Bilstein Struts

[Rendon LX-i]

Okay well i want to get these but im reading and i have to get em revalved Correct? SO Meaning they are regradless same as a Gr-2 or a stock strut. I just dont want to go out and buy them then i have the same ride as my gr-2. If so ill just buy tokicos. Let me know guys

[codyJDM]

Buy them(or Tokicos) and make some extended top hats man. Best thing you could ever do. Cheap, functional, and make your ride quality like you are stock. It is awesome. I made some for my ground controls on my tokicos and it is like night and day.

[LxAcc510]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BILST...spagenameZWDVW

doesnt seem legit simply for the lack of detail but i guess it's legit.

[MessyHonda]

i think you got to set them up depending on what springs you are using.

[military mase]

get tha blisteins you won't regret it. Plus they should have a lifetime warrenty.

[nswst8]

These listed are the touring class (TC) "DO NOT GET THESE"

You need the Heavy Duty (HD)s for revalving.

Besides the seller never returned my inquiry. Not the signs of a quality seller.

[markmdz89hatch]

The HD Bill's should be stiffer than the GR-2's, but what springs are you running? Messy is right about matching it to your springs, not just assuming that stiffer will work better.

Buy them(or Tokicos) and make some extended top hats man. Best thing you could ever do. Cheap, functional, and make your ride quality like you are stock. It is awesome. I made some for my ground controls on my tokicos and it is like night and day.

I'm still not completely sold on this idea. Although you are lengthening the stroke of your strut to something closer to normal (providing your car is lowered), it's still not sitting completely well in my gut. If you raise the tophats more then your car is lowered, you'll overextend the piston and either thrash the struts guts, or yank it right out of the fork. Either way, I wouldn't want to be in the car when that happens.

Anyway, I digress, this really isn't the thread to bash the 'tophat mod', but I would hold off on recommending this until we find out exactly what springs he's using, and just what we're trying to accomplish with swapping over to the Bills' from the GR-2's.

[Rendon LX-i]

The HD Bill's should be stiffer than the GR-2's, but what springs are you running? Messy is right about matching it to your springs, not just assuming that stiffer will work better.



I'm still not completely sold on this idea. Although you are lengthening the stroke of your strut to something closer to normal (providing your car is lowered), it's still not sitting completely well in my gut. If you raise the tophats more then your car is lowered, you'll overextend the piston and either thrash the struts guts, or yank it right out of the fork. Either way, I wouldn't want to be in the car when that happens.

Anyway, I digress, this really isn't the thread to bash the 'tophat mod', but I would hold off on recommending this until we find out exactly what springs he's using, and just what we're trying to accomplish with swapping over to the Bills' from the GR-2's.

I have the sportline springs. I like my ride i just want it to be stiffer instead of have a bounce or two after a bump.

Im not doing the mod. Im not saying for people not to do it. Its just i like a clean look not a hat when i open my hood. As far as the bilsten I should get em then. The details arent trust worthy on ebay.

[markmdz89hatch]

Ren, thanks for that reply. Give me a few, and I'll come back to you with whether or not you should go with the Bill's in stock form or go with a higher valving. Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking before just spending money. I can promise you, it will work in your favor.

[Rendon LX-i]

OH i know man thanks for helping out. Thats alot of money you know. But i have to work now. Thanks mark once again.

[LX-incredible]

These listed are the touring class (TC) "DO NOT GET THESE"

You need the Heavy Duty (HD)s for revalving.

Besides the seller never returned my inquiry. Not the signs of a quality seller.

Agreed. I have attempted to contact that seller as well.

The HD shocks are a stiffer replacement to stock and EXCELLENT with stock springs. I love how they ride on the auto. I also have them on mb2 with 1.5" Sportlines. The front is just SLIGHTLY bouncy, but the rear is fine. They do have a lifetime warranty, but who knows exactly what that covers. I can tell you that you will be impressed by the quality and can expect a long life out of them. From what I've heard the GR-2s are nothing more than a stock replacement on our cars. Remember that the tokicos (like most things on here) are so popular because they are relatively inexpensive to the Bilstein.

I would count on having the fronts revalved (and possibly shortened?).

[markmdz89hatch]

Agreed. I have attempted to contact that seller as well.

The HD shocks are a stiffer replacement to stock and EXCELLENT with stock springs. I love how they ride on the auto. I also have them on mb2 with 1.5" Sportlines. The front is just SLIGHTLY bouncy, but the rear is fine. They do have a lifetime warranty, but who knows exactly what that covers. I can tell you that you will be impressed by the quality and can expect a long life out of them. From what I've heard the GR-2s are nothing more than a stock replacement on our cars. Remember that the tokicos (like most things on here) are so popular because they are relatively inexpensive to the Bilstein.

I would count on having the fronts revalved (and possibly shortened?).

FINALLY! One of my favorite posts by any member in the 9 years I've been on this board.

I agree with the entire post with the exception of the expectation of a long life. I'm at work, and haven't had the time (yet) to check on the specs of those springs you're running, and compare them to the HD's factory valving. That 'bounce' that is referenced in the post is due to a spring being stronger than the strut. He knows what he's talking about. While it's true that a strut valved higher, but not high enough for a spring, will last longer then a lesser valved strut, it is still inevitable that it'll blow.

[LX-incredible]

FINALLY! One of my favorite posts by any member in the 9 years I've been on this board.

I agree with the entire post with the exception of the expectation of a long life. I'm at work, and haven't had the time (yet) to check on the specs of those springs you're running, and compare them to the HD's factory valving. That 'bounce' that is referenced in the post is due to a spring being stronger than the strut. He knows what he's talking about. While it's true that a strut valved higher, but not high enough for a spring, will last longer then a lesser valved strut, it is still inevitable that it'll blow.

Haha, well thanks. I wouldn't predict a long life for any REPLACMENT strut in anything other than a stock replacement or unless they are valved to suit the spring rate.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok, heeeeere we go:

Eibach Sportline: F: 1.62, 342 lb/in, R: 0.68, 80 lb/in

Here's what that means:
Front: 62% stiffer than stock. Actual spring rate 342 lb/in.
Rear: 0.68 stiffness ratio compared to stock. Yes, that means is actually softer then the stock spring. In fact 32% softer than stock. That rates in at 80 lb/in.

So, IF you got the GR-2's new, and have never run any spring other then the Eibach Sportlines or your OEM spring, then I would consider keeping them on out back, and just getting a set of HD's revalved for the front. This way you'll save on the cost of the HD rears which wouldn't net you much (if any) difference over the GR-2's. That saved $ on the rears could help offset the cost of a revalved set of fronts.

IMO, I when (if you go through with it) you call Billstein to get a set of custom fronts, I would consider requesting a 400lb rebound valving on it in order to afford you a 15+% rebound valving over the Eibach.

Another route you could consider (good luck with this one) would be trying to find a set of Koni's for the front that someone has had tucked away on a shelf somewhere, and has not used them. I would shy away from used ones unless you know exactly what springs have been used one them, and for approximately how many miles.

Regardless of what you do, pls let us know.

[LX-incredible]

Excellent info, exactly what I was looking for actually...

[markmdz89hatch]

i can't take credit for it. If you click into the Suspension sub-forum, there are two threads stickied at the top. One is for Dampers (struts/shocks), and the other is for Springs (which includes sway bars). All those specs are compiled from numerous calls and/or e-mails by Jim (the original susp. mod), Mike, myself and many other member's input over the last too many years. I think I'll clean up the threads at some point, so it basically slaps people right in the face as soon as they click into it looking for some info.

[snoopyloopy]

ok, heeeeere we go:

Eibach Sportline: F: 1.62, 342 lb/in, R: 0.68, 80 lb/in

Here's what that means:
Front: 62% stiffer than stock. Actual spring rate 342 lb/in.
Rear: 0.68 stiffness ratio compared to stock. Yes, that means is actually softer then the stock spring. In fact 32% softer than stock. That rates in at 80 lb/in.

So, IF you got the GR-2's new, and have never run any spring other then the Eibach Sportlines or your OEM spring, then I would consider keeping them on out back, and just getting a set of HD's revalved for the front. This way you'll save on the cost of the HD rears which wouldn't net you much (if any) difference over the GR-2's. That saved $ on the rears could help offset the cost of a revalved set of fronts.

IMO, I when (if you go through with it) you call Billstein to get a set of custom fronts, I would consider requesting a 400lb rebound valving on it in order to afford you a 15+% rebound valving over the Eibach.

Another route you could consider (good luck with this one) would be trying to find a set of Koni's for the front that someone has had tucked away on a shelf somewhere, and has not used them. I would shy away from used ones unless you know exactly what springs have been used one them, and for approximately how many miles.

Regardless of what you do, pls let us know.

so assuming someone had those konis, should that person worry about revalving them or no?

[markmdz89hatch]

good question Snoop. Honestly that's topic for debate. I personally have a set of Koni's on my B&G springs up front, and while when I first installed them (about 6 years ago), they were amazing, I have to admit that before I parked the car (about 20K miles later), I felt the struts were starting to give a little more then they did when first installed.

Now, I did feel that the front was still pretty rigid, and that the softening was beginning more out back. Bare in mind too, that my B&G's are about 360 lb's out back, compared to the Eib.Sp's at 80 lb's, so we're not even talking apples to apples here. ...and chances are even the Koni's were never built to handle a 300+% increase over stock spring rate. So take it for what it's worth. Hell, even disregard this lil' tid bit as it's not too applicable. Just worth mentioning.

That said, I only mentioned the Koni's as an option because a new set should work fine for him, although at Eibach's 342 lb springs, and Koni's rumored capacity of 350~ish lb rebound, it's a nail-biter for sure. But, I'll stand behind the claim that they'll work great for him for at least a few years before (if) he notices any degraded performance from them. IF he was able to get a new set of them, or extremely low (I'm talking 5K or less) mileage set at a great price, I would encourage him to jump all over it.

If money is not much of an issue, the two best alternatives would be either revalved Bill's HD or revalved Koni's, that way you know you're running on a freshly built strut, and one to your exact specifications. Not only that, but you can get the cores for peanuts. A high-mileage set of Koni's or Bill's are basically only worth their weight in scrap, so the biggest expense will be the revalving itself.

Hope that answers your question without making it too confusing.

[snoopyloopy]

hmm ok. so now i don't remember. are the pro kit springs stronger or weaker than the sportline springs?

[w261w261]

I have Eibach and revalved Bilsteins: Here's my story, previously posted a few years ago:
--------------------------
OK, after 3 tries I've got it right. I originally ordered a set of Eibach Pro-Kit springs (1 inch drop), and a full set of Bilstein shocks. I didn't know the front Bilsteins had to be revalved (the rears are fine). Upon installation, the front of the car pogo-sticked badly, so I ordered another set of front Bilsteins, and on the advice of Jack French there, had them revalved to 100 compression, 300 rebound (the original specs for them are 46/195). This +almost+ solved the bouncing, but not quite. After the original deflection, the car wouldn't come back as quickly as I liked, but it was very close. So I sent off the original pair and had them revalved to 110/340 (about a 10% increase over try #2)). Just got them on today, and this IS the setup for Eibach/Bilsteins. Any firmer on the shocks, and the ride would be too harsh with no gain.

To me, the extra 10% was worth spending the $65 per shock revalve charge + about $28 shipping + $100 to install. But others could probably live with the 100/300 shocks.

ps: This has been a real educational experience for me. I had no idea about how important it was for the springs and the shocks to be matched correctly. I have had cars that others had modified in this way, and in retrospect, I think that most of my shocks were too firm, unnecessarily so. What you want is the initial deflection to come back and stop evenly, no more, no less. The problem is, without adjustable shocks, the process of getting to the optimal setup is expensive and time-consuming. I personally think the site here should come up with a list of shock/spring combos that have been tried and shown to be perfectly matched. That way the next guy down the line won't have to reinvent the wheel.

[Rendon LX-i]

ok, heeeeere we go:

Eibach Sportline: F: 1.62, 342 lb/in, R: 0.68, 80 lb/in

Here's what that means:
Front: 62% stiffer than stock. Actual spring rate 342 lb/in.
Rear: 0.68 stiffness ratio compared to stock. Yes, that means is actually softer then the stock spring. In fact 32% softer than stock. That rates in at 80 lb/in.

So, IF you got the GR-2's new, and have never run any spring other then the Eibach Sportlines or your OEM spring, then I would consider keeping them on out back, and just getting a set of HD's revalved for the front. This way you'll save on the cost of the HD rears which wouldn't net you much (if any) difference over the GR-2's. That saved $ on the rears could help offset the cost of a revalved set of fronts.

IMO, I when (if you go through with it) you call Billstein to get a set of custom fronts, I would consider requesting a 400lb rebound valving on it in order to afford you a 15+% rebound valving over the Eibach.

Another route you could consider (good luck with this one) would be trying to find a set of Koni's for the front that someone has had tucked away on a shelf somewhere, and has not used them. I would shy away from used ones unless you know exactly what springs have been used one them, and for approximately how many miles.

Regardless of what you do, pls let us know.

Thats what i need to know man. Thanks so much. My rear is stiff no bounce its just the front sometimes i hit a bump and i get a bounce or two and i want stiffer like the rear. BUt ill have to get custom ones like you said. which would cost me less then a set of 4.

Rendon

[mushroom_toy]

The HD Bill's should be stiffer than the GR-2's, but what springs are you running? Messy is right about matching it to your springs, not just assuming that stiffer will work better.




I'm still not completely sold on this idea. Although you are lengthening the stroke of your strut to something closer to normal (providing your car is lowered), it's still not sitting completely well in my gut. If you raise the tophats more then your car is lowered, you'll overextend the piston and either thrash the struts guts, or yank it right out of the fork. Either way, I wouldn't want to be in the car when that happens.

More to the point though, the point of the tophat mod is to be universal. It will help with any spring combo, especially but not limited to coilover setups from other cars.

Anyway, I digress, this really isn't the thread to bash the 'tophat mod', but I would hold off on recommending this until we find out exactly what springs he's using, and just what we're trying to accomplish with swapping over to the Bills' from the GR-2's.

The idea is to set the car on the ground without having the top tophat bolted to the strut. once the strut is in its normal position you raise/lower or leave the upper tophat and bolt it down. There is no over or underlengthening of the strut. You dont have a static tophat mod, that would be completely useless, and I think thats what youre thinking of. The tophat mods that weve done, or at least I have are completely adjustable.