Tomisimo's Black.87.Sedan B20a Build Thread

[Tomisimo]

Well I managed to take the head off today, in small 4 hour window before it started to pore rain again. I was shocked when I seen whats in there..

well look for your self










Almost all exhaust valves are bent and few intake valves. But anyways, the pistons had so much coal on them that I dont see any other choice than to rip it apart and rebuild the whole engine. Its just no point to change valves and guides and leave everything like it is.
By that means, my A20 is going in soon, so I can drive it at least...
Feels like crap, because on 40$ belt can do so much damage...

[Nafs Asdf]

Damn
makes me wonder what mine looks like inside

[chillphillyphil]

hrmmm......

[AccordB20A]

man that motors not looked after whatsoever i see why u asked me for a new one lol

[Hauntd ca3]

just sell him a head eh man.
prob cheaper to ship one to him than recon the thing.
bad luck tommi, duz suck a bit snapping a belt

[markmdz89hatch]

yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the white (H) valves are the intakes, and by the looks of the pics, they're all shot b/c they all look to have touched down on the pistons. All of the Exhaust valves look good though based on the pics.

....but the bad news. All of the pistons have made contact, and therefore, I would replace all pistons too if I were you. ...or at least get all the carbon off them and see how marred the face of the piston is. Cyl 4 looks to have taken the worst of the damage, and looks like it's really F'd.

But this could be a blessing in disguise because that head was dirty as hell, and by the looks of the headgasket, it looks like you had some mixture of oil & water, so it was only a matter of time.

I would first just try to find a new motor running and tested, and before you put it in, be sure to replace the t-belt, water pump, and pull the head to be sure the pistons are good there's no signs of contact on the valves, then put it in.

IMO, your original motor (pictured) should be pulled, and have the block bored out .20 over, new pistons, rings, water pump, main & rod bearings, head gasket, etc (basically a full rebuild), and inspect the journals on the crank for any scoring and decide if the crank need any reconditioning. The head will need to be completely disassembled and all intake valves replaced and exhaust valves inspected and replaced as needed. The head should be dipped and thoroughly cleaned, and I would also make sure the intake guides are all still true (again, replace as necessary). While you're at it, get a full valve-job on it (once you get the new valves) to make sure you're getting a perfect seat.

That'll get you one bad ass motor.

[Tomisimo]

I know Mark, This engine is busted. So by that means that I will put my 12V in it and drive as is for now, because I need a car and its kinda boring to walk every where.
I have been to a machine shop and got an price to look at, well the whole job would cost me 1.4K $USD, thats for machine wash, milling of the head, bore for valve settings, changing to bronze valve guides, stage 2 port on both exhaust and intake sides, and assembly.
Havnt asked for a complete price for engine block yet. Overbore, hone, wash, check and crank balance. But I guess it will cost as much if not more.
Mark, kan you ask your machine shop about what the price would be to bore out B16a pistons from 21mm to 22mm wrist pin. I thin thats would be a good idea when I heed to change pistons anyways. And I was thinking to buy B16a pistons with 10:1 CR so I increase overall compression to 12/12.5:1. Did B18C rods fit our crank or? because if they do, than I dont need to bore out to 22mm. I can just use those rods instead.

[thegreatdane]

Hold your horses now mate.
I really doubt that the engine block part of your engine has suffered any damage from your valve collission.
Their may be parts that need to be replaced (bearings in specific) but that is going to be because of normal wear and tear (or unknown previous abuse). As you mentioned the car has done a lot of miles.

If I were you and I was really strapped for cash and just needed to have the car running for a year or two more without doing any mods to the engine I would just check the bearings and replace as necessary, then replace all the valves with a set of used valves together with a valvejob and make sure the valve to valve guide tolerances is within specs or very close to.

But if you are perfectly happy spending the cash on building the engine from the bottom up that's fine as well. And your build ideas sound sweet anyway. I was just getting the impression that you werent very fond of spending a lot of money on this right now.

BTW. all the carbon build-up and small valve marks on the pistons don't mean ANYTHING.

[Ichiban]

I would still take the opportunity to measure everything and freshen up with new honing (bore if req'd), rings, bearings, seals, and obviously the top end work. Why fix half of the engine when you can go through it all. Bearings and gaskets really aren't that much more, and you get a basically new engine out of the deal.

[thegreatdane]

As I said: "If I were you and I was really strapped for cash..."
It doesnt have to be a half assed job just because you dont replace every single part of the engine.
Anyone would want to do the full rebuild together with new performance parts if they had the choice.

[Tomisimo]

Yeah, I'm really low on cash now. to much expenses nowadays. So I dont have time to rebuild head right now so thats why I'm swaping A20 in it and will gradually rebuild this B20. Thats the plan anyways. I know everyone wants to rebuild with performance parts and all, but I will try to keep price to the minimum by using original parts and rather do great work on the head, intake and exhaust. The bottom end will have to wait, only bearings and B16a pistons will go in. nothing more. I were checking and find that original B16 pistons cost no more than 60USD a set on eBay.

And Marthin can you help me to convert to OBD1? I really dont have a clue when it comes to electronics, I'm more mechanical type.

Engine will have some attention, but no more than it needs to be done, because the body need some loving to, rear quarters needs to be welded, and trunk because I have a hole there, and that spoiler is so heavy that it fkup lock mechanism, so mount with ear needs to be rewelded as well. some minor rust spots needs to be threated before its to late. dont want any cancer on this car. Plus wind shield needs to be changed, after 22 years with ice scraping, cant see a shit when I meet other cars on the road at night. If you ask me, I have more than enough to think about ehh..

[carotman]

I agree with Marthin, the bottom end is probably 100% fine. (Well, fine in the way that it hasn't been damaged by the valves)

[wprocomp]

yeah it looks ok to me-1.4kusd is a joke for a head build there's bound to be someone else cheaper than that dude. If your going to rebuild the motor B16 pistons will be a good upgrade-but make sure you replace the rod bearings if anything at all just make sure and plastigauge them you may have to machine the crank.

[Tomisimo]

IDK guys, but it looks more ok on pick than in real life, up close pistons looks dented. I hope they didn crack tho, its kinda hard to see underneath all carbon build up. But I'm going to disassemble whole engine in bits and pieces and give it nice wash before I judge anything. But I will use this opportunity to change rod and crank bearings so I can go over to fully synthetic oil.
Tell me guys, dos B18c rods fit our crank, and do they have the same stroke if I'm upgrading to B16a pistons? What is highest CR will work with B16a pistons before interfering with the valves? I think that is simple and cheap way to increase power in this engine. And yes 1.4k is stupid price but since I live in Norway, there is only handful of such tuners that do kind of work, and they are good at what they do. But this have to wait anyhow.

[carotman]

Hopw many miles does the engine have?

I noticed you have PJ5 pistons, interesting! This is a B20A1?

BTW, you can use other B series pistons if you bore out the piston pin. I have Integra Type-R Pistons in my B20A.

Just clean the top of the pistons for cracks. Check the bore size if it's oval. Since you're on a tight budget, don't overdo anything if it's not necessary.

[Nafs Asdf]

Hopw many miles does the engine have?

I noticed you have PJ5 pistons, interesting! This is a B20A1?

BTW, you can use other B series pistons if you bore out the piston pin. I have Integra Type-R Pistons in my B20A.

Just clean the top of the pistons for cracks. Check the bore size if it's oval. Since you're on a tight budget, don't overdo anything if it's not necessary.

How can you tell they're PJ5's? All I can see is part of a P, something that could be both the end of a J or the left leg of an H, and something that resembles either a 5 or a 3... I vote PH3.

But if it really is an A1, damn good catch... Would've never noticed the letters without you saying that.

The suspension rises while we wait for Tom to check...

And carot, totally off topic but feel like giving me some advice later on when I'm converting to a PJ5 JDM ECU with the electronic advance, maybe in July? Didn't you do this too, but to a PK2 ECU?

[Tomisimo]

You are indeed right Carot its PJ5 pistons, hmm, what dos it means then? While block says B20a2.
edit: this engine has around 170k mils on it.



And some more up close shoots, just to show why I think those are dented.
Those are werst piston 4 3 (^up there^) and 2

[Nafs Asdf]

According to the shop manual and EPC, the B20A2 should have PH3 pistons... So I guess they've been swapped?

[Tomisimo]

Thats possible, maybe back in the day someone tried to tune it. This car were imported from belgium so who knows I also found that top gasket is not fully the same with all oil and water channels, maybe I find more surprises with this car, Now I'm wondering what ECU it has, so next thing tomorrow I will check that too.


or it supose to be like that?

[Tomisimo]

I would still take the opportunity to measure everything and freshen up with new honing (bore if req'd), rings, bearings, seals, and obviously the top end work. Why fix half of the engine when you can go through it all. Bearings and gaskets really aren't that much more, and you get a basically new engine out of the deal.

Indeed, you thinking in my tempo, why not, yes it will take more time as money dont grow on bushes, but I have strong A20 to move it while I'm at it. Will have to hear about what it would cost to hone cylinders. and I will never in my life put new pistons without new rings on them, I had bad experience with that before.

[carotman]

170k miles or 170K km? (huge difference). If it's 170k miles, I would think about a bottom end refresh.

PJ5 pistons could have come from the factory, it's just a stamped number after all. My B20A had PK2 pistons.

Don't worry about the oil/coolant channels in the gasket. It's all fine.

[thegreatdane]

Yea the headgasket looks absolutely normal. You have an engine block heater

And Marthin can you help me to convert to OBD1? I really dont have a clue when it comes to electronics, I'm more mechanical type.

Sure, but best wait till you get the B20A back in. You can start collecting parts for the conversion though.

I noticed you have PJ5 pistons, interesting! This is a B20A1?

Nothing ever gets past your x-ray vision does it?

[Tomisimo]

Carot, the car has clocked 270k kilometers or 170k mils, so this is pretty far. I think bearings needs to be replaced anyway.

Marthin, can you give me parts list? of what do I need for OBD1 swap? And what do you think is best? over internet or me sending you pats or me coming to Denmark to do this swap?

I have a lill Idea for you and Naf, what if we do a meet in sweden? you in your nice silver, hem in hes cool red and me in my black accord. next summer or something Do som like B20a meet

[Hauntd ca3]

he also has a water cooled oil cooler.
that funny thing between the filter and motor with 2 hoses sticking out.
i dont have one

[Nafs Asdf]

Carot, the car has clocked 270k kilometers or 170k mils, so this is pretty far. I think bearings needs to be replaced anyway.

Marthin, can you give me parts list? of what do I need for OBD1 swap? And what do you think is best? over internet or me sending you pats or me coming to Denmark to do this swap?

I have a lill Idea for you and Naf, what if we do a meet in sweden? you in your nice silver, hem in hes cool red and me in my black accord. next summer or something Do som like B20a meet

I like the idea about the meet
Where about in Norway are you? We should find a place about the same distance away for everyone, maybe a camping site or something.