Front UCA Noises

[DBMaster]

This topic has been covered before. I searched. There were several recommendations NOT to use the new tubes and bolts that come with cheap aftermarket front UCA's along with the advice to reuse the originals. The new parts seemed quite solid and were a good fit so I used them. It may have been a mistake.

It's is so weird. My highway ride is quieter and the vibration from in the steering wheel is pretty much gone. My upper ball joints in the old UCA's were shot. What is weird is that intermittently I get noises from the front end when going over bumps and when taking turns at low speed. If I bounce the car when parked the UCA's are quiet. I used plenty of lithium grease when assembling and the bushings didn't take too much effort to install. I greased them and used my bench vise to press them in.

I don't understand why properly fitting parts would cause this and I am not eliminating the possibility that the noises have another source besides the UCA's since we all know that improving rigidity in one area can aggravate issues in other areas. If I have to toss the UCA's I just installed and get better ones I will do that in the near future, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas. I am so sick of sounds from the front end like the car is falling apart. It's embarrassing in an otherwise pristine vehicle.

[nswst8]

What about the top hats on the strut springs? If these are pretty worn, this will give off squeaks.

[2oodoor]

sway bar mounting?
what kind of noise. that subtle thumping noise you get from FWD cars? usually is the lower ball joints

edit.. also rack mounts, and link to steering shaft

[DBMaster]

There's a lot more noise when it's cold outside. When I went over a couple of speed bumpos yesterday it sounded like the front end was about to self destruct. After replacing the UCA's it was nice and quiet for a couple of weeks. It's sort of a series of creaks and thumps. Lower ball joints seem good. They were replaced with TRW units several years ago. I replaced the sway bar bushings a few years ago when I thought they were making noise. I have also replaced the tie rod ends. There is no play in anything with the wheels off the ground and when I bounce the car in the garage it doesn't make a peep. I suppose it could be a lot of things other than the cheap Chinese UCA's and bushings, but I doubt it. One thing I thought of is maybe the reman. half shafts my mechanic put on a few years ago have play in the CV joints. It just seems coincidental that it got to be this noisy two weeks after replacing the UCA's.

[Oldblueaccord]

Are you using poly stuff or is it factory? anyway I would think its the rubber composite that is making the noise.

You should hear my poly ends on the rear UCA its like hauling egg cartons around on cold mornings.



wp

[DBMaster]

The bushings are all rubber. There does not seem to be any looseness at all to the UCA bushings. I am quick to blame the fact that I went cheap on the replacement parts, but I suppose it could just as easily be a case of stiffening one area causing noises in another. It's annoying, but it does not appear that there are any imminent failures. Maybe I set my expectations too high. If it gets any worse I am likely to toss my $90 worth of eBay UCA's and bushings and replace them with Moog or Honda OEM.

[LX-incredible]

Sounds like the UCA bushings and sleeve. I had the same problem with mine. It's real hard to notice the play until you get some miles on it, but it's there. At least replace the bushings with moog/three five/honda and use a stock sleeve.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's your bushings. If they were tight enough to require a bench vise to install, they were tight enough to wipe all the grease off the pivot surfaces. Now they sort of scrub and squeak, especially on cold mornings. For what it's worth, you will probably never get rid of the noise on cold mornings, but if it's doing it at other times, you might want to pull them apart and re-grease, or try a different bushing (not control arm) kit.

I had the same problem: https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...ight=front+uca

[DBMaster]

Near as I can tell the pivoting surfaces are the outer ends and edges of the bushings where they move inside the end caps. I don't think the bushings are supposed to move inside the UCA. I just can't understand why I don't hear any noises when the car is parked and I bounce it. No matter. I figure it's the bushings.

[Hazwan]

I have similar problem with my 1g with the LCA creaking only when moving, but nothing when the car is parked and I bounce it. I have yet to fix that, and looking forward to see the solution. Its driving me crazy!

edit: Holy shit! After reading Dr_Snooz's post I think I've got to check that thing ASAP! Its been creaking for a while already.

[DBMaster]

I don't know why I couldn't find Dr Snooz's old post. For what it's worth I think the only pivoting surfaces are the long bolt inside the hollow metal tube and the end caps against the bushings. The broken piece in Dr's post looks to me like part of the seal that just keeps dirt and water out of the bushings. I think the bushings themselves often outlast the control arm - at least the ball joint. I am starting to think that maybe we just have not found the right type of grease yet.

[russiankid]

I had this issue as well. I regreased the bushings and the problem was still there. I ended up torquing the bolt to 30ft-lbs instead of 40ft-lbs like it says in the manual and its been fine ever since.

[Dr_Snooz]

Near as I can tell the pivoting surfaces are the outer ends and edges of the bushings where they move inside the end caps. I don't think the bushings are supposed to move inside the UCA. I just can't understand why I don't hear any noises when the car is parked and I bounce it. No matter. I figure it's the bushings.

That's a big negatory, good buddy. You want everything to be nice and slippery. My end cap sheared off because the bushing wasn't sliding inside the arm like it should.

[DBMaster]

That's a big negatory, good buddy. You want everything to be nice and slippery. My end cap sheared off because the bushing wasn't sliding inside the arm like it should.

Hmm. Sounds like new-new bushings are in my future then. The noises I heard before I replaced the UCA's were similar, but not as bad. After seeing how bad the ball joints were I assumed replacing the UCA's would resolve the noise. It did resolve the steeering wheel vibration, but apparently the worn out balljoints were not the sources of the noises.

[Oldblueaccord]

Double check that the nuts thru the body are nice a tight as well. The holes are oval shaped so it will let the arm walk around if its a little loose.


wp

[w261w261]

I don't think this is related to your problems, but have you replaced the radius arm bushings recently? Are you getting any torque steer or knocking over bumps?

[DBMaster]

I don't think this is related to your problems, but have you replaced the radius arm bushings recently? Are you getting any torque steer or knocking over bumps?

That's actually a good question. The radius rod bushings were replaced when I put it into the shop while on a business trip. I had a lot of stuff done to it that I didn't feel like doing at home.

It was a car repair day yesterday. I replaced the main heater hoses. I also loosened and re-tightened the long bolts through the UCA's. My torque wrench will not fit in the small space, but I think I had made the bolts too tight. They are snug now (maybe close to the 40 ft-lbs they are supposed to be). There is a lot less noise, but I'll have to see how it holds out. When I first replaced them a couple of weeks ago they were dead silent and within ten days started making awful sounds.

[2oodoor]

If the type of uca bushings being used, moves with the arm, then that would call for them being torqued preloaded wouldn't it? In other words not torqued with the car jacked up and the uca in a position it will seldom be riding in.

[DBMaster]

That part makes sense to me. I can't really get the wrenches in there to tighten the nut (while holding the bolt) with the car on the ground. I have noticed that the shiny metal end caps remain stationary while the arm moves. I don't recall noticing that before. Of course, If I overtightened the nut in the first place I may have already damaged the bushings. I removed the hollow tube, bolts, and end caps from my OEM arms and they do appear to be of a higher level of manufacturing quality compared to the ones that came with the kit I purchased. I think at this point I am just being lazy because I don't want to remove the UCA's again unless I am replacing more than just those parts. I have my doubts that just replacing the hardware will resolve the noise issues. I figure that if I grin and bear it for a while I will just get so disgusted that I will buy the high end UCA's and replace everything. I'll chalk up the $90 and my labor to "education."

Oh, also, the more I thought about it the more it did not make sense that there would be any preload. I looked this up in my shop manual again and it actually indicates that you put sealant on the underside of the bolt head and nut and then torque to 40 lb-ft while holding the arm in a vise. This lends credibility to the idea that I either had them too tight, damaged the bushings, or both. I am on page 19-16 of the service manual, by the way.

[LX-incredible]

The UCAs do not need to be tightened with the car on the ground. The bushings have a bronze (or whatever) insert that pivots on the sleeve and washers.

[DBMaster]

The UCAs do not need to be tightened with the car on the ground. The bushings have a bronze (or whatever) insert that pivots on the sleeve and washers.

Awesome! I noticed the bronze, but the color was a little off and I did not identify it was bronze. So it would seem that the friction bearing surfaces are the bolt tube against the bolt and the bronze ring in the bushing against the inside of the end caps. This makes sense to me now. I have noticed another potential source for the noises. My PS strut tower has had a crack for years. Now there are two cracks and the first one is larger than it used to be. The DS tower doesn't appear to be cracked. But stiffening one area by replacing worn out ball joints could add more stress to an area like the strut top, at least laterally. I guess it's something else to research.

[LX-incredible]

The bolt, sleeve, and washers should not move. If installed properly, the UCA and bushings should be the only moving parts.

[Oldblueaccord]

I think I am going to disagree. I think the arm pivots on the bolt going thru the steel bushing all the way accross. So the bolt moves steel on steel. The bushings do nothing but dampen the noise/vibrations from the road.

Thats one of the reason I went with solid bushings no sleeve because the fit of the bolt to the sleeve is pretty damn loose to start with new and I wanted to eliminate any slop I could.


wp

[DBMaster]

Currently, I am not hearing any noises. I guess that's the most frustrating part. Everything appears to be in perfect order, but every now and then I will hear a lot of noise. Then, the next day I will hear nothing. Maybe it's one of those situations where if there is nothing technically wrong, there is nothing wrong. There are actually no broken welds in my strut towers. The cracks are just in the stuff that looks like caulk. I see no movement when bouncing the car or pushing it laterally. One of the issues with the 3g Accord that Honda "improved" with the 4g was the subframe structural rigidity. Maybe at a certain age ALL these cars are going to make noise, especially when it's cold outside. Perhaps I need to relax my perfectionist ways. I have maintained the car to be like-new throughout its entire life. There just might be a time at which I need to realize that is not possible without mega-bucks to spend on restoration work.

[Oldblueaccord]

Get with it and try these out someone. Moog stole my idea!


wp