IMPORTANT!! oil info

[lostforawhile]

wanted to pass this on,and pass this on to anyone who has an older engine with solid rockers or solid lifters,the epa is removing the zinc/phosphorus additives that have been in oil forever, we need these additives in our oil to prevent metal to metal contact in the valve train, there is a lot of discussion about this on the hamb,which is a very old well respected hot rod site, this is a link to an additive they are recomending, you add four ounces of this at each oil change. this isn't some wonder additive, this is whats been removed from the oil. here's the link and i will add info as i hear about this,someone please add this as a sticky. http://www.zddplus.com/

[2ndGenGuy]

Does this apply to our cars as well? What about all the newer Hondas? They work the same way don't they?

[labeledsk8r]

Does this apply to our cars as well? What about all the newer Hondas? They work the same way don't they?

was about to say my gfs d16(non vtec) is set up almost exactly like the A

[ZeroLux]

You know, I had a feeling something like this was on the way. If you look at it from the car maker's standpoint I bet they are PUSHING for this change to happen. Why? It benefits them of course. Lots of people have older cars that will need this additive to continue operation, though unlike the good folks here, not many care to bother with things like that instead opting to just drive their car like it was any other. It will eventually break down, the cost of repair would be too high for some, and they would resort to looking for another car. The industry is counting on this because they are obviously out to sell more NEW cars. Since they are clearly hurting right now, I am imagining the plan is to find ways to phase out older vehicles from the road entirely, practically forcing what was once a good engine to break down due to the lack of these chemicals in the oil. I've been wondering how long it was going to take these corporations to find a reasonable way to hide behind the ever-so-popular veil of "environmentally friendly" causes to push these changes into effect to get older cars off the road quicker.

Why don't they just come out with it direct and say pre-OBDII cars aren't legal for registration anymore, it would certainly save time. It seems it's what they are trying to do anyway. My state dropped emissions testing for cars made prior to 1996 a few years ago. They don't even run the sniffer test anymore.

I personally will be looking in to this product more since I have no intentions of buying a new car anytime in the foreseeable future.

Maybe I'm just reading too far into this, but I had a hunch something like this was going to happen sooner or later. Anyone know if this will effect Royal Purple's line of engine oils?

Zero

[3rd Party]

i agree with you ZeroLux...they mind as well make pre-OBDII cars obsolete

[lostforawhile]

Does this apply to our cars as well? What about all the newer Hondas? They work the same way don't they?

pretty much anything pre obd2, i'm sure people will continue to make additives to replace it, there are way too many people with older cars and classics, i'm checking into bike oil too, most air cooled engines have the solid lifters. they will have to make some sort of oil for them, way too many on the road to not have an oil. if anybody has a solution it will be the air cooled VW guys, i'm going to buy some of the additive they are promoting on the hamb, it's been tried and tested and it puts the additves back in the oil. the good thing is there is a huge aftermarket for the hot rod guys, look at SEMA, they will have to have a solution to run their cars with solid lifters, it's the same thing our cars need.

[lostforawhile]

here's one link on the hamb, they were talking about synthetic oil vs regular, but some good discussion later on in the thread, about oils that will work, what oils still have the additive,which don't. we are in the same situation as the guys with solid lifters on traditional engines, the zinc phosphate is what keeps the tappets on the rockers from eating the cam lobes. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=335317

[Rendon LX-i]

So this goes for oil as of synthentic oil or sae or all oils.....

[lostforawhile]

I'm going to order some of this it comes reccomended and it has the zinc. I remember the "green oils" in the eighties. they are better in these high revving engines with flat tappets for the cams. http://www.bradpennracing.com/

[lostforawhile]

So this goes for oil as of synthentic oil or sae or all oils.....

all oils except a few, the car manufactures are wanting the stuff removed,because the goverment wants converters to last longer and longer. it shortens the life of newer converters. so they say screw the older cars. i just posted a link to one oil the hot rod guys like and it has the additives. A lot of VW guys use it .

[Rendon LX-i]

What are the few....i use mobile 1 fully synthentic...Lol you got me all worryed now.

[lostforawhile]

I just called summit and they carry nothing with zinc phosphate, i contacted brad penn oils to find a distributor. this is such bs they are pulling this time. Summit says the same thing about the additive.

[lostforawhile]

What are the few....i use mobile 1 fully synthentic...Lol you got me all worryed now.

you should be worried, i posted a link on the hamb a bit back, they list a few i'm checking in to the brad penn oil now. the synthetic won't help, the zinc phosphate is what keeps the tappets from eating the cam lobes, it sacrifices itself instead of the metal. been in oil for almost 70 years. the hot rods guys are furious about this, sneaky underhanded way to get our cars off of the road.we have the same problem with our tappets that they do with solid lifters.

[Rendon LX-i]

http://www.mail-archive.com/oldsmobi.../msg08239.html

Levels of zinc in oil.

[lostforawhile]

they are going to have to make some sort of bike oil with zinc or every harley on the road will stop running, so i'm going to look into that, basically right now, nothing you can buy at walmart or the auto parts stores has the zinc. best thing is to buy the additive and add it to the oil. anybody old enough to remember when castrol was green? i am,. used to be the best oil for these cars,not anymore. thats actually the reason the old logo was green. that was the zinc.

[mephi]

Just don't add too much of the stuff. It can cause problems then.

[clark_486]

this does seem a bit unfair.

[labeledsk8r]

pretty much anything pre obd2, i'm sure people will continue to make additives to replace it, there are way too many people with older cars and classics, i'm checking into bike oil too, most air cooled engines have the solid lifters. they will have to make some sort of oil for them, way too many on the road to not have an oil. if anybody has a solution it will be the air cooled VW guys, i'm going to buy some of the additive they are promoting on the hamb, it's been tried and tested and it puts the additves back in the oil. the good thing is there is a huge aftermarket for the hot rod guys, look at SEMA, they will have to have a solution to run their cars with solid lifters, it's the same thing our cars need.

the pre obdII is not a good way to put it. like i said my girls D motor(atleast all non vtec ones) have solid lifters, this is a obdII car and was built obdII since 96, alot of companys have solid lifters in cars up till mayby 02-03? this all just sounds kinda bullshit...america is allready in debt why would they find more reasons to make everyone need new cars etc etc

[lostforawhile]

the pre obdII is not a good way to put it. like i said my girls D motor(atleast all non vtec ones) have solid lifters, this is a obdII car and was built obdII since 96, alot of companys have solid lifters in cars up till mayby 02-03? this all just sounds kinda bullshit...america is allready in debt why would they find more reasons to make everyone need new cars etc etc

the oil comanies are trying to play it off, but a lot of people with older cars have seen accelerated wear on cam lobes and solid tappetts as well as solid lifters there have been a number of tech articles in hot rod magazine and other well know publications, they have done tests. the zinc that is removed is the largest metal particle in the oil, it forms a barrier between the cam lobes and the tappets. they have been gradually taking it out, now the epa wants it all out. they say anything pre obd2, the later cars have metals in the valve train that are designed to run without the zinc. they say obd2 because the converters were designed to last longer and not be compatible with the zinc containing oils. it's not BS a lot of people are pissed as hell,because they can't run oils they have for years,due to valve train damage.

[lostforawhile]

like i said before,there is a huge hot rod and performance crowd, they have the same problem with solid lifters that we do with flat tappets, also the vw guys need the zinc really bad too, I'm sure there will be a solution, there is a link to an additive the guys at the hamb reccomend. I think castrol is going to make an oil with zinc for this reason. You need to be aware of whast going on. the oil companies can say the oil meets the requirments of older engines,but the amount of zinc phosphate is so small now, that it won't last the life of the oil. the metals sacrifice themselves to protect your valve train,once they are gone,they are gone from the oil.

[lostforawhile]

Ok i called them i can get it directly from the manufacturer 46 dollars a case, plus 15 dollars shipping, not bad at all,that's 12 quarts. thats not much more then the syntec blend i'm running now. this is actually made at the old Kendall refinery in pennsylvania, from the original kendall wells. not sure if anyone else is old enough to remember but kendall was a dam good oil in the day. This is basically the same thing. these old japanese engines loved the original stuff.

[lostforawhile]

Ok i called them i can get it directly from the manufacturer 46 dollars a case, plus 15 dollars shipping, not bad at all,that's 12 quarts. thats not much more then the syntec blend i'm running now. this is actually made at the old Kendall refinery in pennsylvania, from the original kendall wells. not sure if anyone else is old enough to remember but kendall was a dam good oil in the day. This is basically the same thing. these old japanese engines loved the original stuff.
i'll see how many times it takes to go through with a data base error each time.

[2ndGenGuy]

I don't think any Honda engines have lifters. Just rockers. And I don't recall any with Hydraulic adjustments or anything...

I'm still confused though. My friend's K20A3 has "solid rockers." And by that, I mean they're not roller rockers. I think there are a few Honda engines with roller rockers, but I think that the majority are just traditional rockers. Is there something with the newer rockers that is different? Different materials or something?

[carotman]

I brought this issue to our local club last year. So far, I've been using MOTUL oil and never experienced any problem.

I think the ones that will suffer the most will be people with really stiff valve springs and high lift cams.

[2ndGenGuy]

the later cars have metals in the valve train that are designed to run without the zinc

Oh I see now. Hmm. Well if you have an 81 or older, you know that the cams on these wear out and break anyways.