The TRUTH about Tokico's (and more)...

[turabaka]

quick, someone type "top hat mod" in that thread and presto it is valid.

lol. Expect that the words have to be longer than 3 letters for the search engine to work.

[codyJDM]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:



Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

[mushroom_toy]

Links I posted are still alive....anyway you probably cant get the struts for $100 less than the tokis....because I only paid $15 for em. But I might be interested send me a pm Mark with the price if ya dont mind.

[mushroom_toy]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:



Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

The only problem I see with it is that it lacks adjustability, also looks a little shorter than mine, but might just be the picture...heres mine.

[2oodoor]

Mark, thank you
I love these threads, "got on the phone with the company..." , you have a gift IMO>

Also Shroom (mushroom toy), has a gift... he is extremely resourcefull and has a nickeled up a very nice working set up. I may be looking you up Shroom, when I get to my suspension, and with Mark's knowledge base threads and some brand specific specifications I may can put together a set up from less $$$

[86ccord]

Mark, thank you
I love these threads, "got on the phone with the company..." , you have a gift IMO>

Also Shroom (mushroom toy), has a gift... he is extremely resourcefull and has a nickeled up a very nice working set up. I may be looking you up Shroom, when I get to my suspension, and with Mark's knowledge base threads and some brand specific specifications I may can put together a set up from less $$$

way ahead of you chief! lol i been talkin to mushroom..

[markmdz89hatch]

Links I posted are still alive....anyway you probably cant get the struts for $100 less than the tokis....because I only paid $15 for em. But I might be interested send me a pm Mark with the price if ya dont mind.

No no, $100 more than the Toki's, but yeah, for $15 you can't beat that at all. And a whopping free99 for your c/o's, that's a deal that can't be passed up.

Let me try and work out some of the real details with the fabricator and see if this is actually a reality.

For this top-hat thing, Shroom (what the hell is your real name anyway) or Cody, can one of you try and wedge your hand up in the wheel well without jacking up the car, to measure the gap between the end of the upper control arm and the top of the wheel well?

[codyJDM]

No no, $100 more than the Toki's, but yeah, for $15 you can't beat that at all. And a whopping free99 for your c/o's, that's a deal that can't be passed up.

Let me try and work out some of the real details with the fabricator and see if this is actually a reality.

For this top-hat thing, Shroom (what the hell is your real name anyway) or Cody, can one of you try and wedge your hand up in the wheel well without jacking up the car, to measure the gap between the end of the upper control arm and the top of the wheel well?

I somehow fit my hand up in there haha, and there is sufficient room for movement without anything making contact. I made sure of that when I decided on my front ends ride height. My Ground Controls are extremely stiff and allow very minimal movement anyway.

And mushroom, I used 2" threaded couplers, I might eventually make them taller because I think I want to go lower.

[LX-incredible]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:



Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

I would use the top hat underneath... Without that plate you're putting all of that stress on the strut tower directly at the bolt heads. I also doubt that the coupling nuts you used are even grade 5. If your struts are as stiff as you claim, I would worry about this setup.

[codyJDM]

I would use the top hat underneath... Without that plate you're putting all of that stress on the strut tower directly at the bolt heads. I also doubt that the coupling nuts you used are even grade 5. If your struts are as stiff as you claim, I would worry about this setup.

My struts are Tokicos, they are not that stiff. The setup has been reliable so far, no movement, bad noises, any of that. I am not worried about it. I used Grade 8 bolts.

[mushroom_toy]

^Yeah that is a stress on the sheetmetal. Use some big washers if youre gonna stay like that. Im using 3" carriage bolts. i think you can go as far as 4" or a little more without having any contact with the hood. And btw my name is Luke.

[snoopyloopy]

I somehow fit my hand up in there haha, and there is sufficient room for movement without anything making contact. I made sure of that when I decided on my front ends ride height. My Ground Controls are extremely stiff and allow very minimal movement anyway.

And mushroom, I used 2" threaded couplers, I might eventually make them taller because I think I want to go lower.

dude, how much lower you thinking?! you'll have to remove your mudflaps for sure lol.

[codyJDM]

dude, how much lower you thinking?! you'll have to remove your mudflaps for sure lol.

I feel like tucking my front tires. haha.

[Tdurr]

I feel like tucking my front tires. haha.

me too. but i got 17's so it gonna be harder for me to not rub in the fender well...

and i wanna find some stiff struts and get some stiffer springs... wuts ur springs # cody?

[codyJDM]

me too. but i got 17's so it gonna be harder for me to not rub in the fender well...

and i wanna find some stiff struts and get some stiffer springs... wuts ur springs # cody?

I'm on 15's, so me tucking means my car is reeeallly close to the ground.

I am not aware of my Gorund Controls spring rates, I checked their site and it didn't have the 86-89 accord rates listed(or at least I could not find them)

They are well over 350 though, the car hardly moves up and down lol.

[Oldblueaccord]

Since we are talking truth the stock Honda spring rates are Moog CC248 rates listed as 278 lbs/.in. The rear Moog CC221 is 170 lbs/.in. Those are the replacement variable rate springs.


http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...20for%20BISHKO




http://bbb-carb.com/moog_Coil_Springs.htm

heres the chart.


wp

[86AccordLxi]

Jim had found that stock springs were

Stock 0”
F: 1.0, 211 lb/in;
R: 1.0, 117 lb/in

[AZmike]

Hey mark, whats up.

I have some Tokico springs brand new still in the box who would I take these to, to get the rates measured?

If you take careful measurements of the spring's geometry you should have a very good idea of the spring's rate. In one of the spring sticky threads I listed the equation. The rate is most sensitive to wire diameter so don't bother unless you can use a caliper to get an accurate number.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandard...p_designer.cfm

is this ok to use Mike?

Nothing against Jim and is numbers but he never posted a reference to where they came from. Maybe we could just add footnote to his stats with an “updated” number. Also I have a set of struts/springs here I could disassemble and have a place in town check as well. The chart list the coils as .500” and I think .485" on the rear.



wp

[AZmike]

That website probably uses the same equation. I can check the result if you can give me all the inputs (number of active coils, wire diameter, outer diameter or inner diameter). The exact material properties aren't a big deal--all carbon steels have the same properties as far as spring rate is concerned. Young's modulus is the only important one: 30000 ksi.

The equation is here:
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48185

[markmdz89hatch]

one other point to bare in mind is the thickness of the coating used on the springs (ie. powder coating, paint, etc).

Thanks for jumping into this thread Mike.

[Oldblueaccord]

I think what I am saying is that Tokicos' 10%-15% above stock is about correct using my spring rate numbers.


wp

[86AccordLxi]

Since we are talking truth the stock Honda spring rates are Moog CC248 rates listed as 278 lbs/.in. The rear Moog CC221 is 170 lbs/.in. Those are the replacement variable rate springs.


http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...20for%20BISHKO




http://bbb-carb.com/moog_Coil_Springs.htm

heres the chart.

wp

Even so, I find it VERY VERY VERY hard to believe that stock accord spring rates are 278/178#.

[Tdurr]

I'm on 15's, so me tucking means my car is reeeallly close to the ground.

I am not aware of my Gorund Controls spring rates, I checked their site and it didn't have the 86-89 accord rates listed(or at least I could not find them)

They are well over 350 though, the car hardly moves up and down lol.

did u not look at the springs? They have the hight, rate, and with printed on each spring. Jack it up and let us kno wut it says...

[frantik]

yep i have koni fronts tokico rears on sport lines springs and the back end is too bouncy.. stupid tokico crap