i connected my line to the can from the pipe on the oil pan. i completely eliminated the black box. up top the valve cover goes to the can as well.Originally Posted by 89T
PS - PCV systems kill piston rings at high rpms. thats why catch cans are always a good idea to protect against oil burning from murdered piston rings from crankcase pressure. especially on boosted engines.
-Harvey
thats true...i pm'd your ass bout that and you never REPLIED FOO lol
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
i dont lose any oil. my can is mounted up high on the firewall. and i run amsoil. this A20 is fresh.
you dont need that stupid black box for real. thats what the can is for. besides the black box just separates the fumes from the sludge and only lets the fumes out. eliminating it allows no sludge to build up, except in the can. and if you do it correctly, you got a drain valve on the bottom of the can, and you drain it periodically. instead of letting the black box recirculate that shit back in with your oil.
-Harvey
my bad dude i f'ed up mang im sorry
haha
-Harvey
how did you plug the hole on the block from the black box?
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
to be honest i left the box on, and removed the hose from it. it doesnt leak on anything. i cleaned it out with gumcutter. love that stuff. i imagine a freeze plug would work fine as a blockoff plate though.
-Harvey
ill probably connect mine like this
1988 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe 123k miles.
and when your boosted. you take the green off the intake,cap it, then you run that to the intake turbo...so at idle its still have slight suction and at boost its sucking all the pressure out. i wouldnt tap into the v/c just put a breather on it.
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
hey CAH, if you do it the way you are sowing in the pic you will need to put a pcv valve on the green line. If you don't the car will idle high. You are introducing a vacuum leak to the intake manifold.ill probably connect mine like this
If you get vacuum from the cai before the throttle body you wont need the valve.
Also if you want to use a vacuum assist you need a sealed can No breather filter and you'll need to use a brass valve to drain it.
One more thing spend an extra $3-$4 for a 3rd fitting and don't splice the lines together.
Last edited by 89T; 05-31-2009 at 05:04 AM.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
the tube on the oil pan is meant for drain back from the separator.
I wounder, on a hard launch would the oil slosh up in to the opening and force oil in to the line?
I think I'll run 1 tube from the tube and one from the block completely removing the separator.
also re-burning the oil and vapors increases the risk of detonation.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
www.iespell.com LOL!
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
The black box is just a filter. You have a PCV Valve(Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve) witch is a filter in the top of the manifold. and the black box is also a type of filter for the oil pan. a hose runs from the black box to the manifold to relieve pressure.
vacuum pulls the pressure that builds up from the crankcase and from the oil pan so that the engine does not try and blow up, bust a seal, slide a gasket, etc...and the PCV Valve and black box keep oil from getting sucked into the manifold. It has nothing to do with water. and if there "was" going to be an oil water separator it would be in the Oil Pickup Tube. not on the vent tube
Last edited by OldSchool86; 05-31-2009 at 06:28 AM.
Not trying to be rude or anything. but you guys are very wrong. A PCV Valve is a "Catch Can" its just a really small one with a very low oil holding capacity.
a Catch Can separates and holds more oil than a PCV valve. thats all. the black box is a catch can as well.
and you are backwards, a PCV valve can not hurt your piston rings. what hurts is when you let the filter go bad and then you don't have a proper source to vent the pressure and separate the oil. I.E stay on top of your maintenance(every 10,000 miles) and you will not have a problem.
Just remember this. The most bad ass "FACTORY" turbo and twin turbo cars in the world have PCV Valves.
Last edited by OldSchool86; 05-31-2009 at 06:47 AM.
so if i read right there is a filter in the black box? If not where is it? how do i change it out? The box is sealed.
The pcv valve is just that "a valve". no filter.no catch can.
the black box is however a "catch can". this is agreeable.
It is a recirculating can witch dumps oil and vapors back in to the oil pan, but there are vapors that make it past the can and end up in the intake tract causing build up and cause a leaning effect on fuel mixture.
The only reason the most bad ass twin turbo cars have a pcv valves is because of the emission stand point.
Someone should go to HT and tell the 8-9 sec drag cars that they are doing it all wrong. LOL!J/K
although keeping a slight vacuum in the crank case will increase performance and sealing in the engine you don't want to recirculate blow by especially with bigger injectors on a boosted engine because of the contamination of fuel mixing with oil.
If you read the post i wrote for cah, i explained to him that he still needed the pcv valve and no external breather, basically a sealed system.
If he wanted a vent to atmosphere system he would need no vacuum source.
the whole point of this is to:
1)keep the contaminated oil from re-entering the oil pan
2)keep the contaminated oil/fuel vapor from re-entering the intake
3)Aide in increased ventilation.
not a point but an up side
you're oiling system will stay cleaner longer, and will not sludge up as a factory system will.
I googled pcv valve.
The PCV valve is a spring-loaded valve with a specific orifice size designed to restrict the amount of air that's siphoned from the crankcase into the intake manifold. This is necessary because air drawn through the valve from the crankcase has a leaning effect on the fuel mixture much the same as a vacuum leak. So air flow through the valve must be controlled within certain limits. At idle, air flow is reduced because little blow-by is produced. When the engine is cruising and vacuum is high, airflow through the PCV valve is at a maximum to purge the blowby vapors from the crankcase.So, to end thank you for you'r post to further educate us all on how a catch can and pcv system works.As an engine runs, high-pressure gases are contained within the combustion chamber and prevented from passing into the crankcase (containing the crankshaft and other parts) between the side of the piston and the cylinder bore by piston rings which seal against the cylinder. However, some amount of gas always leaks past the piston rings into the crankcase. This amount is very small in a new or properly rebuilt engine, provided that the piston rings and cylinder walls are correctly "broken in", and increases as the engine wears. Scratches on the cylinder walls or piston rings, such as those caused by foreign objects entering the engine, can cause large amounts of leakage. This leaked gas is known as blow-by because the pressure within the cylinders blows it by the piston rings. If this blow-by gas could not escape then pressure would build up within the crankcase.
Before the invention of Crankcase Ventilation in 1928 the engine oil seals were designed to withstand this pressure, oil leaking to the ground was accepted and the dipstick was screwed in. The hydrocarbon rich gas would then diffuse through the oil in the seals into the atmosphere. It is therefore an emissions requirement as well as a functional necessity that the crankcase has a ventilation system. This must maintain the crankcase at slightly less than atmospheric pressure and recycle the blow-by gas back into the engine intake. However, due to the constant circulation of the oil within the engine, along with the high speed movement of the crankshaft, an oil mist is also passed through the PCV system and into the intake. The oil is then either burnt during combustion or settles along the intake tract, causing a gradual build-up of residue inside the inlet path. For this reason many engine tuners choose to replace the PCV system with an oil catch can and breather filter which vents the blow-by gases directly to atmosphere and retains the oil in a small tank (or returns it to the sump), although this technically fails to meet most engine emission legislation.
I learned more about it searching the net to give an somewhat educated answer.
BTW you were not being rude.
Last edited by 89T; 05-31-2009 at 08:56 AM.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
X2 the man said it all...couldnt said it any better myself. STOCK HONDA PCV is crap...doent work well. you rather have the can inline with it instead of that crap going back inside Gumming shit up.
1. Stock PCV system lets oil as well as vapours to get into the comb. chamber. becasue the vacuum from the intake manifold at idle is too strong. The oil there (which you can see if you unbolt the intake manifold and take a look inside) is the bad part, becasue it makes the explosion suitable for detonation (you find that out when you start advancing the timing). People recommend installing a catch can on non-turbo cars too, due to that same oil going into the comb.chambers, and making crappy explosion, which causes loss in power. Detonation - that's the harm when you start making more power out of an engine.
2. you can not just install an inline filter - it won't work. (Shall I explaing why? ). That's what the catch cans are for.
3. using the turbo inlet as a source of vacuum does not decrease the turbo life. The oil that's being sucked with the vapors even help for the lubrication of the compressor. If you're concerned with the temperature of the vapours causing compressor seals to go bad, then I'll remind you that all turbos work in the heat anyways. Also those vapours have almost no contact with the seals (take a turbo apart, and you'll see why). However, that bad part (again) is when that oil gets burned into the engine ...
4. Don't even start with the mith that the oil from the PCV could seal scratched cylinders inside the comb. chamber, and therefor provide better compression and rise the power a bit .... because that tecknique is used only when you do a compression test to check the condition of your pistons/rings/cylinder walls
SOrry not beenign a dick LOL..getting way into it. but you get the point bro.
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
hm so i can just connect that green line to the bung on my short ram?
1988 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe 123k miles.
you should not lean to the internet to educate your self. anyone can post what ever they want on the internet weather its true or not. my education comes from years of hands on and ASE certifications.so if i read right there is a filter in the black box? If not where is it? how do i change it out? The box is sealed.
The pcv valve is just that "a valve". no filter.no catch can.
the black box is however a "catch can". this is agreeable.
It is a recirculating can witch dumps oil and vapors back in to the oil pan, but there are vapors that make it past the can and end up in the intake tract causing build up and cause a leaning effect on fuel mixture.
The only reason the most bad ass twin turbo cars have a pcv valves is because of the emission stand point.
Someone should go to HT and tell the 8-9 sec drag cars that they are doing it all wrong. LOL!J/K
although keeping a slight vacuum in the crank case will increase performance and sealing in the engine you don't want to recirculate blow by especially with bigger injectors on a boosted engine because of the contamination of fuel mixing with oil.
If you read the post i wrote for cah, i explained to him that he still needed the pcv valve and no external breather, basically a sealed system.
If he wanted a vent to atmosphere system he would need no vacuum source.
the whole point of this is to:
1)keep the contaminated oil from re-entering the oil pan
2)keep the contaminated oil/fuel vapor from re-entering the intake
3)Aide in increased ventilation.
not a point but an up side
you're oiling system will stay cleaner longer, and will not sludge up as a factory system will.
I googled pcv valve.
So, to end thank you for you'r post to further educate us all on how a catch can and pcv system works.
I learned more about it searching the net to give an somewhat educated answer.
BTW you were not being rude.
a new pcv valve rattles when it is new and does not when it is bad. meaning it is clogged. IT WORKS THE SAME AS A FILTER. the manifold sucks from the black box it does not dump into it.
look 89t i just want to say that i've got no beef with you. so please dont have any hard feelings. but im sure you got your info from wikipedia. sense its in there word for word. well go back to wikipedia do the same search and press the edit button. once you do that you can type in what ever you want and press save. you can put in there that you invented it and it will save it for all the world to see. and the black box is channeled if you cut one in half. keeping oil from being able to rise and be sucked. any way that you keep something being able to go through something is a process filtering.
so no it does not have a removable filter. BUT. it does filter.
Last edited by OldSchool86; 05-31-2009 at 11:35 AM.
good thread. lol
WRONG.. Nothing against you...but just cause you have a BAGDE saying your ASE doesnt me your the shit bro im sorry. I learned form guys that have 400hp hondas. SO you telling me using the stock system works LOL. your crazy. i would say by by to your motor if you think so. I learned you have to COMPLETY REDO it for the fact that your ring/ring glads well OWN YOU....So just cause your ASE buddys think its right just keep doing what your doing lol. I have plenty of buddys running vented catch cars or by the kit for b series dont dont have the black box. Not to be a dick but you better go back to your ASE buddys and teach then how it is. Its. AND dont throw that to are faces. I know shit they dont know and i dont know shit that they know.
IM not beening rude but just stating bud.
RENDON
ps. Keeping the block box stock under boost wont work. na ya...but when it comes to boost no. N/A depending how much HP your laying.
Last edited by Rendon LX-i; 05-31-2009 at 12:32 PM.
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
ill wont talk anymore....Ill just hand you this and READ
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1199935
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
i know the manifold sucks into the box and i also know that any oil or vapor that is separated in the box dumps/drains back into the oil pan via the tube on the bottom of the separator. I also want to point out the reason the pcv valve gets clogged is because of the contaminants that is being drawn through it into the manifold. a spot where the turbulence is greatest will tend to collect the most amount of contaminants.
So if i go with what you said about the pcv valve and you're explanation that it's a filter.
Would it be fair to say that the vacuum line from the box to the pcv valve is a filter also. I have seen them clogged before.
I read just about the same thing from a number of other sources, prior to cut and paste and quoting.
I don't get into the habit of reading one thing and thinking it is the gold standard.
so ya..
And you are right separator, filter = same thing.
I have no beef with you either and I don't get mad, I like a healthy debate weather i am right or wrong. If you are right all the time you don't learn anything.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
yea. unless you want a breather/filter. then you just hook the lines to the catch can and thats it. no vacuum line.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
X2 DING DING DING...we win LOL. just take it in bro. smell it breath it. Your just wrong and where right.
200+ ALL MOTOR LS VTEC
hmm so i can just hook it up like this and it will be fine? it doesn't need the vacuum?
1988 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe 123k miles.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks