Innovate Wideband thread

[Oldblueaccord]

I bought this a while back and wanted to start a thread share files etc. I bought the LC-1 and SSI-4. I currently only have the LC-1 hooked up. I havent even cracked the book on the SSI. I plan on using that for the RPM and TPS readings in the future.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/ssi_4.php

Install was somewhat a PIA. Welding a bung in underneath a car is not alotta fun but I got it in in about the 12 o clock position. Hindsight I should have done it more towards the 3 since it would have been way easier to weld in. The othere option is to pull the head pipe and do it on the bench. Problem getting the cat bolts free or in my case they been welded.

Wiring is pretty easy. It is very very important how its grounded or the guage will be way off. I started off with a cig lighter plug to power it but the ground off set was to much so I ended up running another ground right to the battery. The O2 sensor needs to be powered when the car is running so I think I might make this into a switch. I want to use this in a few vehicles help tune my Holley carb in my Plymouth also.

Car setup is like this:

Stock motor 280K+ miles

RC 250cc injectors about 3 months old
FPR vacuum line plugged
EGR plugged
Running 80% 87 octane/20% E-85 rought mixture
29 mpg mixed driving.
205/50-15 tires AL rims
5 speed

Lemme see how I can attach a few files.

[Oldblueaccord]

The Logworks software is freeware you can DL here.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

[cygnus x-1]

Innovate makes some of the coolest stuff. I have an LC-1, LMA-3, and an SSI-4. Never even powered on the SSI-4 though. The LMA-3 is the one with accelerometers to measure g-force, much like the G-tech. I was using it when I still had the Weber, but removed it when I switched over to the Megasquirt.

The LC-1 is indeed very sensitive to ground noise. I've been lucky and not had any noise issues although I did have to replace the sensor once after driving in some pretty hard rain. The sensors DO NOT handle moisture very well at all so you definitely need to follow the instructions for mounting and such. Fortunately NAPA had on in stock (it's a stock replacement for newer VW bugs).

A WBO2 is such a great tool for tuning fuel. I can't imagine doing it without one.

C|

[Oldblueaccord]

Whats the best way to post my logs? I just got a couple of the WB only.

So far this is what I have come up with in no particular order:

I am lean (app. 15.5) at cold idle and cruise until the car is 50% warmed up.

I am right at 14.7 idling and cruise with the car fully warmed up.

Suprisingly the car can run very rich 10.1 or so on full throttle high rpm's shifting 1,2,3.

Bogging the car say like 30 mpg in 3rd also the car runs rich 12.0 or so but shift to the "correct" gear brings the car back to 14.7 +/- .2

Leaving the car in gear while coming to a stop the AF goes off the scale lean 22.0 + but pulling the car out of gear brings me back to the 14.7 again.



wp

[89T]

I was woundering if the afr would be affected by mixing the 2 fuels and i found this.

Originally Posted by Innovative Motorsports
Tuning Tip: Ethanol Content

We've had a few reports where users could not “nail down” their tune on the street with the LM-1. The AFR's would jump about 0.5 AFR across the WOT band even in the same weather conditions in the space of a few days. Instead of holding a tune, the engine seemed to slowly “yodel.”

Naturally the first thing to blame was the LM-1. But it turned out that the users filled up at different gas stations, sometimes filling up on gas that had 10% ethanol mixed in. As expected, when Schnapps is mixed with cars, things get a little complicated.

If ethanol (stoich AFR of 9) is mixed with gasoline (stoich AFR of 14.7) the resulting gas has a lower stoich AFR than 'pure' gasoline. As the fuel injection is tuned to mix a certain amount of fuel for a given amount of air, the resulting mixture would be leaner when using a fuel with lower stoich AFR.

This can be calculated:

sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100

where:
sAFR is resulting stoich AFR
%ofAdditive is amount in % of mass of additive (ethanol) mixed in
sAFRadditive is stoich AFR of additive (9 for ethanol)
sAFRgas is stoich AFR of base gasoline (14.7)

For a 10% mixture of ethanol to gasoline by mass the resulting stoich AFR is 14.13

So, for an engine that's tuned to certain AFR at a certain load and RPM on straight gas, the resulting (gasoline equivalent) AFR when running the mixture can be calculated as:

new AFR = tuned gas AFR * (gasoline stoich ratio) / blend stoich ratio

An engine tuned to 12.5 gas AFR will run at the equivalent of 13 gas AFR with a 10% ethanol blend. This is what these people were seeing.

Of course, when running in closed loop, the engine will run at 14.13 AFR instead of 14.7. O2 sensors (incl. widebands) don’t measure AFR, but Lambda. Lambda is defined as actual AFR/stoich AFR. It's a ratio. In closed loop part throttle the engine is just running at Lambda 1.0, regardless of fuel. The same would be true for other Lambda values when running closed loop at WOT using a wideband. The engine would run at the tuned Lambda and everything would be fine. Open loop systems would need to be retuned for alcohol blends though.

Until next time... Keep On Tuning!

-Innovate Motorsports

happy tuning.

[89T]

They goofed on the math..

sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100

Should be

sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (100-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100


Also this is a simpler way..
Take E85 for example..

sAFR = .85 x 9 + .15 x 14.7
sAFR = 9.855

And for calculating from a known 12.5 FAR to what you would need to run with a blend...
Again E85 as an example..

FAR= (12.5/14.7 ) x 9.855
FAR= 8.380

[cygnus x-1]

Except for the 10:1 at WOT it sounds like your tuning is reasonable. If this was a Weber I would say you need to adjust the air corrector jets.

For posting logs, I have my own web space where I put everything. Then I just post links to whatever. You need to find a place to host the files unless this board allows attachments (??).


C|

Whats the best way to post my logs? I just got a couple of the WB only.

So far this is what I have come up with in no particular order:

I am lean (app. 15.5) at cold idle and cruise until the car is 50% warmed up.

I am right at 14.7 idling and cruise with the car fully warmed up.

Suprisingly the car can run very rich 10.1 or so on full throttle high rpm's shifting 1,2,3.

Bogging the car say like 30 mpg in 3rd also the car runs rich 12.0 or so but shift to the "correct" gear brings the car back to 14.7 +/- .2

Leaving the car in gear while coming to a stop the AF goes off the scale lean 22.0 + but pulling the car out of gear brings me back to the 14.7 again.



wp

[Oldblueaccord]

http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?...pid=411119&ck=


Yeah try this is got 3 logs up there and we will see where we go from there.


I was to very surprised how rich it would run in a more or less stock form. I am going to run a tank of straight gas thru here when I get my T-stat fully fixed and see if the ethenol is doing it or what is going on. Maybe the stock o2 sensors are not like the out of spec numbers, I dunno.


wp

[Nafs Asdf]

Leaving the car in gear while coming to a stop the AF goes off the scale lean 22.0 + but pulling the car out of gear brings me back to the 14.7 again.
wp

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to do that. It'll cut off the fuel completely when engine breaking so of course you'll be lean off the scale, it's pushing pure air.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://hosted.filefront.com/Oldblueaccord

see if this will work

EDIT disreguard useless web site


Yeah I am a donwshift person not a clutch in coast. Maybe thats why I get better mileage then most I dunno.

wp

[Oldblueaccord]

Well wanted to update this. Did a really bad thing. On the bung install I tacked it on then put the plug in to keep the weld spatter out. After the welding ,which I made way harder then it should by welding the bung at the 12o clock postion instead of the 10 or so where i could weld around it very easy, the plug was stuck. Giant pipe wrench later its a mess etc. I just got a cheap O2 tap and see if I can clean it up some. Bought some new plugs and bungs so I can get rid of the 3 inch lenght bolt I got in the bung plugging it off. It was all that was available in Knoxville at the time. The o2 sensor doesnt not look too good either and thats gonna cost me as well. Otherwise I am going to make some cold weather readings here someday.


EDIT: also need to find a suitable way to host files sorry about those bad links

wp

[AccordEpicenter]

i am an LC-1 user now

[thegreatdane]

lol I bought an LC-1 instead of my old LM-1 I accidentally blew up. The LM-1 was way overkill for me.

Oldblue I doubt you'll need a new O2 sensor unless the threads are reeally messed up. I've succesfully installed several dodgy looking sensors with success in the past lol.