Overheating and i replaced everything.

[Dr_Snooz]

The fan still did not turn on and i beleive the hoses felt hard because the coolant was about to boil again.

i am trying to bleed the air from the system, but cant because it seems to not want to circulate now.

So I'm re-reading this thread and these two things jump out at me.

1. Your fans do not turn on when things get hot. Improperly working fans would sure cause a stopped car to overheat. You could have a bad thermosensor or a bad fan motor (a long shot is your fan blades could be sheared off at the motor, it happened to me), possibly the radiator is bunged and the thermosensor is not getting good coolant flow so isn't signaling properly. Maybe one of our wiring experts could suggest potential components that might need replacing.

2. You can't bleed the system because the coolant isn't flowing. That screams restriction to me. I'll return to the flush. I know that you've checked the flow of various components individually, but have you checked the flow of the entire system after it's all put together with the t-stat out? I would do that.

Finally, it sounds like this is an intermittent thing, so that would suggest an electrical malfunction. I'd take a hard look at the fans and assorted relays, sensors and switches that run them. Also check the resistance on those fans. Make sure they are working well.

Keep us posted.

[MessyHonda]

sometimes the radiator gets clogged...i used a lazer thermometer to see if the radiator has an even distribution of heat...you dont want it to variate more than like 50f in any spot

[conozo]

Heres what i found today.

I put the water pump back on and took the thermostat off. Filled the fluid up and started the car and warmed it up. I followed the same instruction https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66456 as before still no luck.

Results
-All radiator hoses felt hot
-Radiator was evenly distributing heat from top to bottom and side to side
-When i ran the engine fast the coolant level would drop for a few seconds then would raise/overflow if i kept the engine running fast or if i let it idle again.
-First time i turned off the engine there was no overflow after the engine stopped.
-Second time i turned off the engine there was a overflow for several seconds as described before where i would loose half of my coolant.
-It seems that the longer the car is on the worse these problems are, even if its already warmed up mostly.

I really think i have a head gasket leak, but i still cannot test for it since the coolant keeps overflowing. Is there any other way to test for a head gasket leak thats not super expensive.

I have a video of it overflowing when the car is off. Heres the video, you have to download it first since it will lag (28MB) http://honda.conozo.com/pics_3geez/e...- overflow.avi

[Hauntd ca3]

do a leak down test.
you7'd get bubbles in the radiator if the gasket has gone between the cylinder and water jacket.
also a good way of find out how the rings etc are sealing after 20 years of use

[conozo]

do a leak down test.
you7'd get bubbles in the radiator if the gasket has gone between the cylinder and water jacket.
also a good way of find out how the rings etc are sealing after 20 years of use

i didnt know there was a leak down test, but i did some research and it looks like i can really see the health of my engine along with a compression test. So i will do a compression test first then a leak down test.

Hopefully i can prove that my engine sucks, so that i can have a few words with the shop who just "rebuilt" my engine

[88Accord-DX]

On a couple engines with a small anti-freeze leak through the head gasket, I was able to pull the spark plugs out & shine a small flashlight down into the combustion chamber & see the leak. Also, after you pull the spark plug you might be able to see that the plug is wet. You may also smell the anti-freeze on the one that leaks.
A leak down test works good too, make sure the cylinder your testing is at it's TDC point with all valves closed. Leak testers aren't cheap depending on the quality.
Compression test is ok on finding a coolant leak, just harder to detect on real small minuscule leaks.

[w261w261]

More to my post (#19). I had a small head gasket leak in an '85 Volvo, which pumped up the system in the same way you describe. Since I had nothing to lose, I bought a can of Moroso, which worked exactly as promised. Be advised that to use it, you have to flush (REALLY FLUSH) the cooling system, as the presence of anti-freeze will not allow the product to work. It's a lot better than getting into a whole disassembly process, IMO. Last I heard, the Volvo is still sailing along.

Moroso is a well-used, respected product. Look at the company behind it.

http://moroso.com/catalog/categorydi...?catcode=22005

[Oldblueaccord]

If they claim its rebuilt I wonder if they used the wrong head gasket or it slipped a little and is blocking the coolant ports. Also using straight water will cause coolant ports to bridge over. I had a port on my 318 block that was completly bridged over. I had to use a hammer and a punch to knock the slug out.

I think you have done all you can with it. Maybe force the fans on 100% of the time by pulling the ac fuse and running the ac on fan speed one or hot wiring them to see if you can use it without over heating it.


wp

[Dr_Snooz]

I have a video of it overflowing when the car is off. Heres the video, you have to download it first since it will lag (28MB) http://honda.conozo.com/pics_3geez/e...- overflow.avi

That surge looks like backflow from a blockage, once the water pump stops pushing against it.

Sorry. Don't mean to beat a dead horse.



Edit: Forget it. Do the head gasket. At least when you replace it, you'll pull off enough stuff to find your blockage.

...I hope.

[conozo]

Still havent figured out exactly what is going on with it. But i am pretty sure its the head gasket (i dont know what else it could possibly be). I fired it up a couple weeks ago and drove it around for a minute or two just because i HAD to drive it. Don't worry, i didnt overheat it.

I haven't started it up in a few months and when i cranked it, it started right away. Took me by surprise since its carbed, old fuel, sitting for months, and was just cold outside.

I'm still debating on fixing it myself (scares me) or having the shop fix it since its under warranty, but then i risk the chance of them screwing something else up.

[Pico]

do the work yourself, if your a little mechanically inclined you should have no problems.
Just dont get cheap on the parts you need.
Did you ever do the leak down test?
I know how frustrating it is to pin point the overheating problem. Im going thru the same problem with my Legend and cannot find the reason why.

[conozo]

Couldn't do the leakdown test, cost too much to purchase and no place rents them, or even knows what they are.

[Hauntd ca3]

if its under warranty, make them check it out.
at least do a comp and leak down to rule out or diagnose a head gasket.
And you do run 50/50 antifreeze to water coolant mix?
running straight water will cause boiling and over heating way earlier than 50/50 mix.
also whip the rad out and take it to a rad specialist and det it flushed and pressure tested.
should only cost 30 or 40 dollars and they'll do a far better job than you ever could at home

[xxxfrankensteinxxx]

so do your fans turn on when you said you can hear it boiling?

[conozo]

So i finally had the shop look at it. I didn't want to since they screwed up everything else. They did fix it, the problem was so stupid and they were so stupid for what they did. The problem was that the main radiator hoses were switched. Thats what was causing the fan not to come one since it was cooled down by the time it got to the thermosensor.

I know i did take off everything to look at it after it overheated a couple times, but i put it back the way they did, not thinking that they would have put the hoses on wrong. I just cant believe that it was like this for so long without any major problems especially since i drove from indiana to arizona and up pikes peak then another 5000 miles after that trip before i finally stopped driving it because of the problems. I never let it overheat that much, the compression test showed that it did not damage the engine. All numbers were dead on 180psi.

Im done with this shop and any shop for that matter. This is probably the 20th thing they did wrong on this particular car. Im always going to do the work myself now no matter what it is.

[russiankid]

So they put the lower radiator hose onto the upper hose spigot and the upper onto the lower spigot? That would send hot coolant to the bottom of the radiator so then the thermosensor had to have turned the fans on....

[conozo]

So they put the lower radiator hose onto the upper hose spigot and the upper onto the lower spigot? That would send hot coolant to the bottom of the radiator so then the thermosensor had to have turned the fans on....

Yes they switched the spigots on the engine side. Im looking at the shop manual right now and it was definitely hooked up backwards. Now that it is connected right, the engine warms up faster and the fans actually come on now. Also before the thermostat would take forever to open, i believe thats why the fan wasn't coming on too. Im not exactly sure how it works so much different this way, but the evidence shows that the radiator hoses cannot be switched around for normal operation.

[russiankid]

I don't see how that would affect the thermostat. It would still open but send hot coolant to the bottom of the radiator.

[87roach]

How can you screw that up? Wow... I didn't think they were long enough to switch up. Glad to hear you sorted it out and that it was something stupidly simple!

[russiankid]

The lower rad hose on the engine is right under the upper.

[conozo]

I don't see how that would affect the thermostat. It would still open but send hot coolant to the bottom of the radiator.

I think what was happening was that it was sucking a lot of air into the system. That may explain why i could not bleed the system and the "boil over" effect when i turned the car off with the cap off.

I really feel dumb not noticing this. Tell me, am i dumb for not noticing this for so long.

[russiankid]

Well its quite obvious to notice when the upper radiator hose tucks under the head instead of running next to it like it should.

[Dr_Snooz]

Im done with this shop and any shop for that matter. This is probably the 20th thing they did wrong on this particular car. Im always going to do the work myself now no matter what it is.

If that is the only thing you learned from this, then you've learned enough. If you care and aren't strung out, you are already miles ahead of most every shop. I'm glad it was a simple fix.

[MessyHonda]

wow...that sucks...good thing you figured it out....if the hoses looked like they fit it should of been cool

[conozo]

I thought i would give a little update. The hoses being connected backwards was definitely the problem. I have been driving it a lot in stop and go traffic, let it idle when hot out for a while and its never even began to overheat. The temp gauge sits just a hair below half way like it always was before this problem.