Lazy man's distributor overhaul (TEC distributor)

[G. White]

Offhand, I don't know how. But I do know that the procedure is outlined in the factory service manual.[/QUOTE]

Dizzy overhaul pages 778-779 in factory service manual.

[jdmaccordnut]

So does this work with Hitachi dizzies? How do I know which one I have?

[AC439]

I haven't posted for a long while here but this thread got my attention. So I just tried to do the same on my dist but with it on the car. No problems taking screws apart except the two that hold the vacuum base plate (where the yellow plastic ring/bearing are). Also, the tiny retaining clip of the vacuum advance popped right out when I was removing it and it ended up disappeared ! I figured that the vacuum will probable not going to dislodge so I just put it back together. Unable to get to the mechanical advance, I ended up spraying silicon lubrican through the few tiny holes into the mechanical advance. So, I'm hoping everything there will be lubed. Maybe if I have taken out the dist and put it on the bench, I may be able to get the last two screws out. Oh well.......

[DBMaster]

When I rebuilt mine I had the little advantage of having a Hi-Test rebuilt unit from eBay. I didn't want to install it on the car because it would have been the third one in three months and the second one almost left me stranded - the car died in my neighborhood on my way home one day. The first one wouldn't even send spark at all. They had at least cleaned up and lubed the advance plate bearing and used a brand new main bearing and shaft seal. The housing was acid cleaned and painted. I had to drill out one of the screws in my original because it was corroded firmly in place. The housing is aluminum so if you have to drill out a screw you can at least be able to find a replacement that will work. You can get a pack of assorted circlips in the "HELP" parts section of an auto parts place. One of the clips in the pack should fit the vacuum advance shaft. I don't think it will come off on its own either, but remember that the lenght of the VA shaft is adjustable by turning it so try not to change the length if you remove the VA from the distributor body. Of course, if you want to "play" with more or less advance that's an easy way to do it.

[G. White]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

[DBMaster]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

I wish I could tell you. The tach is wired to the coil. When one of the reman distributors I tried gave out whatever happened shorted out the coil, too. Maybe you need to also replace the coil?

[Dr_Snooz]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

That's the $64k question really. I know the lazy rebuild nearly eliminated most of that for me. It's creeping back, so I'll have to dig in again and see what's what. Like DB says, the tach runs off the coil but my coil checks out okay, so I don't know what to think.

An old-school mechanic heard mine starting one morning with the electrical cutout and all and he assured me it was the distributor. Because oiling up the advance mechanisms helped so much, I suspect having those gummed up causes a bad spark/coil misfire kinda thing, but I haven't verified it.

I'd give my eye teeth for a ICM troubleshooting procedure. The manual doesn't have one, so I might just see if I can extrapolate from my '93 manual.

[G. White]

That's the $64k question really. I know the lazy rebuild nearly eliminated most of that for me. It's creeping back, so I'll have to dig in again and see what's what. Like DB says, the tach runs off the coil but my coil checks out okay, so I don't know what to think.

An old-school mechanic heard mine starting one morning with the electrical cutout and all and he assured me it was the distributor. Because oiling up the advance mechanisms helped so much, I suspect having those gummed up causes a bad spark/coil misfire kinda thing, but I haven't verified it.

I'd give my eye teeth for a ICM troubleshooting procedure. The manual doesn't have one, so I might just see if I can extrapolate from my '93 manual.

I feel your pain, mine comes back every once in a while--but it's considerably better than it used to be. On occasion my car won't crank so I have to roll it a few inches then it is good. (Manual tranny)

I did a little wiring research and found that the pickup coil has a blue wire that passes through the ignitor unit and on to the coil----it passes through the coil and goes on to emission control unit, fuel cutoff relay, tachometer, and cruise control unit.

I also found this little nugget of info------
Note: The radio noise condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise however, condensor failure may cause the engine to stop running.

[Dr_Snooz]

I feel your pain, mine comes back every once in a while--but it's considerably better than it used to be. On occasion my car won't crank so I have to roll it a few inches then it is good. (Manual tranny)

I did a little wiring research and found that the pickup coil has a blue wire that passes through the ignitor unit and on to the coil----it passes through the coil and goes on to emission control unit, fuel cutoff relay, tachometer, and cruise control unit.

I also found this little nugget of info------
Note: The radio noise condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise however, condensor failure may cause the engine to stop running.

Well, if you figure it out, everyone here will owe you a six-pack.

Your non-start problem sounds like a bad starter to me. Possibly a buggered flywheel.

[jdmaccordnut]

How do you know if you have Hitachi or Tec?

[steveko]

The ignitor will be on the outside of the Tec.

[AC439]

This is an additional follow up to my previous post about fiddling around with the dist while it was still on the car.

Today, I finally got a chance to work on it again. So, I yanked it out from the car and put it on the bench. After some struggling, I was able to get the vacuum portion out of the dist and access the mechanical advance.

Instead of just dropping oil on it, I decided to take things apart so I could clean it completely. I first noticed the springs have stretched and they don't close the weight completely. I yanked out the shaft and found the grease inside has definitely turned into tar and it was very sticky. I cleaned everything well after I took them apart and then applied bearing grease over all the moving parts and put them back together. I briefly recompressed the springs and put them back in place. Checked all movements and then put the vacuum advance plate back inside the dist after lubed the yellow plastic bearing with 10w-30 oil. I bought a pack of assorted "E" clips from autozone but none of them would fit to replace the disappeared clip for the vacuum advance rod. I figured it would not likely come off so I put things back together onto the car.

Road test shows the car has regained low end torque and accelerates faster. The engine acts smooth and gives less engine noise.

I declare success although I have yet to replace the springs as well as need to get the replacement E-clips. I'm happy.

If anyone has experience about getting replacement springs, please let me know.

[DBMaster]

In another post somebody bought an advance curve kit. It is from "Mr. Gasket" and comes with various weights and springs for old GM distributors. I think he was able to use a pair of those springs as the kit comes with several pairs. The reman unit I used from Hi Test had new springs in it. Maybe they might tell you where they get them? 800-347-6999 is their number. I spoke with Terry several times and he seemed willing to share knowledge.

[G. White]

My problems came back.......... bouncing tach on startup, sounds like ignition is going to give up the ghost, blah blah blah. I swapped in an ICM that I "borrowed" from the wrecking yard a while back from a vehicle that had higher mileage than my own. I think it made the problem even worse. I would like to cut one of those open to see if it suffers from the same solder problems as our relays. I know those units are subjected to a lot of constant heat for years and years. I will probably have to man up and pay the $100.00 for a new one. If that doesn't work, I will swap the pickup/stator another 100 bones and see if that helps.

We will solve this scooby doo mystery!

[AC439]

In another post somebody bought an advance curve kit. It is from "Mr. Gasket" and comes with various weights and springs for old GM distributors. I think he was able to use a pair of those springs as the kit comes with several pairs. The reman unit I used from Hi Test had new springs in it. Maybe they might tell you where they get them? 800-347-6999 is their number. I spoke with Terry several times and he seemed willing to share knowledge.

Thanks. What I'm afraid of is the GM springs have a different spring constant therefore making the dist's mechanical advance properties different from original. But since the springs in my dist are stretched, I think anything new is better than the worn springs? I'm going to drive the car for a few more days. I think if everything goes well and my MPG stays up, I'm not going to act like a perfectionist on the springs.

[DBMaster]

I emailed the guy at Hi-Test. I proposed the idea of selling parts if he was not willing to share his source. We'll see if I get a response.

[AC439]

Thanks for checking that at Hi-Test.

Well, I have driven the car a little more and the MPG has dropped. I think I made a mistake by re-compressing the springs. Now the springs are tighter and definitely gives less advance at higher RPM. I have also noticed the pickup is not as brisk compare to the result after my first attempt to lube the mechanism. So, I'm going to disassembly it again in a few days and re-stretch the springs to the way they were before (hopefully).

-AC

p.s. BTW, when I checked the vacuum advance, I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will hold vacuum. Do I have a broken vacuum advance ?

[LX-incredible]

Thanks for checking that at Hi-Test.

Well, I have driven the car a little more and the MPG has dropped. I think I made a mistake by re-compressing the springs. Now the springs are tighter and definitely gives less advance at higher RPM. I have also noticed the pickup is not as brisk compare to the result after my first attempt to lube the mechanism. So, I'm going to disassembly it again in a few days and re-stretch the springs to the way they were before (hopefully).

-AC

p.s. BTW, when I checked the vacuum advance, I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will hold vacuum. Do I have a broken vacuum advance ?

These distributors have a 2 stage mechanical advance. The coarser spring needs to remain "stretched" for the advance to work properly.

I seriously doubt that they'll give you their secret chinese source, if they're even using new parts...

[Oldblueaccord]

Lighter springs should let the advance come in earlier then a heavy spring. I think its how far the weights move is the amount of advance.


wp

[AC439]

Yeah, I went back to the first picture and definitely saw the two springs are somewhat different. It seems like one has 5 turns and the other has 6 turns. They also look stretched. I think I mistakenly thought they have stretched over the years so I compressed them.

What about the vacuum advance? I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will somewhat hold a vacuum but with a leak. I think I have a broken vacuum advance, right? Also, I think I found a thread about buying the Honda vacuum advance on an online dealer for less than $40 but I can't find the thread anymore. It is definitely not Majestic Honda. I went to Majestic honda and they charge 5 bucks for handling and 13 bucks for shipping. So the whole vacuum comes to about the same as I buy locally from a dealer. I also found the vacuum advance listed on rockauto (model V330) for about $55. Has anyone use that from rockauto before?

Thanks.- AC

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, I went back to the first picture and definitely saw the two springs are somewhat different. It seems like one has 5 turns and the other has 6 turns. They also look stretched. I think I mistakenly thought they have stretched over the years so I compressed them.

What about the vacuum advance? I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will somewhat hold a vacuum but with a leak. I think I have a broken vacuum advance, right? Also, I think I found a thread about buying the Honda vacuum advance on an online dealer for less than $40 but I can't find the thread anymore. It is definitely not Majestic Honda. I went to Majestic honda and they charge 5 bucks for handling and 13 bucks for shipping. So the whole vacuum comes to about the same as I buy locally from a dealer. I also found the vacuum advance listed on rockauto (model V330) for about $55. Has anyone use that from rockauto before?

Thanks.- AC

It's bad. Take your vacuum pump to the junkyard and find one that still holds vac. That's your cheapest option.

[Dr_Snooz]

My problems came back.......... bouncing tach on startup, sounds like ignition is going to give up the ghost, blah blah blah. I swapped in an ICM that I "borrowed" from the wrecking yard a while back from a vehicle that had higher mileage than my own. I think it made the problem even worse. I would like to cut one of those open to see if it suffers from the same solder problems as our relays. I know those units are subjected to a lot of constant heat for years and years. I will probably have to man up and pay the $100.00 for a new one. If that doesn't work, I will swap the pickup/stator another 100 bones and see if that helps.

We will solve this scooby doo mystery!

I can't remember, did you check your vacuum advance diaphragm? It's holding vacuum right?

[DBMaster]

I know that at least one of the diagrams I saw showed two springs (one within the other) for each weight. My reman had only one spring per weight. Once I got into the guts of my original I noted that it also only used one spring per weight. I don't know what the new one I have in there now has. I have noticed no differences in acceleration, fuel economy, or smoothness with any of the units.

[LX-incredible]

Lighter springs should let the advance come in earlier then a heavy spring. I think its how far the weights move is the amount of advance.


wp

That is correct. Both weights move simultaneously. The lighter spring lets them out for the first stage, then the pins come in contact with the heavy spring. Try turning your rotor by hand and you will see what I mean.

[LX-incredible]

I know that at least one of the diagrams I saw showed two springs (one within the other) for each weight. My reman had only one spring per weight. Once I got into the guts of my original I noted that it also only used one spring per weight. I don't know what the new one I have in there now has. I have noticed no differences in acceleration, fuel economy, or smoothness with any of the units.

I've had quite a few of these apart and have never come across one with 2 per weight.