If the megan rear lower tie bar works, why doesnt the dc sports?

[JFern]

ya i noticed we strayed pretty badly (and didn't answer the question as to why he dc bar doesn't fit) I would not be opposed to breaking it up

[mykwikcoupe]

tell me what you want it changed to and Ill change it. you answered my question great. It seems to be unanimous that its beter to reinforce the stock situation than add a modifier. Plus I would hate to start cutting into my car. i dont mind changing it. Just let me know. theirs no reason to add more threads just to clutter up the board. Thanks for the help guys and great info in here

[stat1K]

it would be great to change the title and remove the clutter posts and make it a sticky for informational purposes.

[markmdz89hatch]

alright, it's unanimous... It'll be changed and as stat1k suggested, I'll clean out the poo-poo posts. No sticky yet as this is just theory and not proven application on our specific cars... ...but as soon as we get some of these theories tested and proven, I'll toss a sticky on it.

[Strugglebucket]

see all the fun I miss when I'm away from the computer for the weekend....

Oddly enough, I just spent about 1.5 hrs on the phone with a friend of mine that's a crazy racer. He's been racing things like EVO's and his current 350Z, but is working with a good friend of his to tweak a CRX. We spent all that time working on this very same issue.

He's currently running a 450/350 lb rating (front/back) and is getting (an I paraphrase his claim) "great bite on turn-in, and pretty much flat at apex, but on exit when I'm heavy on the right foot, it just plows and gets crazy understeer."

Anyway, he wants to spend as little as possible and keep using as much as he can that's currently on there. He's also got a decent sized rear anti-sway bar and upper strut bar. Up front pretty much the same thing. After so much time, we got out of him that it's not so much a matter of bouncing or even riding his bumpstops through the turn, but more-so that he's getting too much 'push' from his ass end and not enough traction to his front wheels.


This "push" is not happening so much because of his front end being too stiff, but more-so because his ass is still too soft (compared to the front) and it's getting too much traction.

Just as a test, we're going to have him disconnect the endlinks on the front bar and run it like that. Just to see if he's got any chance of keeping the 350 lb springs out back. Honestly, we're both at the point that we're telling him he needs to bump up the rear springs to more like 650-750 lbs and he'll be able to keep everything else as is (for now).

I think with the lighter weight of the CRX, 450lb springs in the front should be plenty stiff enough to allow removal the front sway bar without any issues of running out of suspension travel (assuming it's not super-slammed). What kind of temps is he getting across the tires? And what kind of alignment? I would be checking that first. Another cheap way of getting more weight transfer to the rear would be to raise the rear ride height.

What it comes down to is that if you're starting to rotate the ass end around (not just break the ass end loose) on turn entry, you're going into it too fast. ...and possibly the same speed as you would enter the turn with an 'understeer' setup. The real difference is once you reach the apex, instead of playing the waltz on your throttle because you're trying to get your front end to bite enough to get the front tires to do what they're supposed to do, if the front is soft enough to keep good bite on both drive wheels, once you stomp the throttle on exit, you can just keep slamming it as hard as you want to and you'll stick the turn. If the ass starts to come around once you've started your turn-out, that means you hit an early apex.

When I took my first skip barber course, my instructor said the single most common problem of all racers starting out (I'm in that boat, and was definitely guilty of this) is too early of an apex. This took the top spot above "too fast on turn entry". (Cool Runnings: "Slow in, fast out.") He did say that too fast of an entry usually has a root cause of too early of an apex because the driver is planning on getting to (and thinking: also getting through) the turn. The problem is that too soon of a turn-in/apex and too fast of an entry usually means feathering the throttle and/or a quick tap of the brake or clutch-touch, and hence a significantly slower exit speed.

I should add that I'm speaking from an autocross perspective, because I'm a poor bastard and that's the only type of motorsports I can afford. On an autocross course, I would say 90% of the time the fastest way around is NOT one that optimizes exit speed. Most of the course is corners linked together, and usually this means hugging the inside to cover the shortest distance and keeping your speed up as much as possible. "In slow, out fast" is kind of the exception to the rule and part of the challenge seems to be finding the few places where it is advantageous to "give it up" because you actually have space to use the exit speed. Not that you drive "In fast, out slow" (or backwards), more like "in medium, out medium, give or take according to what's coming next".

[b20a86lude]

.a also on the front if you have the lude control arms, you can box the control arm with plate steel and make it a lot stronger too.[/QUOTE]

PLEASE EXPLAIN MORE BETTER IM SO CONFUSED AND I CAN PICTURE IT AT ALL IN MY HEAD

[markmdz89hatch]

.a also on the front if you have the lude control arms, you can box the control arm with plate steel and make it a lot stronger too.

PLEASE EXPLAIN MORE BETTER IM SO CONFUSED AND I CAN PICTURE IT AT ALL IN MY HEAD[/QUOTE]

Give me a few mins and I'll make up a very quick MS Paint drawing...