READ THIS,VERY INTERESTING....(e-mail going around)

[detroit313]

Bad Mouthing American / Canadian Vehicles
Get the Facts Straight !

Here are some facts from the WEB that don't get the press they deserve - next time you hear negative comments about domestic this may come in handy it also has the sites that the info came from as well. Pay particular attention to #13 - It says a lot

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry ( Toyota )
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon ( Toyota )
b. Grand Prix ( Pontiac )
c. Sable (Mercury)

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma ( Toyota )

7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius ( Toyota )

8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry ( Toyota )
c. Fit (Honda)

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

ANSWERS:

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States .
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota .
www.businessweek.com/a...

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
www.jdpower.com/autos/...
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America , taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
www.edmunds.com/help/a...

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
www.latimes.com/classi...

9.. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award.. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
www.greencar.com/featu.../

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
www.northamericancarof...

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
www.northamericancarof...

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

13.If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit ’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit .

Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America .
Foreign automakers: 33 U..S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America .
levelfieldinstitute.or.../

[Demon1024]

i agree on the vw point, but what is intitial quality in 3 years? 5,8,20 seriously i know id love to buy a car every 3 years. but i dont want to have to. i dont see nearly as many domestic cars making it to 300k as select imports. being American i hate to say it but it's true.
i'm all in for having a cady sport (got to drool on one today) but till i see more us brands getting more miles to a car i'll stick to honda

[Nafs Asdf]

Also aren't those answers based mostly on surveys, of Americans... And correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the average American say that any domestic product is better than any foreign one? I'm not saying the "facts" as you call them are necessarely wrong, but might they not just be a little bit biased?

Do the same surveys in Europe and European cars will top the list, do it in Japan and Japanese cars will be first.

[Elver]

I guess my first question is who put all of this together? There could be biases. Also I know that currently the U.S has made a few very good cars especially the Cadillac CTS V and the Chevrolet Corvette to name a few. I honestly dont doubt that in the last couple of years American auto makers are striving to make some really good cars. But we should look at why... Not only has American auto maker put most of their money in trucks but if we look in the 80's and the 90's America came up with some really really crappy cars. Many people lost their faith in GM. Chrysler and Ford during these years. It was also in these years when Camry and the Accord were becoming kings in the market. Why exactly have American's lost their faith?? I guess it will be reliability and quality. I really don't question most of the information that suggests that some American cars are in cases BETTER that Japanese ones. I guess my question is why hasn't it always been this way??!

[Vanilla Sky]

All I can say is the Malibu? Sure, it's a nice car, but I don't like that much plastic in my interior.

And I don't take anything JD Power says into consideration, especially "initial quality." Initial quality is what a panel of judges thinks of the build quality of a car just after it has been built. Many of the high ranking cars in initial quality have pretty big issues, even with the items scored in initial quality.

Sure, when I look at buying cars, I look at all makes. We're looking for a small wagon right now. I can't buy anything but the Caliber from any of the US makers, so I'm going Japanese. When Detroit builds a car in my market segment that isn't garbage, I'll buy it.

[detroit313]

thats the answer i KNEW i would get from people...JD powers is very respectble by the way. what is it with people thinking domestic cars are inferior? WTF!! have you people even owned one? is everyone outside of MI,OH,and the midwest thinking this way? we owned them all of our lives and they all have been great vehicles! i just dont get it..............

[rfiks]

this pisses me off, but im not surprised. wow where do i start...
if gm is soo gr8 why are they going out of buisness? and who are these jd power jerkofs-what we cant make decisions on our own? and what good is a luxory car? so you can make big payments and look cool i doing it? why would red bull indorse monster... they would'nt! america is having a hard time selling their p.o.s. so the have to put stuff like this out. look at how different HONDA commercials are from gm's. HONDA's commercials are alil funny (imo) gm's commercials are always the same! "they're trying to sell" by talking about the various awards the won and sometimes even put out there how this p.o.s. is better than an import and sometimes include american made songs like sweet home alabama n stuff. HONDA does'nt have to try to sell they sell any ways!!! they make cars, motorcycles, boat engines, they even make air planes! and everybodys all over HONDA'S nuts after they made v-tec, now theres cars with "vvti", "ecotec" in shit hahaha maan' these guyz are full of it! and i was just a matter of time b4 this was gunna happen look how popular HONDA were back in the dayz and their still popular, the price of a b-series still has'nt changed much after the k-series and in not gunna get started on the "k". and its easy to make these cars fast. to me there is no better automobile than a import and no better car than a HONDA!

[Vanilla Sky]

Yeah, I have had experience with American cars. Take my dad's 2003 Chevy Silverado with 28,000 miles on it that was having steering and suspension issues since 8,000 miles? How about my mom's 2000 MAzda 626 with a Ford-built CD4E transmission that was dying at 80,000 miles? What about the Camaro that I've been daily driving since last year? It's falling apart! I've had 3geez with more miles in better mechanical condition.

Yeah, I have experience. When Detroit builds a car I like, I'll buy. Currently, the only thing that is available that I would consider is a Pontiac Vibe, but that's nothing more than a reskinned Toyota Matrix.

[Vanilla Sky]

And I'm going to make one observation here. The answer to number 7 isn't the Chevy Aveo, but the Daewoo Kalos. It's built in Korea, not in the US.

Even the Wikipedia entry for the Chevy Aveo is just rebranded :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_aveo

[cubert]

this pisses me off, but im not surprised. wow where do i start...
if gm is soo gr8 why are they going out of buisness? and who are these jd power jerkofs-what we cant make decisions on our own? and what good is a luxory car? so you can make big payments and look cool i doing it? why would red bull indorse monster... they would'nt! america is having a hard time selling their p.o.s. so the have to put stuff like this out. look at how different HONDA commercials are from gm's. HONDA's commercials are alil funny (imo) gm's commercials are always the same! "they're trying to sell" by talking about the various awards the won and sometimes even put out there how this p.o.s. is better than an import and sometimes include american made songs like sweet home alabama n stuff. HONDA does'nt have to try to sell they sell any ways!!! they make cars, motorcycles, boat engines, they even make air planes! and everybodys all over HONDA'S nuts after they made v-tec, now theres cars with "vvti", "ecotec" in shit hahaha maan' these guyz are full of it! and i was just a matter of time b4 this was gunna happen look how popular HONDA were back in the dayz and their still popular, the price of a b-series still has'nt changed much after the k-series and in not gunna get started on the "k". and its easy to make these cars fast. to me there is no better automobile than a import and no better car than a HONDA!

please stop.


What are luxury cars for? Not everyone likes driving around in a underpowered sub-compact car! What an idea! Besides, what does this have to do with American vs Imports?

You comment on American companies using American songs in their ads...what would you like them to use? A nice selection of German pop hits? I mean, really, where the hell are you going with this?

And before you pop another nut over "TEH MAD KRAZEE FAST VTAK SYSTEM DAT HONDA MADE"...They weren't the first ones to do variable valve timing.


Then you say blahblah blah easy to make fast...guess what? small block American engines are easy to make fast too. Again, this has nothing to do with the OP point, because it wasn't based on people modding the cars.



This being said, I do prefer imports over American stuff in most situations, although I havnt had a lot of experience with the newer cars, import or domestic. (newest being late 90's early 2000's)

[2oodoor]

It is my business to keep up with some of this in trade publications so I got most of those questions right.
Read the questions very carefully.

[turabaka]

I'm not gonna bash on American cars or anything here, but I just thought I'd add my 2 cents just for the hell of it.

I work at Autozone, and the most common cars I see coming in are Chevy, Ford, GM, Isuzu, and Subaru. The cars that I almost never see unless the owner did something incredibly stupid of they're buying performance parts is Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi. I'm not saying that American cars suck, since in Idaho a lot of people own trucks, but some of the problems they have are just ridiculous sometimes.

ps. thought I'd add this cause I think it's funny. The chevy truck guys are my worst customers. They usually ask their questions like this. "I need a alternator for a chevy 350" where I have to follow up with "what year", and the usually response is "they're all the same" damned rednecks piss me off sometimes. Next time one of them asks I'm just gonna grab a random part, and hand it to them.

[2oodoor]

^^^ I concour^^^^
that is what makes me lean towards ford, you have to know what you are doing to work on them, and that random part you hand them they may just be able to work it! LOL

Most people do not expect to find parts for Honda (your list) there anyway.
You should be selling filters, belts, cv axles, brake parts once in a while, but that would be about it.

[turabaka]

^^^ I concour^^^^
that is what makes me lean towards ford, you have to know what you are doing to work on them, and that random part you hand them they may just be able to work it! LOL

Most people do not expect to find parts for Honda (your list) there anyway.
You should be selling filters, belts, cv axles, brake parts once in a while, but that would be about it.

yeah. Although like I said usually the only time it's something other than a tune up part the owner did something incredibly stupid the break it.

[lostforawhile]

um this is a honda bulletin board, of course people are going to be biased towards hondas. If this survey was on a ford board or a gm board everyone would biased towards the american cars. as of right now,there isn't much i like except older cars, even my wifes 98 civic has way too much plastic and it's cheap looking inside.

[cubert]

^^^ I concour^^^^
that is what makes me lean towards ford, you have to know what you are doing to work on them, and that random part you hand them they may just be able to work it! LOL

Most people do not expect to find parts for Honda (your list) there anyway.
You should be selling filters, belts, cv axles, brake parts once in a while, but that would be about it.

Maybe its just my experience, but ive had much better luck with Chevy trucks.

When i first started at the shop i used to work at, they had an F-150 with the straight 6 in it, it was gutless, got horrible fuel economy, and shifted like garbage (thank god we never pulled a trailer with it).


They then upgraded to a 99 Chevy 1500 with the 5.3 in it. This truck was tough, pulled hard, shifted great, fuel economy was average, and we always pulled trailers with it (everything from open snowmobile trailers to a 26' enclosed trailer with 8-9 bikes in it!) The only issue was it was a farm truck before we had it so it rusted out quick.

They also on occasion brought in the general managers 2500 with the 6.0 in it. This thing would pull that same enclosed trailer at 85-90mph with no issue/swaying etc.


They then went back to Fords, an F-150 with the 4.6, and an F-350 with the 5.4. Neither are all that powerful, (esp the 4.6, we put a small enclosed trailer on the back and the thing turned into a total dog. Each one developed a cracked exhaust mani after a little over 3 months of owning them, and the f-350 wasnt all that impressive in the towing department.


Again, could just be i had bad luck with fords...

[2oodoor]

the ford with a 5.4 surely had some guts, come on now... I agree with the rest of it, comparing a 99 chevy 1500 to a streight six shifty ford is like comparing turkey burger to ribeye steak.. 5.3 chevy trucks are sweet no doubt about it. I have not seen these exhaust cracks like you mention... the exhaust pipes do pop and crack (sounds only) when you park them though.
I would not buy any other ford truck except uprgrading just like the one I have now (04 4.6 ext cab) honestly. If I were towing I would have a V-10 Ford or a Chevy diesel. We use a 5.4 short bed 150 at work, that thing will tote the mail bud... but I dread the day it needs plugs.
I have had all kinds.. Love the fords from sevanties n had a 72 Chevy cheyenne 454 4-10 gears, that thing would make your eyeballs water like riding without a helmet, FAST, burn rubber in every gear, automatic...I really liked the 99 1500 I had but the diff went out so I had to trade it quickley.

[cubert]

yea...the straight 6 comparo was a bad one

The 5.4 does have some nut to it, i will give it that...but maybe where its such a big truck it takes away some of that.


Like i said, maybe i got one that was taken care of poorly

[2oodoor]

these surveys can be curved to support any particular model
If you pick a field of odd models from toyota.. avalon, tercel, tundras... you will find more engineering mishaps than you would in tacoma or corollas. Thus you could bash the brand based on surveys inclusive of those vehicles toyota put out to target other markets. Tacoma and Corolla are long time world class products everyone else is targeting.
Honda, several models have suffered in quality, why? a number of theories could apply. Fact is, Americanized production schedules sort of forced their hand to reduce the number of operations required during assembly, and the materials like plastics and stamped steel had to be bought from the most economical sources, probably on bid. Nothing wrong with simplicity and "raw" cabin features, this was the way of Japanese cars decades ago was it not? Maybe we got a litte spoiled with the European immulation of our 3rd gen Accords ehh?
I know my 94 civic was made out of recycled chicken of the sea cans. lol
Hell that car would be almost fifteen years old now.. lol

[rfiks]

um this is a honda bulletin board, of course people are going to be biased towards hondas. If this survey was on a ford board or a gm board everyone would biased towards the american cars. as of right now,there isn't much i like except older cars, even my wifes 98 civic has way too much plastic and it's cheap looking inside.

thats what im sayin', the old ones are cool!(domestics) the new ones are just trash!!! i spent a good year as a auto dismantler and all i saw when digging through the mangled wreck of a gm is... "Made in Mexico." LOL the first time i seen it i yelled to my brother- hey did u see this shit!? he laffed and said, see their all like that! i know some people like domestics but to each his own...

[1ajs]

theres alot of propoganda in that survay

in my city a good car is one that starts in -40 if u forget to plug her in... theres a reso why honda put heaters in the carbs on the a20

[labeledsk8r]

thats the answer i KNEW i would get from people...JD powers is very respectble by the way. what is it with people thinking domestic cars are inferior? WTF!! have you people even owned one? is everyone outside of MI,OH,and the midwest thinking this way? we owned them all of our lives and they all have been great vehicles! i just dont get it..............

i have owned a GM car before the 95 cutlass coupe... and my god i had some of the weirdest shit go rong on that... blown out fuel tank.. melted fuel sender (why i nthe hell is a fuel sender unit even getting hot!)door latches not working.. horible set up engine compartment (batt under the washer resivor?? come the fuck on) and just all around anoying.. i have had hondas and such treat me bad aswell... but not as bad as that cutlass did on repairs..

really i aswell feel that this is very bias ... american cars need to step back and rethink there outlook.. i mean i laughed at the most fuel econic car up[ there being an SUV and that they got it to match a normal non hybrid sedan... if american car makers were smart and if there new technology is so great.. then put it in a small car and tada the best car out there... but no lazzy ass americans have to have the biggest shit on the streets..

**edit** im not fully hateing on american cars.. they just have went way off there old paths... my grandparents have a ford 68 galixy 500 convertable and they still daily drive it wiht a crapload of miles... but american cars arnt built like that anymore..

[rfiks]

i have owned a GM car before the 95 cutlass coupe... and my god i had some of the weirdest shit go rong on that... blown out fuel tank.. melted fuel sender (why i nthe hell is a fuel sender unit even getting hot!)door latches not working.. horible set up engine compartment (batt under the washer resivor?? come the fuck on) and just all around anoying.. i have had hondas and such treat me bad aswell... but not as bad as that cutlass did on repairs..

really i aswell feel that this is very bias ... american cars need to step back and rethink there outlook.. i mean i laughed at the most fuel econic car up[ there being an SUV and that they got it to match a normal non hybrid sedan... if american car makers were smart and if there new technology is so great.. then put it in a small car and tada the best car out there... but no lazzy ass americans have to have the biggest shit on the streets..

rodger that!

[AccordB20A]

i cant even comment in this thread cause American cars aren't popular over here. we always make comments about how small someones cock is if we see a large American car/truck go past.

aaand american cars have to be reliable, its a larger country therefore they do more miles thats why they show as reliable cause they do millions of kms. but over here when the longest drive you can do is 1000km and the cars get started and stopped and started and stopped all the time they dont seem to last so they dont show as reliable.

[A18A]

only american car i know of over here are the chevy/toyota cavaliers, and fuck they suck