Can anyone tell me the sizes of the chicleurs ( i bet that i wrote that right :P) for the 1981 (1751 cc) NON CVCC Accord, there are 6, 2 under fuel line and 4 for air, i just have the ones for the 1.6. and i was working all day today to fix the carb for a customer but it still needs a leaner mix after cleaning and everything
Thanks in advance!
So many reasons why
I won't be sending postcards
From Paraguay
??Originally Posted by 1GCustomAccord
Sorry,don't know what you are after there. Tubes?
But since there was no 1751cc Non-CVCC (from Honda anyway) I presume you mean 1602cc?
Yes as he said, you must mean the el and not the ek because the ek is cvcc.Is it an ek with el head?
Ops! Yes, in paraguay we had the EL 1751 engine NON CVCC. It uses a 2 barrel carb for the 1981 year model, but its slightly different than the 1600 model carb.
Geez.. i need to fix that thing
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Sorry, i mean jet size, i used the french word that we use here for jet (gicleur)
And YES, it´s a 1751 EL engine non CVCC! Surprised?
Last edited by 1GCustomAccord; 12-05-2009 at 05:36 AM.
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subscribed, to find out w.t.h. "Gicleur, chicleurs" are.....
Last edited by 89T; 12-05-2009 at 09:33 AM.
un-motivated!
someone make me an offer i just could not say no to.
3GR
wow i would like to see the stamping and pictures of that engine.What car is it from?( what trim)
Gicleur or chicleur (a french word)= JET (main jet, pilot air jet, etc..)
That is the 1751 engine non CVCCwow i would like to see the stamping and pictures of that engine.What car is it from?( what trim)
This is the carb for the 1751 engine
This is the carb for the 1600 engine (the round bronze colo things are the famous gicleurs or in english JET! Sorry for que idiomatic confusion.
This is the motor number
This is the car (you can see my Accord in the background, and please, dont laugh at the plates
Needs some love (in other thread i will highlight a weird accesory in this car, guess which one and win a prize!
Last edited by 1GCustomAccord; 12-05-2009 at 10:38 AM.
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From Paraguay
Thats interesting. I never heard of 1.8 EL before either.
No reason a 1751cc EL couldn't be made with EK crank, rods & pistons since the blocks seem to be exactly the same.. unlike the '77-78 EG 1600cc NON-CVCC.
I just hadn't thought Honda had done so, giving it a shorter stroke for 1602cc. Probably no way confirm capacity without measuring the stroke.
If it helps my EL engined 1st gen Prelude Partsbook suggests there were some changes part way through '81 for non-English market cars:
(Item 29) Primary {smaller venturi bore diameter}
Air jet #70 (99105-663-0700) 5speed 79-80
Air jet #75 (99105-663-0750) Hmatic 79-80
Air jet #90 (99105-663-0900) Hmatic & early 81 5 speed
Air jet #95 (99105-663-0950) Hmatic 79-81 E (Englishmarket)
Air jet #100 (99105-663-1000) Hmatic & late 81 5-speed
(item 31) Primary
Slow Air jet #160 (99105-663-1600) Hmatic & early 81 5 speed
Slow Air jet #170 (99105-663-1700) Hmatic & late 81 5 speed
(item 30) Secondary
Air jet #120 (99105-663-1200) 5speed & Hmatic 79-81
(item 32) Secondary
Slow Air jet #90 (99105-663-0900) 5speed & Hmatic 79-81
___
(item 33)
Main Jet Set #105 (99105-663-1050) Hmatic 79-80
Main Jet Set #108 (99105-663-1080) 5speed 79-80
Main Jet Set #115 (99105-663-1150) 81
___
(item 34)
Main Jet Set #155 (99105-663-1550) 79-80
Main Jet Set #170 (99105-663-1700) 81
Not sure how the two different Main Jet Sets work togeather since exploded diagram is ambiguous about where they fit (the "under fuel line" pair?), & it will take a while to get an image of that up.
Don't know how the numbers relate to physical jet sizes either.
Hope that make sense.
Last edited by 79cord; 12-05-2009 at 04:01 PM.
That perfectly makes sense, thanks to your help i was able to make the car run fine, THANKS!!!!
I used a 110 main jet (under fuel) in the first throat, when it has to be 115 because i have only 105, 108, 155 and 170 spare jets, so the engine is running in a slightly lean mix.
In the second throat i used the 170 one and it works just fine.
Tha machine is now on the road again.
So many reasons why
I won't be sending postcards
From Paraguay
Hey John, remember that Canadian car we found in the junkyard with the factory EK and chromed valve cover?
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
that motor is a 1.6 EL, it would not be a 1751 unless all the guts were swapped over.
The EL and EK blocks are identical. The extra CC's for the 1751 comes from Honda stroking the motor. A different crank, rods and pistons are used in the EK which all used CVCC heads from the factory. The EL's all used the non CVCC heads.
Most markets got the EL.... it was Japan and the USA that seemed to like the EK variants.
PS - Canada only got EL motors in the Preludes and Accords...No EK's here.
- Kurt
www.roadsailing.com
Then that must be custom right?
Hello kurt(1stgencivic)
Well, forget all the rest of the universe,here in Paraguay we got 1751 cc engines without the CVCC system, due to VERY flexible emissions laws (and not wanting to pay the extra cost of the CVCC system).
We ordered from Japan the engines in the maximum possible size but without the costly CVCC system, call it an "special ordered" 1800 cc EL and EK (from 1981 they came with EK denomination here, dont ask me why but i have seen both engines, and they look the same, with the longer displacement crankshaft) engined 1980/81 Honda Accord.
So many reasons why
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From Paraguay
Re: Gicleur size!!
NiceWell, forget all the rest of the universe,
We ordered from Japan the engines in the maximum possible size but without the costly CVCC system, call it an "special ordered" 1800 cc EL and EK (from 1981 they came with EK denomination here, dont ask me why but i have seen both engines, and they look the same, with the longer displacement crankshaft) engined 1980/81 Honda Accord.I suspect all the 1751's were marked as EK's and the smaller 1600 (1598/1602's) as the EL. On a sidenote, I have always heard the JDM Ek's were rated at more HP but I have never been able to confirm.....maybe their EK's had the EL heads too
- Kurt
www.roadsailing.com
1598cc would have been the '76-'78 EF(CVCC) or EG(Non-CVCC) Accord engine, not later EL? Almost interchangeable but different Bore AND Stroke, cast alloy cam cover instead of pressed steel and many other differences... stroked from the Civics 1500 engine.
& JIS power ratings differ from SAE possibly making up power difference. I think Japan only had CVCC for emissions reasons, but for '81(?) also re-introduced a 1602 CVCC engine according to Hondas website (not sure of the code).
ya, I couldn't recall the exact displacement of the EL
- Kurt
www.roadsailing.com
I think the eg is the one that has similar configuration to the eds in terms of heads swaping.
The original manual of my car (1979 Accord sedan) reads:
Type: Water cooled, 4 strokes OHC, parallel, 4 cylinders.
Bore x Stroke: 77x86 mm
Displacement: 1602 cm3*
C/R Rating: 8,4:1
Spark plug: BP5ES (NGK)
W16EX-U (ND)
* In some countryes the 1598 cm3 engine is available.
Acording to the Honda dealer, the only difference here between the 1602 and the 1751 engines are the longer stroke and the dished pistons of the last, but i dont know the difference in the 1598 cm3 engine, i suppose that is dished pistons in the 1602 engines in some countryes to use low octane fuel.
Last edited by 1GCustomAccord; 12-09-2009 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Added information.
So many reasons why
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From Paraguay
when I built my motor, I tossed the idea of using EL flat pistons with the EK rods to boost the compression...but I found out Honda had to used dished pistons to gain the needed clearance with the valves....As it is, I aready had to buy new valves when the timing belt gave out on me.
- Kurt
www.roadsailing.com
The fact is that they had to use dished pistons in the 1751 engine because of the very high compression caused by the longer stroke, no less no more. The valve aperture is exactly the same as the 1602 engine, according to Honda, they are both (1602 and 1751) interference engines, but i broke my timing belt some time ago while driving fast and no bent valves resulted from this.
I think there are at least 2 reasons why you CAN bend a valve in one of those "supposed" interference engines we are talking about:
1-Excessive carbon buildup in pistons and valves can cause them to contact during a broken belt situation.
2- Milled head lowers the distance between valves and pistons, a very thin head gasket can also cause this effect.
Here is a list of Honda interference engines:
http://www.rebuiltautoengines.com/ho...-articles.html
Honda gave just enough clearance between the valves and the pistons that, assuming there is not a lot of buildup on valves and pistons, or a milled head, they won't hit.
I am assuming that they said those are interference engines, because Honda (like other big manufacturers), is afraid of lawsuits, if someone was running an ill-maintained, engine that Honda claimed was noninterference, broke the timing belt and bent the valves, a lawyer will knock on Honda's door. They cover their asses by claiming the engine is interference. This way you can be happy if you break a timing belt and not bend any valves, and you won't sue if you do bend a few (thing that can also happen).
Anyways, i always change my timing belt at 50.000 km, to avoid any surprise.
PS: By the way, how much HP do you have in that motor? I am building an EL engine from an 1984 Honda Quintet, to install in my Accord adding electronic injection and i expect to achieve around 90 HP with custom mufflers flat pistons and head porting.
Last edited by 1GCustomAccord; 12-10-2009 at 07:51 AM.
So many reasons why
I won't be sending postcards
From Paraguay
Seriously, John has pictures on his flickr account. We found the car in Salmo, BC, it had metric dash, and a chrome covered EK, verified by engine number on rad support.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
Fuckin' A, I do remember that. Metric dash, and EK1 motor. Totally weird.
Here she is too. It was an LX model with AirCon.
Perhaps that was to allow for dealers than may still have had old stocks due to shipping time or cars assembled outside of Japan from CKD ( Completely knocked Down "kits") like Malaysia to reduce import duties.
The EF/EG were
Bore x Stroke: 74x93 mm
Displacement: 1600 cm3
C/R Rating: 8.0:1 (CVCC), 8,4:1 (Non-CVCC)
Though so I was always confused about where 1598cc actually came from?
2nd gen, post '81 EL 1602 had slightly domed pistons to raise compression ratio to 8.8:1.
So were you staying 1602 or going 1751cc with the Quintet engine... the Last cars to get EL.
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