Suspension newbie

[markmdz89hatch]

oh, forgot to mention, replacing shit motor mounts will also help reduce the stress on the flex/bellows section of your exhaust. Those are guaranteed to go way faster when you have shot mounts.

If the boots are ripped on your lower ball joints, then yes, I would replace them asap. Those don't get half the socket pull that the UCA's on the rear do, but would definitely affect the stability of the front end, and directly relate to added vibrations. I'm still putting money on the shocks and top-hat bushings being garbage and causing some vibrations too. The radius bushings are usually among the last to go just because there's a ton of rubber there that would have to deteriorate before you notice much play. ...and yes, the radius rod does adjust toe.

[AC439]

I think I have found more problems with the car.

So, I went to the car this morning checking around the mounts and thinking maybe jacking it up to take some pictures. I remembered I put 1/2 can of seafoam into the fuel tank few days ago and might as well put the rest of 1/2 can into the engine via the brake suction line to finish it up. So I put it in via the brake suction line.

Upon restarted the engine after 15 mins, of course I saw the typical big smoke coming out from the tail pipe. But I also noticed some white smoke coming from the exhaust manifold area ! Definitely some exhaust leak there.

So, I don't know if should I carry on with it. It seems like I have one thing to fix after another. I think I'm in a downward spiral with the car.

[markmdz89hatch]

no no, no downward spiral. Just keep reminding yourself, any of this cash you're putting in does not compare to a monthly car payment on a newer car that's not going to handle increasing mileage as well as the 3G.

If the smoke was coming from the exhaust manifold, take this opportunity to think about not just replacing the gaskets, but kill a few birds with one stone and get a header. Even a pacesetter will cost you only about $200 plus a can of high-heat spray paint, and aircraft paint stripper (the black paint they come with is garbage, and should be removed, then repainted with good paint to keep it from rusting out).

That will net you a full replacement of the existing cast iron manifold, B-Pipe, flex (trouble spot) and everything else right up to the cat.

So does your car still run strong? Do you do regular oil changes? Ever notice any milk (oil/water mix) in the drain pan when you change the oil? I'm just trying to get an idea of why you fog / foam the motor.

[AC439]

Here's the overall condition and history of the car:-

I bought the car on 9/30/1993, when it had 101k miles on it, very nice and clean back then. I have been changing oil every 3-4k miles myself and keep a log. I always use Castro 10w-30 oil. I also change the A/T tranny oil using only original Honda ATF. Never have a problem with the tranny. The car does have a bunch of things needed to be fix that can be costy including a much needed paint job and a cracked front windshield. Two power door locks actuators needed to be replaced as well. The power antenna does not work but the sunroof still works. All power windows work although I had to run extra wires to the door because somewhere along the line, there must be a contact corrosion that made the windows go up and down very slow.

Other than the paint job, the body does have some minimum rusting at a few spots. I have upgraded the headlight to better Silvania seal beams and put a relay in the circuit to gain max brightness (getting older now and eyes aren't as good as before while driving at night). I put a reman a/c pump 3 years ago and converted it to R134a and have the high pressure hose repair. A/C is running fine with the conversion. New radiator put in 2 years ago. Need to replace the water pump (leaking and I already have the pump). Pretty much everything else is stock.

The problem with the paint is a good paint job with fixing the rust is probably going to cost a fortune. The exterior look of the car will definitely stop me from driving the kids to school or park close to an entrance of anything where people will see it.

So, what do you guys think? Still a keeper?

[markmdz89hatch]

abso-friggin-lutely.

It just needs a lil TLC, but the fact that you've had it for nearly 16 years, and know every last little detail about it's maintenance history, is priceless. If it's just a DD and you're not trying to win any awards for it's paint, there are plenty of shops out there (I don't fully endorse Maaco, but it's a cheap decent paint job for the money [I can give you some pointers about getting the best job out of them without spending any more money]).

How many miles on it now?

[AC439]

As of today, the car has 257,923.x miles on it. The car was painted by Maaco before after a very minor accident. They changed out the engine hood and the left headlight. The paint now is definitely terrible and peeling off the engine hood. Please let me know how I can get the best of Maaco.

I'm also thinking about the DIY paint job (the procedure that says thin out the paint, using roller to apply 5-6 coats, sand and buff between each coat). I went to Home depot and Lowes few times, checked out the Rustroleum but their color choice is poor and the charcoal grey is the closest to my car's color.

Oh, forgot to answer about the oil. I don't see any "milk" when I change the oil so I think the head gasket is fine. I seafoam'ed it because I have heard enough about it so I want to try it and see what I can get out of it. The half can of seafoam in fuel helps and I can feel some increase in smoothness. I will be going to work in a few minutes and I will see if the 2nd part of seaform helps the car further.

[AC439]

Ok...Drove the car to work then back home. Really didn't notice much difference after the seafoam treatment sucked via the brake booster line. This may indicate the engine is in good shape and clean.

Now, back to the problems. I did the 3-9 and 12-6 shaking test again and confirmed no play. I was trying to take pics but didn't feel like getting there yet since I worked last night and now kind of feeling fussy. Thinking I have to work two nights again (Sun/Mon) I just have to delay it till mid week. Definitely the lower ball joint boots are cracked. I have also noticed the piece of rubber at the very middle bottom of the engine sitting on the beam seems to be compressed. I think if the front engine mount is shot and compressed, it will then compress the middle bottom one as well. I remember I noticed wet and oily around the base of the front mount a while ago and I was wondering where those oil coming from.

About the exhaust leak, I have more problems. On the exhaust manifold, two nut/bolts broke off from the engine block !!! They are the left and the right most bolts. So for both the exhaust gaskets for cyl 1 and 4 there is only one bolt each side to hold it in place ! This is really getting intense for me and I'm not sure if I can ever handle it.

I'm really sorry for the all the posts and the other problems are definitely not under suspension category. But I found these problems as I troubleshoot the vibrations.

-AC

[markmdz89hatch]

no worries about proper section, we're still trying to identify the cause of the vibrations... (now we just have a few other things to address).

So as for those bolts/nuts. Should I assume someone did something recently like a head gasket, or exhaust manifold gasket? Those don't just break off on their own. Have you had the timing belt done since you bought the car? Did they do a head gasket as well? If so, I'm guessing that's when the studs/nuts broke off and they just used a red gasket goo on the regular gasket, and now it's given up which is why you're noticing the leak.

That's just a guess there though.

In all honesty, that too is not a big deal at all. Those studs just screw out of the head. Are they snapped or just missing all together? To put it into perspective, think of all the guys on this board, and any other car owners that install headers on their cars? ...or replace head gaskets? In either case, the head is fully exposed without the exhaust manifold attached.

Anyway, back to the motor mounts... Yes, it does look like your front mount is shot as it's leaking fluid. This will cause the rest of the mounts to go as well, given that the front is no longer suspending the motor in the proper position. I would consider replacing all of them at some point sooner or later. The good part is that shot mounts will only really affect some idle vibrations, and that damn b-pipe (exhaust) at the flex point. Those can wait, as can the exhaust leak. Is there a noticeable sound from the area of the exhaust leak? If not, don't worry about that just yet.

It's all about priorities first, then take care of the other parts that fall under the general and preventative maintenance category.

See you have to look at the alternatives. I know it may seem a little overwhelming to look at the list of things that need to be done, but the cost of all these still amount to a fraction of what it would cost for you to buy another used car and remember that if you were to do that, you'd still be inheriting another persons problems as well. Either that, or you get a much newer car, and have to incur a monthly car payment (and I personally hate submitting the $450 monthly payments for my cars that I'm putting buckets of miles on right now).

Keep your head up, nothing mentioned here is all that difficult. Time consuming maybe; but difficult; not really.

[AC439]

Thanks for reply. I just checked the broken studs by sticking a small screwdriver into the mounting holes of the exhaust header and they both broke off flushing the head. Therefore, it is absolutely impossible to use a vice grip or something to get the remaining studs out of the engine block.

The car has not been worked on by any mechanic (except tires and wheel balancing) for a long time, at least for the past 60k miles. The timing belt has been changed twice at 120k and 190k miles by mechanics. Now i'm afraid the studs broke due to the bad front engine mount. The head gasket has never been changed or work on. The head has never been taken off from the engine. I don't think I can handle taking off the head.

Also, I don't have many sophisticated tools for repair. Regular typical tools I do have. I have an electric impact wrench. That's all. I thought of the LCA ball joints but I don't have a press for the bushings so the new LCA with ball joints and bushings in will probably cost me $100 a piece.

Anyway, I think the next thing I'd do is the engine mount and see what happen.

[markmdz89hatch]

A shot mount won't cause those studs to break. I can't think of any reason other than someone over tightening the nut, or even trying to back it off when the nut was seized on. There was probably some gasket goo on with the regular gasket, and you didn't notice the broken studs until now. Again, that's not a big deal at all.

Honestly, I would do the lca's before I did the mounts. The mounts are going to cost you a pretty penny too.

Autozone has the lower ball joint for 38.99 (Duralast, Lifetime Warranty) and Majestic Honda (www.hondaautomotiveparts.com) has it for 46.67 (link. When I brought mine to a shop to have them pressed in, they charged me $20 each. ...but you can also get a ball-joint press from Autozone (free rental thing I mentioned before) which looks like a giant C-clamp with a bunch of dies for the different sizes of ball-joints.

So it's a safe bet to say it'll be between 100-200 beans. Add another $14 to that and buy yourself a pitman arm puller to use for popping the upper control arm ball-joint from the top of the knuckles. That's a much better tool to use than the pickle-fork as there's a much less chance of destroying the boots in the process of taking everything apart.