B20a Possibilities 200hp?

[Tomisimo]

Ok Guys this might sound like stupid another thread but I just evaluating my options here..
Well A20 is great if EFI tho, no aftermarket support in general custom build..
the B20 on the other hand has a litllebit more to offer, So I was thinking, how hard can it be to get 200Hp NA from a B20?
If I ever going to turbo a Accord it will be a A20. But this seems like an expensive option to me and lots of work and modifying.

What if I take a B20 and convert it to OBD1, get Cam gears, Tune it for bench mark. than replace injectors, Inlet Manifold, Port the top, exhaust as well as inlet, 272 Cams, and proper exhaust system.. Can I reach my set up mark of 200-220Hp from this set up?

I was doing some research on both engines, parts, prices, what I want to do etc. And B20 is cheaper, more reliable as its going to be NA..
You tell me, do I miss something?

[snoopyloopy]

yeah, it can be done. rjudgey will tell you how to build a ~200 hp a20. just wait for him to show up. but sounds like you're on the right track. headwork, obd-1 (or weber), cam gears, cams, bigger valves, maybe up the compression, exhaust, etc. but i know rjudgey has done it, so he'll have gobs more info than i could ever possibly give.

[thegreatdane]

If the person porting the head knows what he's doing I dont think 200hp on a B20A is a problem. Maybe even on stock pistons.
But if the person doesnt know too much about porting I would minimize the amount of port work and focus on getting good cams, high c/r pistons and a good exhaust and intake manifold setup.

[Tomisimo]

If you remember this thread? https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64463
Thats the guy I want to send my top if so.. I think he knows what he doing.. Anyhow I was thinking in overhauling whole engine before dropping in. C/R pistons and rods as well as new cans goes.. Dont really know about Valves, vhat fits and what size to go for.
Is there dual V.springs for B20?

[A18A]

*waits for rjudgeys post*

[AccordB20A]

b20's have dual valve springs. but lots of parts are exchangable from other motors so there is heaps of bottom end aftermarket support

rjudgey headwork and big valves will get you the power your after :):)

[Tomisimo]

^^ if this thread ever get to his ayes :D

[Tomisimo]

Looks like our friend dont look at all threads :(

[2oodoor]

he will
Do you have the motor yet? It would be nice to be able to use other heads on this block but.... how available is the EDM B20 as for finding them for parts?

[Tomisimo]

I found one for about 500baks at one JY but I'm not to sure about if its manual or an auto or if its even got the g.box but they are available. not many of them tho and getting fewer of them.
I dont buy parts in norway anyways, I order them over seas anyway so.

[rjudgey]

You'd have better luck getting from U.K. if your really serious and have a reliable car i could find you what you need and you could come and pick it up!! I would go with 2nd gen prelude for parts which should fit I'm not 100% sure but the mounts should be the same i can comfirm with Accord B20A as he's constantly tinkering with 2G lude B20A's and 3G lude B20A's.

As far as building any of the engines both have advantages and dissadvantages of getting to 200+bhp

B20A has much heavier rotational mass on the internals so combined with the long stroke it can't rev high plus the valve train can't handle the revs either 8k is the max.

A20A has much lighter crank and the valve train can handle any rpm upto 9krpm when the right springs are used, down side is high revving A20's tend to wear out the camshaft bearings quite quickly so don't expect a A20 head to last 200k miles you'll probably get 50-60k miles with servicing to the bearings at every 15-20k miles (polishing the bearings smooth again).

The bearings on either engine can be bought for A20 or ~B20 and will withstand a lot of abuse rods and pistons can be bought for either so thats not an issue.

As far as heads are concerned the A20 has better inlet ports but smaller valves, but this can be remedied by reusing old exhaust valves and machining to new size. But they have one less exhaust valve with an N/A application this is as critical but does help having bigger exhaust valve upgrade like the one i have done.

B20A head can be made to be nearly as good as the A20 and as standard has bigger valves which helps pull things back a bit they can take a little bigger too but the biggest increase is from using inlet valves from SI valves and have them machined down from 33mm to 30mm and use them as exhaust valves instead. With considerable reshaping of the port guide ramps and guide boss's on both inlet and exhaust ports you can get good flow and then you have the advantage of adjusting the cam timing with pulleys from F22 honda engines.

But with B20A from Europe were down on power from JDM ones by 20bhp this is mainly due to cam changes and ECU changes.

Really you should choose what you have more off for spares. Probably the B20A is a little smoother and definately can get around 200bhp but both would need quite a lot of maintenance and would have quite a short life don't expect more than 50k miles before rebuilding if you drive hard out of either engines. If anything the block on the A20 is more reliable but the head is weaker the B20A the head is better but the block is weaker. Shame we can't combine the two lol!! Hence why B16/18 was born had the best of both worlds the power and reliability.

[rjudgey]

For starters you need to look at alternative fueling for either engine, in the form of twin side draught carbs, or ITB's.

You need substantial headwork, and bigger valves for both.

You need, a very well made exhaust header and system and will have to be custom built.

Increasing compression is a good thing and can be done in different ways, but mostly the power is going to come from the cam, headwork, header, exhaust, and the intake/fueling system.

[rjudgey]

You need to seriously think about how much you want to spend and how good a shell you have not point doing this to a rusting hulk!! Then when you know what you have and want then we can talk more about this. You could allways get the list of parts you want, look at finding a suitable donor car for parts, and then maybe look at you coming over and staying for a bit for few long weekends to get things done. Upto you i don't mind helping you out but you have to be serious with what you want to do and what to spend.

[2ndGenGuy]

Accord rear mount on the left Prelude on the right. Front and side mounts are the same though.

[Tomisimo]

You need to seriously think about how much you want to spend and how good a shell you have not point doing this to a rusting hulk!! Then when you know what you have and want then we can talk more about this. You could allways get the list of parts you want, look at finding a suitable donor car for parts, and then maybe look at you coming over and staying for a bit for few long weekends to get things done. Upto you i don't mind helping you out but you have to be serious with what you want to do and what to spend.

I hear you on that one! Well I got good news, I have totally rust free, Ive done rust repairs on my car so there is maybe, a few spots left, but when I'm going to paint my car I'll take those cosmetic rust spots.

Anyhow I'd love to come to england to work on my car but this might need some money savings first... I found my next engine in Sweden with g.box today, engine have 75k mils on it, so I think its good start. Have called them and they say they have all wiring and ECU , but no engine mounts.
- So you say the 2G lude mounts will fit then? thats good to know, because I began thinking if buying just rubbers and press them in in old mounts. from A20.
Right now I live like 550mils from my home and my car, going school because of this economical crises.
Well, I was thinking to get serious about that build, I sick and tired to have weak power plant, and B18 is out of question as government dont allow it to be street legal.
First thing first, need to get engine from sweden and fit it under the bonnet, twin piston calipers and new brakes..Then I was planing on getting another engine or just a head, so I can have my daily driver and head to send for porting and revolving etc. Make a OBD1 swap while on engine in the car.
I dont planing it to happen over night, so it will be a project.
The plan is to use around 2-3k backs to begin with. then will see :)

[rjudgey]

B20A mounts so 2nd gen guy is that a B20A 2G lude mount or A20A mount? If it's the B20A one then bummer!!

And it's so annoying when people have engines for sale and they are not complete!!! Why the hell would you take the mounts off and bin them!!

Oh ok so working on a tight budget, well when you get into some money then let me know be glad to advise how to spend it for you!! lol!!

[A18A]

Accord rear mount on the left Prelude on the right. Front and side mounts are the same though.

does the front round engine mount fit on the back? if so you could get a 88-89 accord mount (with the long stud) and use heaps of washers to make up for the space if you use the prelude mount, might not completely do the job, but it will help lol

[MessyHonda]

i have 3 b20s.....my plan is 11:1 comp pistons better valve springs and a good port and polish should put me at 200hp

[Tomisimo]

you have 3 b20? man, this is to much, wana share?

[MessyHonda]

1 complete engine the others are thrown apart....i need more manual trannies

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

Here the dyno sheet from my B20a Turbo

[Tomisimo]

Yeah thats cool stuff there, but I think NA power have more to give than forced induction, and will live longer. another big plus is when you have inspection of the car every 2 years, they never going to see that you have more power than it says on the documents.
If police stops me, and they hate turbos here, its a big No No, they may claim smog check and legal papers of approval from States Road Department.

well I hope I made the point here, Dont think that I dont want turbo its just all that I was wining about keep me from go turbo..

[2ndGenGuy]

B20A mounts so 2nd gen guy is that a B20A 2G lude mount or A20A mount? If it's the B20A one then bummer!!

And it's so annoying when people have engines for sale and they are not complete!!! Why the hell would you take the mounts off and bin them!!

Oh ok so working on a tight budget, well when you get into some money then let me know be glad to advise how to spend it for you!! lol!!

Those are B20A mounts. The A20 mounts are very close in design. You might be able to get away with some steel spacers or some other trick to make the A20 mount work on the B20A engine. Hell, it may even bolt up.

[AccordB20A]

does the front round engine mount fit on the back? if so you could get a 88-89 accord mount (with the long stud) and use heaps of washers to make up for the space if you use the prelude mount, might not completely do the job, but it will help lol

No matt the front mount does not fit on the back, only the back one fits on the front.

And it's so annoying when people have engines for sale and they are not complete!!! Why the hell would you take the mounts off and bin them!!!

tell me about it im allways being asked to find mounts for people doing b20 swaps cause the person they imported their motor through decided not to include this mount that bracket etc. when we shipped johns motor we have him EVERYTHING :)

[Hauntd ca3]

i dont think myself that a big hp na motor will last any where near aslong as a similar hp turbo motor tomisimo
the thing ith turbos are the motor under normal circumstances is under less strees than a high comp, big hp na motor
the hp is effectively there only when you use wot, otherwise its just a low comp na motor.
where the high comp na motor has greater stress tan normal at all times.
an11:1 motor withhave static comps of 250/300 psi at a guess where a standard b20a is bout 180/200psi.
but if its just a wank of a time to get a turbo conversion legal where you are na is the way.
na motors sound way better imo aswell.
just have to rebuild them a bit more often.
wouldnt expect more than 80/90 thousand km from an 11:1 comp b20a before its time for at least a full diagnostic check.
ie leak down, bore scope and whipping off the sump to check the bearing