal and external threads. It will not leak and it will not pull out because the contact surface of the threads is actually larger in the head after replacement. FYI, inserts are used not only in spark plugs but also for things like cylinder block repairs where head bolts have pulled out of the block. Inserts are used because the repair is stronger than the original threads. Here's the kit I used over a year ago:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...egoryCode=3482

[cygnus x-1]

i bought a 380 ft/lbs air hammer and it wouldn't take it off.... i don't have any heat supply and i think i have some wd40 but that shit eats metal over time.... i have a mechanic and someone knowledgeable working on it tonight so hopefully them two can get it to work. its been a battle and the sun had burnt me to hell and back even with a canopy lol.... but at least it gave me a chance to replace the trans axle mounts (the last of my motor mounts) and the stabilizer bar bushings.

One thing I found about those crank bolts. Use the shortest extension you can get away with. Even better is a deep well socket. Then when you blast it with the gun, push on the gun like your trying to push the socket farther on to the bolt. This keeps the socket from vibrating around on the bolt and puts more force into breaking it loose. I know this sounds bizarre but I discovered this when I was trying to pull a few junkyard pulleys for a project. The first several I tried just wouldn't come off. Then by accident I found that they would come off if I put some inward force on the gun. I was using a cordless impact with maybe 300lb-ft torque at best.

And WD40 does not eat metal. That's absurd.

C|

[88Accord-DX]

That crank bolt will be hard to get off without 3/4" breaker bar & cheater bar over it, sitting on top of a 4x4 block even with the bolt. Then you need someone to hold the flex-plate/ flywheel, while you torque on that cheater bar. Little bit of heat with a small propane torch on the end of the crank bolt help too. Good luck

With the heli-coil thing, the trick is not to let the shavings get down in the combustion chamber.

Now if you wanna talk impact drivers, one of the best on the market is the Ingersoll-Rand 2351 TI. It has 1,100 of nut busting torque. It'll run around $240 or so, but you need about 100 p.s.i. of air.

[zigzag]

then you guys have had success with the heli coil.... ive talked to 3 people and all have popped out.... and i know the spark plus are held by threads my point was.... ah fuck it dont care i bought the fucking head its installed it works the bolt came off the timing belt is on needs a little more adjustment.... sad thing is the radiator cracked and i have to get a new one....

@lostforawhile
try sounding a little less rude next time.... i tend to argue with with people who sound rude to me.... i live with one and if i could i would kick her ass out of this damn house.... and to top it off i live next door to a nosey rude know it all needless to say i avoid her at all costs.... sorry for arguing just been a really rough month and as far as i have heard from others not affiliated with this site they arnt a verry successful tool.... of course then maybe they them selfs didn't install them right.

[QUOTE}....the stainless steel of the coil is much stronger then the original aluminum threads of the original spark plug holes. I would like to know how it's going to get PUSHED OUT?....[/QUOTE]

my guess would be the only thing holding in the stainless steel coil is the aluminum head itself.... just cause you put in a stainless steel thread substitute doesn't make it bullet proof if your complaining about the aluminum threads.... so the new aluminum threads holding in the stainless steel threads doent sound any more successful than aluminum threads holding in the spark plug itself.... if any of what i said makes sense.


one guy said it lasted him 2 years before it finally blew out the plug again along with the coil.... i didnt want to take the chance of going 75 down a highway and the heli coil just blowing out my plug.... then i would have to go out and get a new head regardless. i would rather much just save myself the hassle.

[cygnus x-1]

my guess would be the only thing holding in the stainless steel coil is the aluminum head itself.... just cause you put in a stainless steel thread substitute doesn't make it bullet proof if your complaining about the aluminum threads.... so the new aluminum threads holding in the stainless steel threads doent sound any more successful than aluminum threads holding in the spark plug itself.... if any of what i said makes sense.

A helicoil should be stronger than the original thread because it has a larger outer diameter. Larger diameter threads have more surface area and therefore more holding force.

The thing with spark plugs and aluminum heads though is that they CANNOT BE OVER TORQUED. Even with a helicoil. Over torquing puts shear stress on the threads, and combined with the extra stress from compression can weaken the threads. Aluminum also tends to fatigue over time with repeated stress and release cycles so it may not happen right away. So pay attention to those torque settings and use anti-seize compound.

But beyond that, heads are (relatively) cheap and plentiful so it's not that big a deal.

C|

[Dr_Snooz]

i bought the head its installed it works the bolt came off the timing belt is on needs a little more adjustment....

Glad to hear everything worked out. How did you get the bolt off?

[zigzag]

Glad to hear everything worked out. How did you get the bolt off?

a big air compressor and an air hammer with over 500 ft/lbs.... as far as my dad and the guy working on it, they both said my car sounds 2X better even before the plugs holes were cross threaded dad said. here is a pic of my old head before we took it out to be swapped.



the only difference with the new one was that it had plastic sleeves between the rockers where there were no springs.... the old head didnt have them.... we thought it was weird but didnt think much of it.... degrease it and put it in after it dried.... looked like new :P

[zigzag]

well the radiator is on and i got to drive my car tonight :P right now there is a faint tapping sound but he said its a valve and to give it a few days.... if it keeps on he will find it and adjust the valve then adjust the timing belt a little more.... other than that is runs great. thanks for your help guys.