Nars Accord Hatch

[scars_of_carma]

For a low cost seat option, you might consider mounting up a ('88-'91) 3g prelude seat for the driver side at least. Minimal mods required, (there is a "how to .." around here someplace) and they have MUCH better side bolsters! (driver side has adjustable sides on the seat back!) I've even heard they were designed for Honda by Recaro, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. They are much better for spirited driving though!

Just sit down in one and play around with it for a few minutes and you'll see it's WAY better for this type of driving! You dont even have to be driving around to feel the difference.

*nods* a seat upgrade is a must! I have some TII RX7 seats I was thinking of putting in... but they are leather and I think they would look really odd in this car lol. Besides leather is noisy as fuck.. creak-creak-creak...

car looks good bro

Thanks I will be doing some more rattle-can paint work soon... and then probably a cheap custom paint job. Function-before-form keep the haters in the rear-view mirror right?

Anyone have any good pics of paint-schemes from Honda racecars?

[scars_of_carma]

by having an intermediate shaft the longer axle is shortened by adding an extra hardpoint on the engine, reducing the difference in angle and torque of the axles.

Equal-length halfshafts would reduce torque-steer correct? Has anyone adapted an intermediate shaft from another Honda to a 3G? If so, which other Honda's have one that can be swapped over?

[markmdz89hatch]

Equal-length halfshafts would reduce torque-steer correct? Has anyone adapted an intermediate shaft from another Honda to a 3G? If so, which other Honda's have one that can be swapped over?

No one has done it yet. The biggest trouble we have is finding a place to mount the intermediate shaft to block, and the tooth count on the spline is different between the B's and A's.

...but now that I think of it, I wonder if the B20A3 in the Prelude's (3G 'lude) uses an intermediate?

I'm pretty sure I have a B18 intermediate shaft hanging out in my garage because I had been wanting to try and mock this up too. I'll check it out when I get a chance.

[scars_of_carma]

Based on my runs so far these are the tips I've learned with my setup.

-Don't overdrive this car because you won't go any faster.
-Keep wheelspin and torque-steer to a minimum.
-Don't overrev it! Use the throttle smoothly for best accelleration. It is better to shift up early and shift down late.
-Because of my springs my car has very little forward-aft weight transfer. I don't need to worry that much about the rear drums locking up because of minimal brake dive. Even so I stay prepared for it.
-I don't need to worry about the front end getting light either. (unless I hit some harsh bumps) What do I worry about the most is maintaining lateral grip in the tires.
-I am still using OEM-spec tires but I have more negative camber up front. Unlike a performance tire I consider the turn-in limit of these OEM tires to be the actual limit. However if I drive it a certain way I can make the negative camber work to my benefit... briefly! I have to be kind of harsh with weight-transfer on the tires to make them grip well. However if I do this too long the tires start to overheat. This limits how much speed I can carry through long sweepers but it feels like a go-cart on tight corners.
-My main theory for why this car handles surprisingly good is because of its footprint. Imagine the corners of a box on the 4 contact patches of the tires. The width-to-length ratio of this box is very good for overall handling performance especially with FWD. I dunno why I know this is true its just intuition.
-Someday I will try and quantify this but in the meantime that's my opinion. It's hard to upset this cars balance. The car just feels "settled". For example it doesn't exhibit any unstable yaw movements which is more then I can say for any RWD I've previously owned but perhaps I just haven't exceeded the limit of the chassis yet... only time will tell I want better tires to find out.

I can see why people look down on Honda owners

Also, based on comparison-tests I've read in magazines recently featuring street/track driven Honda's I can see why people look down on Honda owners... it is just sad to see guys spend thousands on motor swaps, rare wheels, coilovers, aero parts, whatever... and completely overlook brake balance, chassis balance and suspension setup. Sure it looks fast but it's really more like a deathtrap. For instance in one test the guy didn't know how to mount his catchcan and it started leaking a LOT of oil under high G's. So much so it actually got on the rear tires in a turn causing instant, catastrophic oversteer. Luckily for the owner it was a professional driver behind the wheel or his Honda would have ended up crumpled against a wall...

If I had one half the build-budget of some of these "tuners" my car could drive circles around them. *sigh*

[markmdz89hatch]

Also, based on comparison-tests I've read in magazines recently featuring street/track driven Honda's I can see why people look down on Honda owners... it is just sad to see guys spend thousands on motor swaps, rare wheels, coilovers, aero parts, whatever... and completely overlook brake balance, chassis balance and suspension setup. Sure it looks fast but it's really more like a deathtrap. For instance in one test the guy didn't know how to mount his catchcan and it started leaking a LOT of oil under high G's. So much so it actually got on the rear tires in a turn causing instant, catastrophic oversteer. Luckily for the owner it was a professional driver behind the wheel or his Honda would have ended up crumpled against a wall...

If I had one half the build-budget of some of these "tuners" my car could drive circles around them. *sigh*

YES! Thank you. ...but that's not exclusive to Honda owners. The thing is the Honda's are built for daily drivers by the factory, not performance machines. ...and consider the public buying them. They're cheap to buy and cheap to 'build'. ...and there's millions of them out there. Combine all that, and of course there's going to be a lot more exposure to these, and with that will come stupid decisions on 'builds'. Nobody is doing this to other cars because 1.many other cars are too expensive 2.there's not a club-like following for them, so you can't swap stories as easily 3.there's not as many cheap options for them 4.there's just so damn many of them still out there (because it's tough to kill them) that it overshadows most other brands.

Anyway, as you were a Bimmer driver, you know that even in the 70's, BMW had an eye on performance and still had a very deep-rooted racing heritage. They were also expensive to purchase, and very expensive to maintain/repair. So the car was better built to brake/steer,etc properly, and not any 'kid' could just pick one up and start throwing tons of cheap parts on them. Therefore, they remain out of the 'stupid spotlight'.

That's part of what I love about these 3rd Gens. They were right on the cusp of aftermarket support as the import craze came to be. So all the aftermarket companies just ignored the car. Get a '90 and it's a whole different ball game. Cheap parts galore. So, the 3G was a turn-off to the whole 'import tuner' crowd because there was little/no aftermarket support. Thus, they were left alone (for the most part) and left for other people to stumble upon and realize the potential and fun of this chassis. ...and then decide to just deal with the limited support on them.

[scars_of_carma]

That's part of what I love about these 3rd Gens. Thus, they were left alone (for the most part) and left for other people to stumble upon and realize the potential and fun of this chassis. ...and then decide to just deal with the limited support on them.

Exactly! I want to kick some civic/integra ass...

[Sh4d0w]

Exactly! I want to kick some civic/integra ass...

x2

[Rendon LX-i]

I already DO HEHEHE. and some. And yes the ludes have the shaft.

[scars_of_carma]

My roommate has been working on a TII FC and an R1 FD in my garage for weeks so lately I haven't been able to do anything but basic repairs and maintenance on my hatch. It's funny how quickly I get bored with a particular setup I'm already antsy to make more changes.

I installed a thermostat. The car seems to like it it hasn't overheated at all since... it may have just been an air-pocket problem around the sensor. Even the idle has improved... I'm guessing there is some kinda thermowax pellet somewhere?

Also I've learned that lowering a car on 70 series tires is not very wise. If you have a blowout the subframe will drag and scrape which makes steering difficult. This happened to me the other day on the freeway but at least it wasn't the touge lol... man I need to get rid of these old tires. They are not safe!

[scars_of_carma]

So I got some new tires but they are lame I don't recommend them... Falken Sincera SN-828's... are there any decent tires in a 13"? These feel like they have no sidewall stiffness at all

Also, car is still overheating after about 400mi from a random high-pressure leak that I can hear but I can't see...

Car still has random shitty idle too... I wanna fix these issues.

[scars_of_carma]

Well the overheating issue has reached a critical phase... I was trying to do an errand yesterday in 50 degree weather after only 200miles since topping off the coolant and it started to overheat again so it's gotten worse.

My mechanic and I went over some theories and we believe the water pump failed. (Steam and coolant were emerging from the weep-hole) The high pressure leak I've had for a while is probably the early signs of head-gasket failure... which seems true cause when I drove it home afterwards (after topping off the coolant again) it overheated and I saw/smelled smoke/steam from coolant/oil emerging around the head itself. The motor felt very sluggish, and later after I let it cool down it had trouble starting again. No white smoke as of yet though?

[2ndGenGuy]

There are decent 13 inch tires. You just have to go with like 255/40 R13s and run 10 inch wide rims. :-P And I dunno how street legal they are.

[scars_of_carma]

So yeah, I got about 30 miles today before the temperature spiked, the car sputtered and stalled and wouldn't start again.

[scars_of_carma]

So I pulled off the water pump last night (why do I have to remove the front cover to remove the goddamned water pump?!). It does not appear to be in that bad of shape actually... its not covered in rust, the bearings have life in em, there's no play in the shaft etc. (It has probably been running dry though) I also removed the thermostat to test it and it works... so at this point idk?? *scratches head*

I'm pretty sure the headgasket is still toast... but I wonder if there's a clog or something elsewhere thats preventing the coolant from circulating?

[scars_of_carma]

When I first got the car running I had to install a new radiator so in the process I drained all the coolant out of the system and flushed it with a hose for like a half hour... I must've flushed out the radiator 15 times as well... so I got the new coolant mixture as clean and fresh as I could. Even so ever since the car has been running the coolant has been brown/rusty.

Also before I started driving it I had to replace the intake gasket and in the process I pulled that intake tube out of the water pump housing to check out the water pump and it was caked with rust inside. I chipped it all off with a screwdriver as best I could so I don't think any of that shit ended up in the block but who knows?

I think hat fact that car sat for 8 years with old coolant in it probably corroded something I can't see in the block or the head perhaps?

Anyways the car is safely back in the garage and I am in full dissasembly mode now...

[scars_of_carma]

Well I just pulled the head off... and it wasn't the headgaskets fault. One of my head bolts was completely loose! It's as if it was never tightened at all???

[scars_of_carma]

So I planned out the next phase(s) of my project.

Phase II Hopefully done this year... *means I have it or have done it already

- Headwork (basic shave and rebuild.)
- ARP Headstuds
- OBD1 Conversion
- Upgrade fuel system. (Bigger pump, larger hard lines w/ bungs for compression fittings, fuel pressure regulator.)
*- Additional Injectors
*- AIC controller
*- Nitrous kit (wet shot using the additional injectors)
- Ignition Box
- Equal-length halfshafts.
*- FC Oil Cooler
*- FC Turbo II Seats
- Gauges (Fuel Pressure, Oil pressure, Oil temp, Water temp, Water pressure, Exhaust temp, Air/fuel Ratio)
- Cold-air box
- Adjustable shocks (rear only) to get rid of the ass-hop
- Nice-sounding Straight-pipe exhaust
*- Sparco Suede "D" wheel
- Late model A20 two-piece Intake manifold (or custom manifold if additional injectors cannot be fitted to stock manifold)
- Finish sound-deadening removal and coat interior with Lizard Skin.
- Set of good wheels/tires for track-use.
- Upgraded pads.
- Stainless brake lines.
- Homemade lower-body Aero (air dam, underbody tray(s), diffuser)
- Homemade under-hood Aero (reverse cowl vent for radiator, brake ducts)
- Headlight conversion of some sort
- Bushings
- Wheel bearings
- Wheel studs
- Motor mounts
- Nars-Super-special racing stripes

Phase III
- Garret 28 series Turbo (that's why I'm not planning for a high compression head job)
- Wideband
- Cage
- Harness
- Additional set of good wheels/tires for street-use.
- Rear disc conversion
- Upgraded rotors
- Adjustable brake proportioning valve
- Coil overs
- Downforce Aero (Canards, Wing)
- Plexi windows
__________________

[scars_of_carma]

After I made this list^ ...I did a lot of searching on 3G which answered a lot of my questions.

A series vs. B series.

B20 (16V DOHC)

The only engine from other vehicles that will bolt (almost) directly in is the B20 from the JDM/EDM Accords. No Prelude or other B20 motor will fit, as these motors lean the opposite directions and you must use different mounts.

Shit... I didn't realize the A20's forward lean was different then other honda motors until now. Leaning the engine back towards the firewall, like the B-series does, should lend towards better center of gravity and polar moment... oh well.

A20 (12V SOHC)

Serious build guide:

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost....2&postcount=29

Head Swaps

There is only two heads that bolt directly onto the A20 Block.These include the A18 and the A20 heads. The The A18 Head will bump up your compression a bit, but the problem with the A18 head is the port spacing is pretty weird. What you would gain in compression you would probably lose in Volumetric efficiency.

Valve Train

A20 valve springs are good to the stock red line, but not much after that. A18 Dual valve springs and retainers (84-87 Prelude, Dual Carbs) are good to about 7200 RPM.

Cams

When comparing cams, the numbers tell the story. These include lift, duration, overlap, lobe separation and timing. The duration specs reveal the cam's potential for making power within a certain rpm range. Generally speaking, the longer the duration, the higher the rpm range where the cam delivers its power.

Short Duration High Lift is better for low rpms
Long Duration Low Lift is better for High rpms
Long Duration is better for N/A
Short Duration is better for Turbo ( Specifically ask for a turbo regrind if going turbo )
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/camshafts.html

The tri flow, by delaying the opening of one intake valve creates turbulence, aka swirl. It will slow the flow but would give a better air/fuel mix for more efficent combustion, so you loose some, gain some.

opening the valves differently like the triflow is good for low and mid range power but not peak hp... but my gripe is that there is too much duration and overlap for these to be used for a turbo car... but im not sure of the specs. Id say that a 242 degree cam with 400 lift would be a nice turbo cam... i was thinking about trying it myself.

i always thought/heard the tri-flow from colt was the way to go, with the cam opening one intake valve first it pulls the air fuel mixture across the other valve then opening that one, with the pulling of the air its creates a swirl (like mentioned above) and the swirl then creates a better air/fel mixture

^ still undecided.

ARP head studs vs. Honda head bolts.

Even if the stock honda head bolts are sufficient the reason I want to use studs instead of torque-to-yield bolts is so I don't have to buy new ones whenever I remove the head.

Intake Manifolds

Intake manifolds for the B16/B18 work pretty well, the ports line up well and all you really need to do is drill a couple of extra holes for this to work. Heres the thread on that:
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49453

Intake Piping

I don't think anyone will really argue that replacing the stock intake system with new piping and a high flow filter will inhance power. But which is better, a short ram, which is pretty easy to do? Or a true cold air intake, which involves more work?

In the October/November issue of Honda/Tuning they tested 7 intake systems on a new 2002 RSX Type-S. The stock filter flowed 237cfm, the K&N flowed 244cfm.

AEM SR 163.1hp (+5.4) intake temp 111
AEM CAI 178.4hp (+20.7) intake temp 96.5

CAI’s that fit our cars.
90-93 Integra
90-97 Accord
92-95 Civic

NOS

I can guarantee burnt rings in your near future that way

Hmm that should only happen running really lean... I will be running additional injectors w/nos so that should prevent the burnt rings issue?

OBD-1

guide on how to do this:
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...finitive+guide

Brakes

The SE-i, which was only available in 89, and only in Coupe or Sedan, had rear disc

Steering

converting a power steering rack to a manual:
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...+steering+rack