Hydrogen?

[firefighterwhite89]

You Can Make Homemade Water To Hydrogen/Oxygen Kit For A Slight Increase In Gas Mileage And HP, But, Has Anyone Ever Figured Out A Way To Use 3 Or 4 At A Time And Get An Increase Of At Least 10+ HP, Yet It Run Right?
I Sat Here And Thought About It, Searched It And Came Up With No Answer. Anyone Ever Heard Of Anyone Doing Something Like This?

[labeledsk8r]

as someone that is allways interested in alternative power sources i can tell you this

people have claimed them to slightly work BUT it TAKES power to make Hydrogen

in a perfect world ther would be a 100% conversion wich mostly means you would loose no power in the conversion but this isnt a perfect world and power is lost threw heat.

now if you had solar panels powering the hydrogen canister then that would be a diffrent story

[gp02a0083]

making hydrogen is easy through the electrolysis of water with a basic solution. However the catch there is that it requires a lot of energy and is unfavorable thermodynamically and chemically,hence why its a dead topic for alternative fuels

[LX-incredible]

Come on guys, we all know it's completely possible to run on water. All you need is one of these:

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum...ean_30_294.jpg

[cygnus x-1]

The theory on hydrogen injection is that it (allegedly) works by extending the lean burn capability of the engine. The gain in efficiency comes from reduction of pumping loses due to running leaner (google lean burn engines). So then obviously for hydrogen injection to work the engine needs to be tuned to run leaner than normal. Whether or not this gain in efficiency is greater than the loss created by the electrolysis used to create the H2 is dependent on the particular engine, and I think can only be determined empirically.

What you won't get though is more power at WOT. At WOT the optimal AFR is on the rich side so adding hydrogen will have no effect.

I actually built a hydrogen cell awhile back with the intent to try it out but never got that far. Maybe this summer if I get bored.

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[gp02a0083]

still regardless , it requires much more energy to hydrolyze water to make h2 gas evolve , like i said its thermodynamically unfavorable reaction. yes i agree that you can run on straight H2 but from my chemistry background, it would result in higher operating temperatures, so along with Air/fuel adjustments , fuel delivery, and coolant systems .it would be a major project. The efficiency would then be dependent on the H2 generator, then followed by the mechanics of the engine.
i disagree with the more power statement to a certain degree, the reaction stoichiometry would change a bit ( combustion typically utilizes hydrocarbons in addition of supplied energy aka spark and yields carbon monoxide, water, and some various oxides). Going back to air/fuel ratios , this would end up being a bit tricky to have the fuel system adjust for this on the fly ( not to say it could possibly be done by a properly mapped standalone system)

IMO methanol injection would be more worth wild, burns "cooler" and would help cause a cleaner burn. even then hp gains would be minimal and a methanol injection system would be better suited for a turbo system. That is unless you plan on swapping the engine over to run solely on alcohol

[cygnus x-1]

still regardless , it requires much more energy to hydrolyze water to make h2 gas evolve , like i said its thermodynamically unfavorable reaction. yes i agree that you can run on straight H2 but from my chemistry background, it would result in higher operating temperatures, so along with Air/fuel adjustments , fuel delivery, and coolant systems .it would be a major project. The efficiency would then be dependent on the H2 generator, then followed by the mechanics of the engine.

The intent with the HHO generators is not to generate enough hydrogen to actually use as a fuel replacement. That definitely would not work. The combustion characteristics of hydrogen are very different from gasoline and would require serious modification to the engine. The hydrogen is used as a fuel modifier to allow the spark plugs to ignite a leaner mixture than they would normally be able to. Running with leaner mixtures makes the engine more efficient due to reduction of pumping loses. Diesels take this concept even further and run completely unthrottled. This is one of the reasons why diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines.

i disagree with the more power statement to a certain degree, the reaction stoichiometry would change a bit ( combustion typically utilizes hydrocarbons in addition of supplied energy aka spark and yields carbon monoxide, water, and some various oxides). Going back to air/fuel ratios , this would end up being a bit tricky to have the fuel system adjust for this on the fly ( not to say it could possibly be done by a properly mapped standalone system)

If enough hydrogen were added to actually contribute a significant amount of energy, you might get more power. But then it might just detonate because hydrogen is more ignitable than gasoline. IDK.

IMO methanol injection would be more worth wild, burns "cooler" and would help cause a cleaner burn. even then hp gains would be minimal and a methanol injection system would be better suited for a turbo system. That is unless you plan on swapping the engine over to run solely on alcohol

Alcohol would indeed burn cooler and cleaner. In fact that's why many states now mandate that all pump gas contains some percentage of ethanol. The problem with ethanol is that it actually reduces power because it has a lower energy content than gasoline. To really take advantage of it you need to increase the compression ratio or add some boost. It really shines under boost due to the high octane rating.


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[firefighterwhite89]

You Can Make Homemade Water To Hydrogen/Oxygen Kit For A Slight Increase In Gas Mileage And HP, But, Has Anyone Ever Figured Out A Way To Use 3 Or 4 At A Time And Get An Increase Of At Least 10+ HP, Yet It Run Right?
I Sat Here And Thought About It, Searched It And Came Up With No Answer. Anyone Ever Heard Of Anyone Doing Something Like This?

I Really Meant, Still Run Off Normal Pump Gas, Plus The Addition Of Hydrogen, To More/Less Increase The Ignitability Of The Gas...Sorta. I Always Kinda Figured, If There Was A Way To, Where The EGR Valve And Piping Runs In The F.I. Manifold, Would Be A Perfect Place To Hook Hydrogen To, If You Could Just Make The EGR To Where It'd Open/Close On A Switch, Because, Where My EGR Tubing Runs, It Seems To Connect Between The Head And The Injectors On The Intake, About An Inch Or So Away From The Head. IDK Though. I Was Just Kinda Sitting Here Looking At A Manual, And Thinking And Came Up With This Idea...

[wh1skea]

If not hydrogen, then has anyone tried water injection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

[cygnus x-1]

If not hydrogen, then has anyone tried water injection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

Would only make sense for a really high compression or boosted engine. Totally different than what hydrogen injection is intended to do.


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[w261w261]

If not hydrogen, then has anyone tried water injection?

How about 1961?

http://www.442.com/articles/jetfire.html

[gp02a0083]

not this again.. ugh

[lostforawhile]

How about 1961?

http://www.442.com/articles/jetfire.html

water/methanol injection has been used on turbo charged/supercharged engines for decades, it prevents detonation and adds some power and allows higer boost levels. but it's worthless on NA engines. It was originally designed for WW2 fighter planes. you can buy complete systems for boosted setups for around 800 bucks. good investment on a boosted setup. oh and water/methanol fluid= windshield washer fluid. thats what those systems run.

[firefighterwhite89]

Though, The Point To Reduce Engine Knock Further, Cylinder Temperatures And Boost Octane Rating...Wouldn't It Helps More Than Previously Claimed In The Thread When Thought In Such A Logical Sense? Especially When You Tend To Give It Hell?

[firefighterwhite89]

In a piston engine, the initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture significantly, which increases its density and hence the amount of mixture that enters the cylinder. An additional effect comes later during combustion when the water absorbs large amounts of heat as it vaporizes, reducing peak temperature and resultant NOx formation, and reducing the amount of heat energy absorbed into the cylinder walls. This also converts part of combustion energy from the form of heat to the form of pressure. As the water droplets vaporize by absorbing heat, it turns to high pressure steam (water vapor or steam mainly resulted from combustion chemical reaction), that would add engine output. The alcohol in the mixture burns, but is also much more resistant to detonation than gasoline. The net result is a higher octane charge that will support very high compression ratios or significant forced induction pressures before onset of detonation.

Fuel economy can be improved with water injection, although the effect on most engines with no other modification, like leaning out the mixture, appears to be rather limited or even negligible in some cases.

Some degree of control over the water injection is important. It needs to be injected only when the engine is heavily loaded and the throttle is wide open. Otherwise injecting water may simply drown the engine and cause it to quit.

Direct injection of water is possible. In a piston engine, this can be done late in the power stroke or during the exhaust stroke.