My Hoopty

[conozo]

A couple months ago, I did an oil change on the trunk.

Fixed

[Dr_Snooz]

[Hazwan]

I LOL'd but wow what a mess. At least your trunk floor won't rust now hahah

[Dr_Snooz]

Update on the hoopty. Following the rear disc swap, a number of the brake hard lines sprang leaks at the flare fittings around the prop valve. I fiddled and farted with them for awhile and only made everything worse by quite a bit. Then the canola oil incident happened, which pretty much broke my spirit, so I parked the car and gave up. It's been a yard ornament that I haven't touched for 4 years. It hasn't really bothered me because I need a pickup and 4x4 where I live and don't need the Red Car.

The engine bearings are a little battered from the canola oil, but nothing that a heavier grade of oil won't cure (I hope). The flare fittings have been the enigma I can't solve though. I don't know why they're leaking, and I don't know how to fix them. I'm not sure if the hard lines need to be replaced, or the prop valve, or both. The problem was isolated to the Red Car, which I don't really need, so I ignored it until today when the same thing happened on my Mom's '93 Accord. I replaced a torn rubber brake line last week and the stupid thing is doing the SAME THING!!! It's seeping right at the flare fitting. I tightened it, which only made it worse. I did a bunch of web searching that turned up nothing, so I was stuck with my own brain to figure it out.

Then I remembered that the leaking fitting rounded off when I went to first loosen it (yes, I did use a flare wrench but the steel nut is soft and flimsy). My backup plan in that case is to use a Vise Grips. The problem is that the clamping deforms the nut, which no longer seals properly. Thus the leaks.

That's my hypothesis at least. Has anyone else dealt with this? Any thoughts on this? If I replace the hard lines will that be enough or do I need to replace the prop valve too?

Thanks!

[Dr_Snooz]

I confirmed that replacing the hard lines fixes the weep on the '93. While I don't relish the thought of tearing apart the car to replace hard lines, it's nice to know that I don't need to replace prop valves, MCs, etc.

I also learned, to my chagrin, that the hard lines nuts are NOT 10mm. They are 3/8". A 10mm wrench like I've been using, is too sloppy and will round off the nuts. Duh.

[Dr_Snooz]

It may still seep. I can't really tell. Aaaaarrrrrgh!

I'm starting a new job tomorrow and it involves a commute to work in an office. The Red Car has sat for the last 4 years or so with zero attention while I drove heavy pickups, with trailers and lumber racks, and MPGs in the single digits. That's not a very good solution now. I tried jumping the Red Car a couple weeks ago, only to fail because the battery is too dead. The fuel system also sprang a leak near the regulator somewhere, which I ignored. I closed the hood and went back inside to watch TV. I tried again today, bypassing the battery, and to my amazement, the thing started right up! It started up and idled on 4 year old gas, with no special treatment of any kind. Even the bearings were quiet. The brakes are still facked and there's no coolant in the radiator for some reason now, but it ran. Even the fuel leak had corrected itself. Somehow. Wonders never cease.

Brace yourselves for a new chapter in the life of the Red Car, I guess. I might even have this thing back on the road in the next few months.

[Dr_Snooz]

Anyone have experience with aftermarket prop valves? I'm thinking of something like a Wilwood:



It would require some fanciness in re-running lines, but I have to do that anyway. Is it better to replace the hard lines entirely (pulling out the interior to do so), or just add on some extra line and use adapters to connect to the old?

[gp02a0083]

really depends on what and where the lines are damaged. ideally you would want to have the fewest interconnects and/or replace the entire line. as far as the rear lines, IIRc you can just remove the lower seat cushion to access the brake lines (least that's where they are on the hatchback)

[AWH]

I can't really answer your question but I really,really hope you will get RED back on track. I have been looking at it each post you put here and I was always sorry for your car as it is a beauty. I was hoping for a moment like this where you find the spirit again to get to it. Really,as an administrator on here you can't be without a (running and driving) 3G yourself ,now can you ?! So,get on with it and make us and more importantly,yourself, happy and bring back happy memories with more to make. Good luck.

[Dr_Snooz]

Thanks AWH.

The hard lines are facked right at the flare fittings on the prop valve. I don't what it is about old flare lines, but once I open them up, they never seal again. I end up replacing both the hard line and whatever it goes into to fix it. The lines are fine otherwise. There's no rust or anything. Just weepy seepy fittings. The temptation is to re-do the existing flares and then adapter extensions onto them, though that's pretty hillbilly. If I'm going to re-do them all from end to end, then I'm going to run them differently because the factory setup is wasteful. The lines run from the MC across the engine bay to the prop valve, then back across to the driver side front brake. So 3 lines do the work of one. Also, two separate lines run to the back brakes. With the Wilwood above, you mount the prop valve right next to the MC, so only one line goes across the engine bay. Additionally, only one line goes to the back and tees out back there. That's a much more rational setup.

Any recommendations for types of hard line to use? The factory lines are coated with a polymer of some kind. They have held up real well but I don't know where to find more like them.

[Oldblueaccord]

https://surrauto.com/brake/

Ez bend tubing.

Tubing | BrakeQuip I use this guys stuff since he is local to me. Tubing is expensive but very very easy to use.

[Dr_Snooz]

Thanks Old Blue!

My commute is 90 miles each day now. I did it with the truck for the first couple days and that was exasperating. I couldn't weave it through the traffic like the Honda. I drove the '93 today and that was a WHOLE lot better. The '93 is technically not my car, so I'm very motivated to get the Red Car running again.

I had hoped to keep this car bone stock, but given the total dearth of parts, I'm changing direction. I'm going in more of a hotrod direction where old systems are discarded entirely and new aftermarket systems substituted. That will be tricky with this car, given that Japanese cars are disdained by the hotrod aftermarket. Some creativity will be required. I'm not planning any major reconstruction, only to keep things running along. Where I run into major parts problems, I'll replace with aftermarket parts and systems as needed. The project will be further complicated by my grinding poverty so we'll see what actually happens.

[Dr_Snooz]

I had a chance to dig into this project yesterday. The car didn't want to start and I think the main relay has failed again. Once it cooled down, the car started right up and ran great. I drove it down the driveway for giggles and then moved it to flat ground where I can work.

Here are some photos for documentary purposes.







Yup. That's moss.





The locus of sorrow.

As I poked around, I noticed how all the vacuum lines are still pliable. All the wiring is still sheathed in protective wrap, and it's all still soft and flexible. None of the firewall grommets have fallen out, so there has been zero rodent infestation in the cabin. Mom came out to help me start the car at one point and said, "This interior is NICE! I think it's nicer than my ['93 Accord]." The '93 is an SE with leather interior that was replaced about 12 years ago. Mine is still the stock interior from 1989. The interior plastic is still moist and supple, for the most part. Some parts have dried out and started crumbling, but it's minimal. The HVAC doors all work. Soichiro really built a gem here.

To put that in context, my Suburban is also an '89. All the window seals are hard and crumbling away. The dash is cracked and chipping apart. The carpet is worn and ugly. The door panels have been replaced and the seats have been redone. The protective wrapping on the engine wiring has crumbled away and many of the wires are getting hard. The vac lines are hard, etc. The rodent infestation in this truck has been severe because of the poor quality firewall sealing. The HVAC doors still work, but they seal poorly, so the heat blows constantly.

Our cars are so remarkable. The trick is finding ways to keep them running.

After working on trucks for awhile, everything on this car looks so diminutive and tiny now. I didn't really mean to start tearing it apart, but one thing led to another and by the day's end I had removed the seats, peeled back the carpet and took out enough engine compartment stuff to give myself room to inspect the hard lines. Like everything else, they are in great shape. Like I stated before, they are coated with some kind of polymer, which I think is referred to as "PVF". It works really well and has kept them from corroding at all. The lines on my trucks, by contrast, are all corroded and stuck.

I really don't feel that the long lines to the back need to be replaced, so I'm probably going to re-flare them and adapter on the changes I intend to make in the front.

Anyway, that's the update for today. I need to order some parts now and get this car rolling again. Then comes all the registration and smog headache. California dropped a $400 registration fee bomb on me last week for my '09 truck. WTF?!?!?! Those parasites in Sacramento think they can piss away all their money, wreck the job market here, then come back and pick my pocket for more. Some stuff is going to happen here, and it won't be pretty if they keep this up.

[G. White]

I have always wondered what the status of your car has been for a long time. It has sat at 208k miles for as long as I can remember. We have essentially the same car with the only differences being window tint (or I would die in Az) a roof rack, and I'm lowered a bit. Similarities being the same Alpine head unit, and I had to use plywood in my trunk to replace the original particle board. There have been stints where I have not driven my car for long periods (6 months or more at a time). It amazing how these cars will fire right up after sitting untouched. I had my car in storage for a year while I was stationed in Korea. When I came back, I put a jump pack on the battery, fired it up and drove it to get an oil change. That same day I took it to the car wash and knocked the dust off of it. The next day I began my drive to South Carolina (2300 miles) for the next 4 days and had ZERO problems. A 25 year old car (at the time) that sat for a year rocked a near cross country trip.

This past year, I had to call on "The Little Honda" as it's affectionately called by my family to travel once a month to Utah and back (1400 miles round trip). With the exception of a leak in the power steering pressure line (which I took the belt off and drove around until replacing the hose) this little car has been money.

It's awesome to see you getting your car back on the road. I say this because you have shared your knowledge and helped countless people over the years. I also look forward to that 208k below the picture of your ride steadily increasing in the months and years to come.

Snooze, if you need anything, don't hesitate to ask....and good luck!

[Dr_Snooz]

Many thanks! Your car is looking a lot better than mine.

I noticed that my interior parts are showing signs of abrasion, so I've been researching 3d printing today. It'll be a learning curve, but it would be worth it to make replacements for the seat back handles that fall off, the vents on the door panels that crumble from UV, the chicken handle covers that fall off, the console that gets all banged up, and so forth.

Anyway, parts are on their way!

[Oldblueaccord]

The lines from the prop valve ti the car is there a break any place? I could see if I could get some. Made lines are nice.

Also there is that tube resto place they make everything for old cars. I bet if you sent them an old one they could copy it.

https://www.inlinetube.com/contact

[Dr_Snooz]

If you can't see my pics, install the "photobucket embed fix" Add-On in your Firefox browser. Or just tell me a better way if you've found one.

Well life happened this last week, as it does. I was sitting in my living room, minding my own business when I heard the sound of a car tumbling through the yard. When I made it outside, there wasn't a car, but a big chunk of my tree had fallen on the camper.





That limb was hanging directly over the camper, but fell to the side of it, by some miracle. Still it punched some holes in the roof of the camper and did some other minor damage. It could have pulverized it, though, so I'm happy it didn't. This tree needs to be removed, but that will cost nearly $1,000, so I guess I'll keep watching it fall down and fix whatever it flattens afterward.

The Red Car was next to the camper. The camper took the brunt of it, but the Red Car wasn't spared.



It's not as bad as it could be. There are some light scratches in the door but no damage otherwise.

[Dr_Snooz]

The paint is already failing in a couple places.





Anyway, I got the brake line today. It's PVF brake line, which is short for Polyvinyl Fluoride. It looks to be the same stuff that Honda used in the factory. I have all my parts now and will try to work on this tomorrow. Stay tuned for more.

[Dr_Snooz]

New prop valve is in.



I opted to keep it in the same place Honda put it because it won't fit anywhere else. I just can't outsmart those Honda engineers.



The lines look like an amateur did them, and they look even worse deeper down. They're an ugly tangle along the back of the engine bay, but no one will ever see them except me. I had visions of it looking factory when I was done. Sigh. Everything is back together now and the system seems to be leak-free so far. I need to get some crush washers to put the fuel filter back together, then I can test drive it. I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

[Dr_Snooz]

In my research, I stumbled upon this article: Brake Line Flares: Metric & SAE, Inverted & Bubble - Race & Track Driving (formerly Win HPDE) It describes how flares work and the subtle, but very important differences between metric and SAE flares. Our flare fittings appear to be metric. They definitely require a 10mm wrench to remove. However, those metric flare nuts are on SAE (3/16") hard lines. All the hardware I bought was SAE, but I was able to make it work. The metric flare nuts do not appear to thread into SAE seats. However, the SAE flare nuts do thread into, and seal, in the Honda OE seats (at least for now.....). Clear as mud, right?

I think I know what's going on with these seeping flare fittings. A flare fitting works by basically smooshing two pieces of metal together tight enough to seal. There's a limit to how many times you can smoosh and re-smoosh metal, of course. When you've reached the smoosh limit, the fittings will leak, no matter what. The lines that Honda uses are good. So good that I bought identical line to replace it. The flare nuts, however, are crap. They're some kind of pot metal junk that rounds off the instant you put a wrench to it. I bought stainless flare nuts and they seem to be quite good. Honda's flare seats in the prop valve are also pretty much crap. They deform and flatten out pretty easily. That doesn't matter when Honda builds the car, but when you swap out the valve during a rear disc swap, you're in for some difficulty afterward.

I wasn't confident that I could find another OE valve that would work, so I opted for an aftermarket valve. It's supposed to be adjustable and we'll see how well that works.

[Dr_Snooz]

It runs!!!! More importantly, it STOPS!!!! It's still the little go-kart I remember. I have a leaky fitting, but I think it just needs tightening. When that's done, I can clean it up and put it back together.

[B0CKS]

It runs!!!! More importantly, it STOPS!!!! It's still the little go-kart I remember. I have a leaky fitting, but I think it just needs tightening. When that's done, I can clean it up and put it back together.

No better feeling!! Congrats!!

[Honda#1]

That is awesome you got it going!

[Rendon LX-i]

nice brother. I like to see that thing back on the road. I like that prop valve. adjustment wise looks interesting. how it feel?

[Dr_Snooz]

I can't tell the difference really, but I haven't had a chance to do a lot of driving yet. The MC was empty when I went out the next morning, sooooooo I have some more work to do. The one fitting on my tee won't stop leaking.