Front UCA Noises

[w261w261]

DB, I know how you feel. I haven't had my SE-i since new, but since '01 and 86k miles (now 211k). A former pilot, I'm a firm believer in fixing stuff before it breaks, and I have immediately fixed anything that I feel needs it. The suspension is the one area that has been on-and-off frustrating.

I have modified it some, with Eibach Pro-kit springs and Bilstein shocks, the fronts which I had revalved *twice* before I was happy with the settings. On that score, I am perfectly happy; and like you, it takes a lot to make me perfectly happy. In high-speed sweepers with bumps the car tracks perfectly, as a Mustang discovered to his almost-into-the-Jersey Barrier-embarrassment a couple of weeks ago. The 1" drop makes it look better, and the slight increase in harshness is a very acceptable trade-off for the much better handling. I highly recommend it.

The squeaks and various bumps, however, have been a continuing challenge. I am just about to order every single blankety-blank rear suspension bushing and bolt on the car, including the big trailing arm ones (they have to be pressed in I believe), and new ones for the shock towers. Since I have replaced both rear UCA's, this had better fix the bumping that I *sometimes* experience with a rapid compression of the suspension. My mechanic will be under an absolute "if you do not slather these bushings with copious quantities of silicon grease I will ..... I will do something bad to you" orders.

On the front, I just replaced the radius arm bushings for the second time in my ownership. There was no crashing, but I began to notice a slight amount of torque steer, very gradually increasing over time. The new bushings fixed the problem.

But the main issue with the front end is the constant battle with squeaks. It seems to be most prevalent when the temp is either quite cold or very hot. I have replaced, at one time or another, all the bushings up front, and have always insisted on them being greased. I think it's been done, as I've made such a point of it with the shop. All four control arms/ball joints are pretty new, I believe it's mostly the UCA bushings that are the culprit. Coincidentally, I have an upcoming repair that will give me an excuse to replace these non-OEM bushings (my bad there).

When I bought my car, the seller mentioned that they had hit a pot hole at some point and had had to buy a new wheel and tire. Turns out that they hit so hard that the suspension mount was moved some, such that the camber was 1.1 degrees more negative on the right than on the left. When I dropped the car by 1" with the springs, it accentuated the negative camber another 1+ degrees, so it is a little much. I have bought camber-adjusting mounts to take care of the problem, which necessitates detaching the control arms, so I am going to order a new set of bushings from Honda (I now only use Honda OEM, as I have found the quality of everything else varies too widely. The only exception was when my distributor failed, and I just couldn't get my billfold to open to the tune of $500 for new OEM one. That was a junkyard visit, after Cardone sent me one that didn't work). While I'm at it, I might just order a bunch of other bushings too for the front. I'm so tired of not being able to get on top of those intermittent squeaks that I'm willing to just throw money at it.

I did once have this knocking from the right front, which was caused by a now-departed shop not torquing the UCA bushing bolt to 40. It was so loose it was making the noise. I took off the front wheel, tightened things up, fired the shop, and it as OK.

Overall, I'm very happy with the engineering choices Honda made twenty-something years ago. My only quibble is with the squeaks and the front brake rotors. Even the leather guy, when he fixed my driver's seat, commented on how the SE-i leather was very good quality, and far above the hides in other cars of the same price point. Not so bad, and why I love the car.

The other reason I love the car is I can get tremendous support for it right here, from people with far more knowledge than I have. I almost feel with my car, that I have an obligation to keep it in great shape, so that the next owner (after they pry my dead fingers from the wheel) will be motivated to do the same.

[DBMaster]

w261w261. I feel like I am stuttering when I type that!

I'm with you on most of what you said. I don't think your initial 1.1 degree negative camber was caused by a pothole. Mine had 1.4 degrees of negative camber on the front right the day it rolled off the line. Until I replaced the UCA's I used to get more wear in the inside edge of that tire. With regular rotations I could still get more or less full use from a set of tires. I did put an Ingall's kit on that UCA, but I did not like it. The kit replaces the mounting hardware and it was not as strong as the OEM mounts. I kept hearing loud clunks when shifting into reverse and lots of funny noises when it was cold. I think going with the Prelude upper arms as has been done on this forum by many might be the best way to go. Every time you replace the UCA's you will be affecting camber. The last set I had on the car netted me something that was pretty close to zero degrees. It was at least good enough to keep the tires wearing evenly.

I bought a "Brake-Tru" kit online and resurfaced my rotors on the car. The kit is so simple and it ended the pedal pulsation I was experiencing. I went with more expensive ceramic pads and haven't had a repeat of the problem in at least three years. I have had to replace the master cylinder like clockwork every 90-100K miles and I replace the brake fluid every 30K religiously.

I just replaced the three main heater hoses as a preventive measure. The originals were actually in very good shape with the exception of the end that connects under the distributor. Due to the oil leaks from the old distributor the hose was softened and bulging. There are numerous other small hoses and coolant linbes that I should probably replace, too, but I don't think I have the patience any more to try to access them. Most look very difficult to reach. I have a good mechanic so maybe when I have it in for something else I will drop off some bulk hose and ask him to do the honors.

You may have seen my other posts about the distributor. Hi Test rebuilders had a surplus of the TEC units so they were selling the remans on eBay for $150. The first one didn't work at all. The second one failed catastrophically a couple of blocks from home. That was scary. It could have just as easily left me stranded. I disassembled the third one completely and combined it with parts from my original. I had a winner at that point. Then, I happened across a brand new one on eBay for $75. It was still in the dust covered Honda box. If you want some good reading about all this go here.

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...light=lazy+man

Perfectionism is truly an albatross, isn't it?

[w261w261]

261w was our old phone number in MN, before we got dial phones when I was a kid. Since I typically need more than 4 digits for a UID, I just repeated it. It has the advantage of being used by no one else.

<< There are numerous other small hoses and coolant lines that I should probably replace, too, but I don't think I have the patience any more to try to access them. Most look very difficult to reach. I have a good mechanic so maybe when I have it in for something else I will drop off some bulk hose and ask him to do the honors >>
You should buy the hoses from the dealer. They aren't all the same size, and some of them are pre-formed, with tight curves. Getting to them is easy, with the manifold (ahem) exception of the one that departs the IACV and dives under the intake plumbing. It was obscure enough that I overlooked it when I replaced all the other little hoses a couple of year ago, and I finally noticed it, along with its swelling end, probably just before it was going to fail. My mechanic said it was a bitch of a job getting the other end affixed.

I looked at a large number of posts about the camber problem, and finally decided against the Prelude arms, but now I can't remember why. I think it was because the particular mount that I bought didn't have a sliding setting like some, but actual holes for the chassis mounting bolt, and those holes corresponded to the different adjustments I needed on the right and left sides. Hopefully, I won't experience the problems you mentioned.

I vaguely remember the thread about finding the new distributor; it made me jealous, although my JY special has been fine. I saw in another thread somewhere that Cardone et al has no way to test the pseudo CPS contacts in the distributors they rebuild, so it's just luck if you get one where those are bad. I find it hard to believe, but they probably just don't want to bother.

<< Every time you replace the UCA's you will be affecting camber >>
I hope that since I only buy Honda OEM, that that will be minimized.

Interesting about the Brake-Tru kit. I'll look into it, although my rotors have been quiet for a year or two now. I don't drive the car as much as I used to (down to about 8k per year). Did the ceramic pads squeal or not perform well until they had heated up?

[DBMaster]

No issues with the ceramic pads. The Brake Tru kit is nothing more than a special type of carbide on a self adhesive fiber backing. You take off your existing pads, slap the abrasive onto them, and put the pads back in the caliper. You then run the car in drive, one wheel at a time, on a jack stand. It takes a bit of a touch, though, as you have to apply the gas and brake at the same time. I thought it sounded crazy to run the car in drive with one front wheel still on the ground, but since our cars don't have limited slip differentials the wheel on the ground does not try to move - weird. You end up with a set of concentric grooves cut into your rotors on both sides. I spoke with the mechanical engineer who invented the thing and he claims 29% increase in surface area. All I know is that it worked.

The hoses I have replaced thus far have been Honda hoses. The big heater hoses are custom molded and I think it would be a real PITA to go generic. I am thinking bulk hose only for the little pieces of larger hose between the thermostat housing and the metal lines. Those pieces are only about an inch long. I only use Gates as an aftermarket.

Here's a write-up.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...29/153839.html

[DBMaster]

I ordered all nine of the little hoses from Majestic. Looks like another day of coolant on the ground, cursing, and bruised knuckles!

[Oldblueaccord]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point.



wp

[DBMaster]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point.

I know how you feel. I was thinking the same, but my used car search for my daughter has been disappointing, therefore she might end up with this car. I have spent my period of unemployment replacing just about everything that even looks slightly suspect. So, my twenty year old car may end up being more reliable that cars much younger. I think I may vent a little in a new post!

[DBMaster]

I am reviving this thread to show off my dunce cap. D'oh!

I have a broken and totally separated left motor mount. Cheap Auto Zone crap that I put on five years ago. I just decided to check it because the noise has been awful since it got cold here. The center is totally broken away from the outer ring. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be pretty quiet after I replace it because the bounce test produces no noise at all from the UCA's.

[codyJDM]

I am reviving this thread to show off my dunce cap. D'oh!

I have a broken and totally separated left motor mount. Cheap Auto Zone crap that I put on five years ago. I just decided to check it because the noise has been awful since it got cold here. The center is totally broken away from the outer ring. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be pretty quiet after I replace it because the bounce test produces no noise at all from the UCA's.

Should be very quiet and feel TONS better, good job on the find haha

[Oldblueaccord]

Well see you stuck with it is the important thing. You'd be a dunce if you gave up.


wp

[w261w261]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point. wp

This is the end-of-life story for a lot of our cars. They aren't classics, and are pretty good mechanically, but for many people it's straight economics. Run 'em until they drop. This will go on until only the cars are left that people keep because they love them, not because it's necessarily a good economic decision.

I'd say in another 5 years they herd will be thinned a lot. A shame, but that's life. Speaking just for myself, my car is gonna be there.

[84Accord]

i had a very similar problem. turns out it was the sway bar bushings. might want to jack the car up and check for free play in that

[DBMaster]

Well, it was a false hope, I guess. There is definitely less vibration at idle, but the noises are still there. Though the mount was completely shot I replaced the two main lower mounts earlier this year so the engine wasn't actually moving very much. Sometimes it's nice and quiet and then the noises return. I will probably break down and tear apart the UCA's and replace the aftermarket tubes and bolts with my OEM parts. I replaced the sway bar bushings just a few years ago so that's not it. By the sound of it I am thinking there may be a bit of slop inside the tubes so maybe the OEM parts will resolve that.

It gets to a point, as has been stated, that keeping the car on the road becomes somewhat of a labor of love and not economics. It's literally a hobby and deciding that I am tired of fixing things and replacing parts would be difficult since I have already put so much into it. Noises are not the end of the world. They are annoying, but as long as I know there is not an imminent failure behind them it's tolerable for now.

[Dr_Snooz]

I question that "end of life" calculus. My last couple car purchases were big disappointments. They were uglier than my 3g and in a most cases were riddled with design flaws. I just hated my 4g. My Bimmer has also been a kick in the teeth. I know I'll never find another car where the engineers went to such great lengths to make a superlative car.

When you replace a car, you have to replace all your manuals, buy new special tools, etc. etc. There's ancillary costs that you don't anticipate.

Finally, there is the learning curve associated with a newer car. It's completely different than your last car, so it's problems will stump you. On an older car, you've seen everything and you know what's about to wear out and exactly how you're going to fix it and make it better. You don't have to rely so much on the shop.

The only issue I'm genuinely worried about is the lack of parts I see coming. Right now, you can still get a lot of parts, but that will keep getting harder and harder. I'm not sure how to get around that. I'm starting by taking extra good care of the working parts I have.

[DBMaster]

I got motivated by all the cold weather that has been causing my front end to sound like a 1930's Ford tractor. I pulled both front UCA's, cleaned up my OEM sleeves, bolts, and chromed end caps, and replaced the aftermarket parts with them. The aftermarket sleeves honestly didn't look that bad. They did not have seams in them, as someone here observed with theirs. Maybe having the OEM parts, new grease, and the proper torque value will quiet them down. I hope so. They have been so noisy on cold days that the anyone riding in the car thinks it's about to lose a wheel.

[DBMaster]

Well, it's only a partial success. They are still noisy on cold mornings and my car is garaged. They are quiet once the outside temp goes above 40 or so. I guess at this point it's gotta be the cheap bushings. The metal part that contacts the end caps must be something different from OEM. Even though I have plenty of lithium grease loaded into the things they still make noise! Frustrating!

[84Accord]

did you check the nut on top of the strut tops? the one that holds the strut rod into the strut mount? mine came loose and had the same noise.

[DBMaster]

did you check the nut on top of the strut tops? the one that holds the strut rod into the strut mount? mine came loose and had the same noise.

That's a good thought! I just checked. They do appear to be a bit loose, but not the source of the noise. I wanted to tighten them, but they will not budge. You can't use a socket on the nut because it just turns the whole strut rod and I don't seem to be able to find anything that will hold the rod snug enough to turn the nut.

[84Accord]

That's a good thought! I just checked. They do appear to be a bit loose, but not the source of the noise. I wanted to tighten them, but they will not budge. You can't use a socket on the nut because it just turns the whole strut rod and I don't seem to be able to find anything that will hold the rod snug enough to turn the nut.

you have to use an allen wrench/ hex key, or w/e else they are called lol? to hold the screw part still while turning the nut.

[DBMaster]

Mine do not have hex insets. They just have a couple of flats on the top you have to grip with a vice grip or small wrench. I don't think there is enough play there to be the cause of the noises. I believe that the aftermarket bushings do not use the right kind of insert material. I replaced the UCA's because of worn out ball joints and the noises I am describing are definitely from the UCA bushing area. The amount of noise is temperature dependent. If it bugs me a lot I guess I will have to disassemble yet again and try using Moog bushings.

[DBMaster]

I apologize for continuing to bore y'all with this crap. Today the temperature was nearly springlike and the creaking noises were still there. I took a chance and messed with the tightness of the long bolts because I cannot fit my torque wrench in the wheel well. I was able to get the noises to stop by reducing the torque on those bolts. I recall that same technique working in the past when my mechanic replaced the UCA's. So, I can't say what the torque value is right now. It might be as little as 20-30 ft lbs. I played with it a good while and found that beyond a certain level of "tightness" they would start creaking when I bounced the car. I made them as tight as they would go without creaking. Since the nuts are self-locking they should be OK, but I will keep an eye on them for a while.

Maybe Honda had it right after all when they did away with upper UCA's in later generations. I guess it's a tradeoff because the suspension we have tends to maintain maximum tire contact when cornering, but look at all the issues when the car is older.

[Dr_Snooz]

If you get a bad set of bushings, you'll have to endure constant racket. I've been real happy with my Moogs. I'd shoot some Loctite on those nuts but just keep an eye on it.

[DBMaster]

Excellent idea. I put some Loctite on the exposed threads. They are easy enough to monitor, but the LT is cheap insurance. If the nuts fell off completely the bolts really couldn't back out too far, though.

[DBMaster]

OK, maybe this will be the last post in this thread. I was still thinking about what 84Accord said about the strut rod nuts. Even after messing with the tightness of the bolts there was still quite a racket on cold days. I just got a bit desperate and popped the plastic caps on the strut towers and sprayed a generous amount of silicon lubricant around the washers. We had icy roads last night and the thing has been miraculously quiet. Do you think maybe the rubber parts on top of the struts are a bit shrunken? Maybe putting new, tight, UCA's forces the struts to move more thus resulting in noise from the strut towers. All I know is that I went from creaks and squeaks to nothing - for a week thus far. I might be onto something.