power steering shudder

[vongiese]

Just replaced my leaking high pressure P/S hose cause it had a slight leak. Had the local hydraulic shop put a new hose on the original hard fittings. after that I beld the system by turning the steering wheel from stop to stop (like the manual says) while the wheels were on the ground. Now at idle and very low speeds when i turn the steering wheel i feel a little shudder or resistance in the wheel - more when turning right than left. I never ran the system low on fluid when it was leaking.
So what would be causing this? Could the pump be failing coincidentally at the same time?? Should I bleed the system when the wheels are off the ground?
Someone else had this problem when i was searching but their question was never answered.
any tips?

ps - I always use honda compatible p/s fluid!
thanks
mike

[nswst8]

Sounds like air in the system, what does the fluid look like? You might want to do a flush and fill. And check your p/s belt.

[vongiese]

I didn't flush it when I replaced the belt. just put in a couple bottles for fluid. I'll give that a try and bleed it again, but seems odd that a mix of old and new fluid would do this....
thanks
mike

[Oldblueaccord]

You may want to keep the front end off the ground while you run the steering back and forth with the engine running.


wp

[Blkblurr]

Your ps pump is most likely worn. Could also be air. Mine has never gone away since I replaced the hose but it was there before I replaced th hose as well. The shudder comes as a result of not getting enough oil to the rack while turning. Low flow or air can cause loss of oil in the rack.

[rfiks]

i just cut the ps belt on my 3g= torkee

[2oodoor]

i just cut the ps belt on my 3g= torkee

so you gonna introduce your self or what, you have das automobilio?

[nswst8]

You may want to keep the front end off the ground while you run the steering back and forth with the engine running.


wp

I agree with lifting tires off the ground to bleed the air out.

[Dr_Snooz]

Your pump is probably getting tired. Before you do much more, you should try bleeding and refilling the system. To drain, remove the lower hose on the fluid reservoir and put in a bucket as best you can. Then start the car and turn from lock to lock (a few times) to pump out all the old fluid. Stop the car, replace the hose and refill the reservoir with new fluid. Then start the car and turn from lock to lock (a few times). Refill the reservoir and purge again.

My pump was acting up until I changed my fluid per above. It works great now. I suspect that changing your high pressure line moved some crud around to block things up. I consider a PS fluid change a 15k mile maintenance item now.

Let us know how it turns out.

[greentee76]

Did you check to see if the belt is slipping? It's possible some fluid got on the belt or pulley during the hose change?
Not trying to pass judgement. It is sometimes the simplest things that we overlook ( I know I've been guilty )
Hope you get it worked through.

[vongiese]

Yup i double checked to make sure the belt was not slipping or anything.
So now I gotta go buy a half dozen little bottles of ps fluid(These take 1.8 quarts i hear). Sure wish i knew what that stuff REALLY is! Some folks says is a certain type of auto tranny fluid. Must be sumpin like that...that you could actually buy in a quart size....

must be crud that got in there - i'll fluch it out and see what's up.
Thanks guys
v

[Oldblueaccord]

You really only want to use the Honda fluid or the Bardyls Honda fluid. Anything else is almost certain trouble.


wp

[Demon1024]

i thought you tuned it side to side without hitting the stops?

[2oodoor]

somebody know what that stuff really is? is it some kind of synthetic Hydro fluid, I bet I could find something that works the same if I knew the generic grade. It still may not be cheap or easy to get though... hrmm but may be able to get it from heavy equipment parts.

[vongiese]

i thought you tuned it side to side without hitting the stops?

You know I read that somewhere too - maybe the chiltons or haines manual. But the honda manual says side to side all the way to the stops....

That fluid can't be THAT special can it?? Heck - they've been using it for quite a while. We need Mr. Honda to give up the details.... What about just plain ole hydro fluid? I wouldn't daretry anything else...unitl I find out what that stuff is.
v

[Dr_Snooz]

somebody know what that stuff really is? is it some kind of synthetic Hydro fluid, I bet I could find something that works the same if I knew the generic grade. It still may not be cheap or easy to get though... hrmm but may be able to get it from heavy equipment parts.

We probably should have a chemical engineer weigh in on this but my understanding is that Honda fluid uses a mineral oil base. Other fluids use something different, though I don't know what. A different base oil will eat the seals in the system and create leaks. I believe that VW uses a mineral based PS fluid also, but I wouldn't be the first to try their fluid in my Honda system. (Oddly enough, the MSDSes for both Honda and regular fluid list "Refined Petroleum Oils" as comprising 99% of the ingredients in the fluid so I really don't know what to think now).

[2oodoor]

I need to stay with this thread then because one my next steps on my project is putting the pump and hardware back on. Also the other car is leaking ps fluid and I put generic fluid back in it, will it explode with leaks now?
I certainly need to use the right thing in this other car.

[Oldblueaccord]

It does look like 10 wt hydraulic oil to me.



wp

[vongiese]

Local parts shop is out of honda ps fluid so i have to wait til tues to do the flush. I was looking in the manual and of course it gives great detial on tearing the pump apart as well as the control unit (part that the hydro lines go to on the Rack). Like Dr Snooz said i musta let some dirt into where i disconn the hardline - proly at the control unit. Hasn't been acting as bad today so am thinking that crud is working it's way out. Hope it doesn't score anything in the pump.
Also - looking at some parts on rock auto and they sell a p/s filter...it's a standard, add-on, in-line filter for the p/s line....
I suppose if anyone has never fluched your p/s line - you might think about it...just like anything else, brakes, antifreeze. Every couple years and that $*@&# will last forever.

v

[Demon1024]

I need to stay with this thread then because one my next steps on my project is putting the pump and hardware back on. Also the other car is leaking ps fluid and I put generic fluid back in it, will it explode with leaks now?
I certainly need to use the right thing in this other car.

it got my pump and vss first.....

[nfs480]

Your pump is probably getting tired. Before you do much more, you should try bleeding and refilling the system. To drain, remove the lower hose on the fluid reservoir and put in a bucket as best you can. Then start the car and turn from lock to lock (a few times) to pump out all the old fluid. Stop the car, replace the hose and refill the reservoir with new fluid. Then start the car and turn from lock to lock (a few times). Refill the reservoir and purge again.

My pump was acting up until I changed my fluid per above. It works great now. I suspect that changing your high pressure line moved some crud around to block things up. I consider a PS fluid change a 15k mile maintenance item now.

Let us know how it turns out.

My shop manual says to remove the upper hose from the reservoir because it's the return hose. Does it matter which hose is removed?

[Dr_Snooz]

My shop manual says to remove the upper hose from the reservoir because it's the return hose. Does it matter which hose is removed?

Oops. Yes, you're right. My bad. Drain by removing the upper hose.

While we're at it, be warned that as soon as the engine starts, PS fluid will come shooting out of that hose at full velocity. I jammed a drain hose into the return hose and put the end in a covered oil pan. I then set my toolbox on the drain hose to keep it from shooting out of the pan. (Unfortunately, I learned this after I shot PS fluid all over my car and the neighbor's car. He gave me quite a look when he came out and found me washing his car... )

[nfs480]

Oops. Yes, you're right. My bad. Drain by removing the upper hose.

While we're at it, be warned that as soon as the engine starts, PS fluid will come shooting out of that hose at full velocity. I jammed a drain hose into the return hose and put the end in a covered oil pan. I then set my toolbox on the drain hose to keep it from shooting out of the pan. (Unfortunately, I learned this after I shot PS fluid all over my car and the neighbor's car. He gave me quite a look when he came out and found me washing his car... )

lol