Dual CAI for carbed models, good or bad idea?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I just had another idea for more power for my car. Don't you guys think it would be possible to run 2 CAI into the one carb? You would make the adapter to sit on top of the carb (it would look like a " Y " or a " T ") One CAI would be on each top part of the "Y" or the "T". And you could place the CAIs' in few different places. Could have one running to the air vent in the bumper (below the battery area) and the other would be in the engine bay. I think you would have to have one in the engine bay at all times because the carb will need some warm air. Or you could run both in the engine bay (would look tight as hell) I don't know the placements of them yet if they were both in the engine bay.
Does anyone know of a CAI I think from a civic that would go to that vent area of the bumper? I'm also going to put a hood scoop on my car and was wondering if you guys had any links to some sites with sweet hoodscoops. A nice ram air setup would really kick ass with dual CAIs'.
One thing I don't know is what you have to put in the hood scoop to make it so water won't get sucked in and rocks and etc...
And is there a hoodscoop that has a cover or a flap so I can "disable the scoop? I don't think I would want the scoop to be functional in the winter here. Your info would be very helpful because I'm serious about doing these projects.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Where would the best place on my hood be to put a hood scoop? I don't know where the highest pressure area is on our cars. Can someone tell me where the best spot is to put them?

[jteuton]

Ok....first off our cars rely more on velocity than total air volume. So in theory you have to have a tuned intake pipe. Most turbo application take 3 inches while most people i have heard from on 3rd gen accords like 2.5 inches on the intake side and 2.25 on the exhaust. This is tuning the velocity flow to better work with the design of the head. Now colder air is better but you still must look at velocity. Unless you have a different design head you are most likely to kill lots of power. Your car will feel very slow on takeoff. The one hot and one cold idea would fizzle too cause the hot would overtake the cold and all you would have is a hot air intake. You would be better off to design a cai to the bumper but with a bypass valve you could operate in the winter (like aem has done with water bypass valves) to shut the door on the cold air and open up a T to warm air to start the carb up right. A ram air setup would essentially be a cai cause you would be raming air into the carb from outside the hood. I can't help you with the high pressure area but somebody around here has a picture of it. I haven't thought about doing ram air on my honda but I have cowl induction on my dodge. It sucks cool air off the windshield and back threw to the 360 degree air filter. I have yet to build a heat shield for it so i doubt the cool air is helping much. Someway you have to insulate the carb from the rest off the engine so that when you close the hood the carb is only subjected to the scoop or the whole project will be useless. You also have to find a way to integrate a filter into all this. And about your winter problem on this....I know My cowl sucks a ton a rain in but it has never hurt my engine....possibly cause its a lot larger than the accords so i would a whole lot scarier sucking in water on a accord cause it wouldn't take as much. On old model chevelle and old chevy....that have a solenoid wired to a flapper door and it is controlled to come on at over 4000k although it is adjustable....you could do that and keep the car under 4 grand on rainy days and then on sunshine days rev the car out when you are wanting power and the door will open and give you the extra ram air you need. Also I think the best filter would be one that somehow sits directly on the carb. And you would have to have a base plate that surrounds it and comes up with insulation that touches the hood when closed. If this sounds confusing do a search on the internet on shaker and cowl induction hoods.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

So what you're saying is just do the ram air setup and have this funnel type thing to make all the air go into the carb. What about water getting in this funnel? Won't it go straight into the carb like the air? Please explain this?

[jteuton]

What I did is run a cai to the bumper like team del sol. But I didn't want to mess with hood but i sense that you do so this is what I would suggest....and this is going to take a lot of custom work but would be bad ass. First off you need the pic of where air flow is greatest on the hood.....You need to find the perfect spot.....it has to be somewhere in front of the carb and put your scoop. You then need an air filter to fit right over your carb to filter the air. You then need to find a way to insulate it from all the heat in the engine compartment.....so air hits the scoop....enters.....and it forced to go through your filter and straight into the engine.....this is the only way you are going to get any boost or ramming effect. Then you must take some material (sheet metal or plastic) and cut it to fit the opening on your scoop. You will have to have to rig an electric motor and relay and switch to open and close the door when you want so rain won't be a problem. I'm telling you do a search on the internet on older muscle cars. I know the 69 chevelle i think 427 or 454 i'm not sure....had a option for real cowl induction.....to get this to work they had to rig a door on the scoop to close so that sticks and rain n stuff wouldn't find there way in. They did it with a solenoid and they controlled it to come on around 4k.....so driving around the street normally in the rain the cowl did not function....but as soon as the sunlight hit and you hit 2nd gear hard....the solenoil kicked the flapper open and you got all this extra air for power......it also helps tune your car cause the higher in revs you go the more air that is needed. On newer 4v cobras they were losing tq due to the 4v head design flowing too much air at low speeds so they wired butterflies in the manifold to open at a certain rpm to give you the extra air. I'm sure this design is used on a bunch of cars.....probably a lot imports but i'm not sure which ones. But with the older muscle cars....a lot of the parts quit working but there are restoration sites where you buy the orignal working parts of the motor controlled induction scoops....you might want to check into this cause it will be easier than rigging your own electric motor. But the scoop opening at higher rpms would be very bad ass and intimidating in my opinion....you stop at the stop light....push in on the clutch....rev it to the guy next to you and the scoop opens.....much like the old roots blowers with the megaphones on older muscle cars with the three butterflies....you know.....like the dodge charger on the fast and the furious. It would be hard to pull off cause it would be a lot of custom work but it would kick ass.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I told my dad what you told me. (he's helping me with this stuff and then we're going to paint my car) And he suggested that instead of having the flaps open by a motor, maybe it would be better if it was opened and closed manually. In the winter here it freezes really bad and his worries were that if the flaps froze shut and when I went to 4000rpms that eventually the motor would get burnt out from try to open the frozen flaps. He said that if I had a like a lever (like older cars have a choke inside the car that you pull or push) so then when I wanted the flaps open I would pull the lever. But I agree that it would be fricken badass at the stoplights with the motorized flaps (very intimidating) If anyone has the same ram air setup that I'm trying to do (with or without the flaps) please post pictures of the insulator thing that you put around the carb, I'm a little confused about that still. I think A20A1 has that setup and maybe he could post the pics' of his and what material the stuff is and how to install it. Thanks

[jteuton]

Dude in this world anything is possible so i wouldn't rule out anything. Please read this.....http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/.............Read the cold air theory....maybe it will help you out......make sure you read about the function and all the parts......you can still order these parts...

[jteuton]

i'm sorry try this.......
http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/...es/rpo_zl2.htm

[jteuton]

Ok.....i just reread the article cause it had been so long ago but i had it bookmarked cause it was so good. They state the cowl induction works better cause of less turbulence. Keep in mind that we are dealing with engineers who worked for chevy and have tons more training than we do. But in all style you are probably wanting to do a forward facing scoop which in my book is still fine and will look way better. They tested on these contraptions and they tested in all cimatic conditions and they never had anything freeze. If u had the time n the patience this is a perfect setup if u can achieve it. Get u a micro swith from a nos system....(only 10-20 bucks) and wire it to the tb to come on at 90% throttle. The switch can be wired in series to a master switch in the cockpit (this is how my nitrous is wired).....in cold weather leave the masterswitch off and then the motor will not turn on no matter the postion of the micro switch. You will suck in warm underhood tempatures to prevent fuel freezing in your carb and on sunny days flip the master switch and hit WOT and the motor flips open the flapper and boom instant ram air when you need it. I really think that would be a cool project and would also get around your winter problems. Get you a solenoid instead of a motor to just pop that damn flap open....you wouldn't need a heady duty one to move a 4 oz flap. The ones on my system are 30 amp and are heavy duty and cost 80 bucks a piece but you could get some much cheaper. You could also find an electric motor for real cheap or next to nothing. I read your posts on the electric fan and don't try this.....there is no way these things will build any boost and will kill your charging system with the watts they pull. Your best route is the ramming effect that you are going now.....peace

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I think I am going to stick with the scoop that faces the front of the car. I haven't found any hood scoops with the flaps though. If anyone knows of any sites with the scoops with the flaps please let me know. I'm going to some performance shops Monday to find out how much this is going to cost me. Some more questions, I may sound really dumb here but what is the solenoid? And I was also wondering if you knew about the flaps? I wanted to know if there is a flap that covers the whole scoop (the width of it) instead of having the butterfly ones. I like the butterfly ones and I do agree that the "older scoops" are much better. And I think I have how to surround the carb. That website use like this rubber. I was thinking that I could do the same with my rectangular air box. And it would work out fine because they needed a place for the carb to get warm air when the flaps weren't open. So I could just get a different air filter so it covers my carb. Do you think one of those mushroom filters would cover the "O" ontop of my carb? Holy crap I really can't wait to figure this all out and get started. I promise when I get this done I will definetely post some pictures of it. I don't know how much dyno tests are but I might do that after I get my new carb and headers. But I'm doing this scoop before those. Oh and do you think that you can put flaps on scoops that aren't metal. I just don't think a huge chrome hood scoop is going to look good on the 3G. I was thinking like a fiberglass or a metal one that I can paint the same color as the car. What do you guys think?

[jteuton]

Oh no.....you definitely don't want the chrome blower scoop. You need a scoop sorta what ummmm.....is it a20a3?....has i'm not sure now but he posts a lot....he has a scoop on his....thats probably what you should wind up getting and paint it the same color as the car. As for the covering on the scoop you will probably have to fab something up (i did say this was going to be custom) maybe of plastic or fiberglass or sheetmetal....remember this flap is going to barely visible cause its going to be inside the scoop....somebody will have to tell you the best material to use cause i'm not for sure and then a way to connect it with hinges and to cut it perfect so that its like a doors and swings freely opening and closing the hole in the scoop. You then need to wire solenoids (like the ones they use on shaved doors although yours can be like 90%lighter.....i think they are just plunger solenoids. Anyway you can wire them to pop open the flap although this would be the harder route. An electric motor that simply raises the flap would be easy. Get a 12 volt motor and run it to grnd and then the hot thru the two switches and then to the battery. Then you must figure out how to connect the driven shaft of the small electric motor (and i am talking small....no need to get big here...enough to pull open this small flap)to the hinges or the flap to raise it. It could be as simple as a hook and string on the flap and the shaft on the motor winds the string up. In my opinion this would take 2-3 secs which is why i like the instant action you could get from the solenoids. The ideas are limitless......How about a magnetic device....that would be super quick....when the circuit completes....it energizes the magnet and.....zip....it suck the sheet metal door up instantly letting in cool air. The mechanics of moving the door should be easy to accomplishes thus getting ram air when you want which ever way you pick. The only other problem i can think of it when the scoop is shut you don't want a air tight seal going straight to the carb because without the flap open you will have no air.....YOu will have to figure out a way around this.....ditch the air tight seal or make another opening in it to let warm air in. There are several filters that will sit straight on top of the carb.. You just need to measure the base. I really wouldn't do the mushroom cause it seems like it filters from just up top....you need a good designed filter to suck it in from the side and channel it downwards into the throat of the carb.....Goodluck with whatever you do and sorry for any bad advice I might give

[Mike's89AccordLX]

When you said the solenoid from your system is a 30amp (does that mean you have the same setup as I am trying to hook up on my car? If so could you tell me what kind of scoop you chose and where some sites are with scoops that have the flaps?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Oh yeah I figured out what a solenoid was. I just don't know which one to get though.

[jteuton]

No, No....i have a cai.....my solenoids are used on my fuel system for my nitrous.....they have to be 30 amp (really strong) to hold fuel pressure back.....yours could be under an amp. Solenoids can be used for many different things. I have a plain stock hood on my accord but a 3 inch cowl hood on my dodge. I have never looked into a forward facing scoop so I don't know what your options are. I don't think you will find one with a flap. Almost ever cowl hood out there today doesn't come with anything to make it functional either. You have to rig it that way. That is why I gave you the example of the chevy cause its the only one I could think of that came stock that way. Finding the scoop (probably fiberglass....maybe plastic) will be easy and then you have to mold that to your car......ask the guy who already has one....i think there might be another that has a small scoop on his hood. But you will have to cut a whole in your hood and measure from the edge of that cut to the top of your scoop and then cut a flap out and mount it. I don't no of anybody that sells the equip to make any scoops you buy functional. YOu will have to figure out the best way to make it functional yourself most likely.

[jteuton]

ok check out this......yeah yeah....i don't like mustangs....but look on the underside of the hood......you will have to get custom and make a setup like this.....at least this is sorta what I had in mind.
www.mustang35th.com/news0113.html

[jteuton]

Here's another take on it
http://91rsramair.tripod.com

[A20A1]

Cool... I like the setup...

Make sure you have a pressure box
my box is small and it also doesn't have a fiter but if I did put in a square fiter it would be much like the mustangs... only less ducting.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

A20A1 don't you have something around your carb that touches the top of your hood when it's closed? So it forces the air into the carb. Well the idea I had was to, leave the stock airbox on without all the plastic pipes (just the metal box) and then I would find some rubber stuff to put around the edges of the air box. (oh yeah I wouldn't have the lid on the airbox) The rubber would touch the the hood when its closed. (to force the air into the carb.) But I need to make a list of all the stuff that I will need. Can you guys help me with it please? I know I need a hood scoop, rubber, and thats all I know for right now. I know I need a solenoid (do I just need one?) Some light weight stuff to make the flap or flaps. (not sure if I want one big flap or more than one small flaps, do you think I could make a fiberglass flap or maybe a carbon fiber flap?) Some switches (I don't know what switches though) Do you guys know how to hook up the solenoid up to the accelerator? So at 4000rpms the flap will open. A new air filter. Not sure what brand of filter I should get though. What do you guys suggest? Does K&N make a 6" diameter filter? Or maybe I could make an adapter and throw on a small cone filter. (right above the carb) Do you guys think I would be better off making the scoop? Where would I install the solenoid? Thanks for your help guys.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Oh yeah I will need a lot of time and hopefully not a lot of money. I think I can do most of the work myself. Only thing I'm worried about is hooking up the solenoid and the switches and the rpm level for the flap to open. My dad is an autobody and welding tech, so I'm not worried about installing it because he'll watch to make sure I do all the stuff right. He could probably make me a scoop if I wanted. I think the right spot for the scoop to go on the hood is, right above the carb. Am I right about that? And how big should the scoop be? Is there spots on the hood that I can't cut into, for safety reasons? Thanks again guys

[jteuton]

OK.....get a micro switch (sold with nos systems or you can get seperately for like 10 bucks) and a master toggle switch at a nearby parts store. Grnd the small motor or solenoid and run the hot wire thru both of your switches and then to the battery. The micro switch will tie in beside the bracket on the side of the TB....when you press the linkage down....depending on where you place the switch.....it will flip.....and then you have to have it armed in the cockpit with your master switch and the two switches work together to make a complete circuit.....in the winter time leave the toggle switch in the off position and the flap will never open.....its just like wiring nitrous setup or any simple motor setup.

[jteuton]

If you have any more ?'s just hit me up on IM ....Slamd318dakota

[A20A1]

hmm... I was thinking of something simmilar... I was going to run a thin metal strip down the second barrel and let it hang as the ground wire. When the secondary opens, the throttle plate would complete the circuit. The metal strip could also act as a guide for the fuel...


as for the scoop... you can leave the lid on... and cut a hole in the lid... you can still keep the stock filter inside the air box as well... just cut the hole in a rectangular shape, but not too big that it meets the inner edge of the filter. then just build up a edge with rubber weather striping.... get the fattest stripping you can find... or you could use some fine pored foam... and just cover the entire lid surrounding the hole.

[A20A1]

Eric... whats your take on the auxilurary... (blakkkk I spelt that wrong i know It) on the AUX. Electric Fuel jet?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

A20A1 would you suggest putting a pannel K&N filter over the hole I cut in the air box lid? So the air will be filtered at all times. How much weather stripping do you think i'll need between the lid and the hood? Where should I cut the hole or holes in the hood? Is it safe to cut through those ridge things? I think they're for safety reasons, not quite sure.

[A20A1]

I was going to use foam to make and indentation of the lid and hood. that should give me an idea of how high the walls would need to be.