Importordomestic: Brake project!

[cygnus x-1]

The stock brake pedal will be removed and a Wilwood pedal installed. the Wilwood pedal gives a leverage action of 7-1. This is how the mechanical force is overcome and brake booster not needed.

Here is a link to the pedal I picked out for this build: 2nd one from the top of the page. http://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalList.aspx If you read the PDF document attached It explains in great detail all about the pedal/dual master cylinder setup.

Neat stuff. I wonder how that 7:1 compares to a stock pedal? A stock pedal could be modified to increase the mechanical advantage but then the travel needed would increase. Not that that would be a bad thing. More travel would allow for better modulation. Hmm, may have to ponder on this a bit.

The bracket is made out of aluminum same as the caliper. I believe it to be 4340. I would have to ask Brian at fastbrakes to confirm this tho.

4340 is actually steel, but yeah that looks like aluminum. It's probably 6061 or one of the 7000 grades. At first I was thinking that aluminum wouldn't be good for brake parts because of the high heat, but then I realized the rotor hats are aluminum, so it must be ok.

oh and the lace is competely wrong. I thought i knew what I was doing the first time ariound and after some research:

A your not suposed to use a single wire to lace them together.
B always lace from the outer most part of the rotor to the inner most part.
C you are supposed to wire the bolts in pairs and in a figure 8. the figure 8 makes 100% sure the bolts work against each other from loosening. and they are in pairs because if you break on wire you potentially will only have 2 bolts back out.

I've never used safety wire for anything but that all makes sense. I have a friend that used to race motorcycles though and I remember he used wire in some places.

Are you on Rx7 club by any chance? I see a guy on the megasquirt forums named Sir Cygnus.

Nope, not me. I know there is a guy that goes by Cygnus on Hybridz too. Not sure what I'll do if I ever get an RX7 or a Z and want to join one of those forums. I would have to come up with a different handle I guess.


C|

[Importordomestic]

Ah ok, so It isnt you that is on Rx7 club. OH well thought I found an Aquaintance over there

Yeah the calipers are solid aluminum as wel. It doesnt sound that great of a material at first But the R&D guys over at Wilwood know whats goign on.

[2drSE-i]

Ah ok, so It isnt you that is on Rx7 club. OH well thought I found an Aquaintance over there

Yeah the calipers are solid aluminum as wel. It doesnt sound that great of a material at first But the R&D guys over at Wilwood know whats goign on.

Its all about the quality of aluminum. And how much weight you will save by running lighter calipers.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Very cool project... I have been wondering myself if the willwood kit in that size would fit under a 15" wheel as I don't want to have to change my wheels when I do a brake upgrade.

I will be following this closely. Good luck with the rest of the project.

[87roach]

Wow! Someone finally bought them.. and they look killer.

Looking forward to more progress from you!

[Importordomestic]

Very cool project... I have been wondering myself if the willwood kit in that size would fit under a 15" wheel as I don't want to have to change my wheels when I do a brake upgrade.

I will be following this closely. Good luck with the rest of the project.

Wow! Someone finally bought them.. and they look killer.

Looking forward to more progress from you!

I want to clear any confusion before it happens this isnt a "Kit" with a stocked part number from Wilwood. Brian and I pieced together these components to fit my specific application. Brian may actually put this as a option for the 88-89 accords. But this would be something that you can only order through him not from a run of the mill authorized dealer.

Secondly they wont fit under all 15 rims. I have 2 sets of 15' rims one set will not go on over the caliper. However my Rota Rb rims clear with mm's to spare. these will fit a rim that has a 14'' inside diameter in the barrel of the rim. specifically you have to have this diameter taken at the backplate of where the rim meets the rotor. some 15 rims will have the barrel taper as it meets the center section.

my rim specific dimensions are 15x8 -35with a totaled 14'' rim diameter.

I have lots more progress coming soon!

And thanks for all the comments guys.

[guaynabo89]

Hey where are the pics? I want to see the brake goodies.

[Importordomestic]

Hey where are the pics? I want to see the brake goodies.

the pic's are still showing up for me. If you still cant see them PM me with email addy I will send you all my projects.

[LX-incredible]

Nice stuff! Looking forward to the completed setup!

[Legend_master]

Very Nice, I was waiting for someone to go all out on brakes. Can wait to see some results from this thread, and how well your track times improve! If you could find a way to move the caliper out about 2mm in the rear the 11" option would be readily available with off the shelf parts (plus whatever you use to space the caliper out). Good luck!

[Importordomestic]

Very Nice, I was waiting for someone to go all out on brakes. Can wait to see some results from this thread, and how well your track times improve! If you could find a way to move the caliper out about 2mm in the rear the 11" option would be readily available with off the shelf parts (plus whatever you use to space the caliper out). Good luck!

Just the guy I needed to chime in! Lets talk about that 11'' rear option some more.

are you talking about your find of using the civic powerstop rotors and legend rear calipers? Ive read that through a couple of times and didnt realize that it still needed a 2mm spacer to complete that.

Or are you talking about a different setup entirely?

Sorry for the slow progress guy's I have alot on my plate at the moment. I work a regular 40hr week as a network engineer and I run a auto shop on the side. (The idea is to transition to the shop only) there are times that I get swamped with customer cars, and this is one of them.

I have yet to pick up these items on my list.

ARP wheel studs
8mm wheel spacers
Wilwood brake pedal
Dual master cylinders (mostly due to the part of an indecision on the rear brakes.)

Its for the best I needed to recoup some funds anyway.

[Legend_master]

Just the guy I needed to chime in! Lets talk about that 11'' rear option some more.

are you talking about your find of using the civic powerstop rotors and legend rear calipers? Ive read that through a couple of times and didnt realize that it still needed a 2mm spacer to complete that.

Or are you talking about a different setup entirely?

Sorry for the slow progress guy's I have alot on my plate at the moment. I work a regular 40hr week as a network engineer and I run a auto shop on the side. (The idea is to transition to the shop only) there are times that I get swamped with customer cars, and this is one of them.

I have yet to pick up these items on my list.

ARP wheel studs
8mm wheel spacers
Wilwood brake pedal
Dual master cylinders (mostly due to the part of an indecision on the rear brakes.)

Its for the best I needed to recoup some funds anyway.

Actually when you read the thread I note that I have to shave the inside of the caliper bracket, and the outer edge of the rotor. I didn't like the results of this because that weakens the metal, and almost goes into the area where the sliders move in and out of. I also had to eliminate the use of the rattle bracket because they would not allow the rotor to move. This could all be easily fixed the a bracket the just spaces the caliper out (diameter wise) from the rotor. Everything else fits perfectly

[Importordomestic]

yeah I remember that part, didnt realize you were refering to spacing the caliper out in a further radius.

I am probably going to try out the brakes with the stock SEI rear disks. I did however upgrade to a set of Hawk pads in the rear. I have another 2 day open track day next month. I am definately in high anticipation for a more consistant car.

As for MAster cylinder's I believe that the front should be setup with 3/4, and the rear with a 13/16 as that is the stock size for the SEI.

[Legend_master]

yeah I remember that part, didnt realize you were refering to spacing the caliper out in a further radius.

I am probably going to try out the brakes with the stock SEI rear disks. I did however upgrade to a set of Hawk pads in the rear. I have another 2 day open track day next month. I am definately in high anticipation for a more consistant car.

As for MAster cylinder's I believe that the front should be setup with 3/4, and the rear with a 13/16 as that is the stock size for the SEI.

I was able to mate a legend caliper(larger piston) to the stock sei setup, so they be a viable option for you aswell.

[Importordomestic]

I was able to mate a legend caliper(larger piston) to the stock sei setup, so they be a viable option for you aswell.

I have a set of those calipers on hand, And i may try that. But it requires removal of materil from the mounting bracket itself for the piston to clear. And that is a cast piece of steel. Something deep inside me just doesnt think that is a good idea.

Any part of brake failure will mean total understeer / crash / you name what bad happens in crashes of that nature.

Spoke with Brian at Fastbrakes today, I have a quote for the rest of the brake parts. just need to pull the trigger.

[guaynabo89]

the pic's are still showing up for me. If you still cant see them PM me with email addy I will send you all my projects.

they're showing up now. Nice work

feel free to pm me whatever u want. im always up for shop talk.

as far as the rear, have you tried matching up oem rotors from some other manufacturer in the size/offset you need?

brembo has a site that lists all rotor sizes up to 2008.

http://www.brembo.com/ENG/catalogo_AM/2008/index.html


I used that to figure out a rotor for my RL for bbk I did for it.

[Legend_master]

I have a set of those calipers on hand, And i may try that. But it requires removal of materil from the mounting bracket itself for the piston to clear. And that is a cast piece of steel. Something deep inside me just doesnt think that is a good idea.

Any part of brake failure will mean total understeer / crash / you name what bad happens in crashes of that nature.

Spoke with Brian at Fastbrakes today, I have a quote for the rest of the brake parts. just need to pull the trigger.

I understand that. Its a minute amount of metal, but Ive never put my brakes to there limit as you would on a track. So what are you planning out for the rear with Brain?

[Importordomestic]

I understand that. Its a minute amount of metal, but Ive never put my brakes to there limit as you would on a track. So what are you planning out for the rear with Brain?

actually I am goign to leave the rear SEI brakes as they are. I have an open track weekend next month where I will be able to fully work the system. I am really interested to see what changing the front rotors alone has done to the car. I am a stickler for testing one part at a time.

I am working on a mastercylinder brace for the accord. This shiould get rid of firewall flex and help with brake modulation.

For right at the moment Brian and I discussed using an 11'' two piece rotor for the rear with a 2 pot caliper. It would be the exact same setup he makes for the civic's, just with a few different brackets and lines.

The biggest change we discussed was a complete re-vamp of brake hard line pluming.

Right now Brian quoted out the dual master cylinders, pedal assembly, remote balance bar and rear pressure valve. around $300 but thats not including fittings, hardline, hardware, etc to make it all work.

In the end a good race car Is all about balance. So simply I put my stock accord on the track and drove it. Each time I spend a trackday beating on the car, I find something that is completely lacking or could be better. Then I plan, budjet and move forward.

I have so many things that I want to do, its gets jumbled up in the priority list. Between what is necessary and what i would like to have now.

After the brakes are finished I will have a consistant car, and that alone will be a HUGE benefit.

Nick Brown
ASFmotors.....

[Legend_master]

actually I am goign to leave the rear SEI brakes as they are. I have an open track weekend next month where I will be able to fully work the system. I am really interested to see what changing the front rotors alone has done to the car. I am a stickler for testing one part at a time.

I am working on a mastercylinder brace for the accord. This shiould get rid of firewall flex and help with brake modulation.

For right at the moment Brian and I discussed using an 11'' two piece rotor for the rear with a 2 pot caliper. It would be the exact same setup he makes for the civic's, just with a few different brackets and lines.

The biggest change we discussed was a complete re-vamp of brake hard line pluming.

Right now Brian quoted out the dual master cylinders, pedal assembly, remote balance bar and rear pressure valve. around $300 but thats not including fittings, hardline, hardware, etc to make it all work.

In the end a good race car Is all about balance. So simply I put my stock accord on the track and drove it. Each time I spend a trackday beating on the car, I find something that is completely lacking or could be better. Then I plan, budjet and move forward.

I have so many things that I want to do, its gets jumbled up in the priority list. Between what is necessary and what i would like to have now.

After the brakes are finished I will have a consistant car, and that alone will be a HUGE benefit.

Nick Brown
ASFmotors.....

I don't know if Brian, or you have put any thought into it, but another option would be to use the stock 88-90 Legend sedan, or and 87-90 coupe rear caliper and bracket. They are significantly larger then the stock Se-i setup. If you read my thread about 11" rear brake upgrade my biggest problem is finding the right rotor size. I believe a re-drilled rear legend rotor would fix the whole problem, but I never got the time or money to test the theory. I tried to use rear 2003 Civic Si (10.3") rotors with no luck, they were actually to small. The 11" rear civic upgrade rotors were just slightly to big. It needs a rotor somewhere in the range between 10.3" and 11". Good luck with everything, your 3g is very impressive!

[Strugglebucket]

I may have missed it, but are you going to do any ducting?

[Importordomestic]

I don't know if Brian, or you have put any thought into it, but another option would be to use the stock 88-90 Legend sedan, or and 87-90 coupe rear caliper and bracket. They are significantly larger then the stock Se-i setup. If you read my thread about 11" rear brake upgrade my biggest problem is finding the right rotor size. I believe a re-drilled rear legend rotor would fix the whole problem, but I never got the time or money to test the theory. I tried to use rear 2003 Civic Si (10.3") rotors with no luck, they were actually to small. The 11" rear civic upgrade rotors were just slightly to big. It needs a rotor somewhere in the range between 10.3" and 11". Good luck with everything, your 3g is very impressive!

oh I will definately take that into consideration. But as a general rule for myself I am staying away from having re-drilled rotors. Going to a 2 piece rotor design allows me to order replacement rotor surfaces from any willwood vendor. Its not that I am against re drilling rotors just its an extra step which costs that extra step of money as well. You have done lots of research and time and without it, I would have had a harder path to follow.

Thank's

[Importordomestic]

I may have missed it, but are you going to do any ducting?

Yes i have put alot of thought into a duct design I haven't had the time to start building it yet but Very soon. I am goig nto use the 2 grills under the arccord bumper box it in and run 2 ducts per side one to the front of the caliper and one to the rear. This should easily cure my heatsoak problem.

Honestly I have been slammed with customer cars the last 2 weekends and havent had a bit of time to work on my race car.

[Importordomestic]

I need some help guy's. I need to source 4 packs of wheel stuuds from ARP. ARP has them on back order until the end of June. I need part number ARP #070-100-7711 they are .485 knurl 3'' long and 12x1.5 thread. IF i cant source 4 pakages I will have to go with BLOX studs and pay out the ass for it to.

[Legend_master]

I need some help guy's. I need to source 4 packs of wheel stuuds from ARP. ARP has them on back order until the end of June. I need part number ARP #070-100-7711 they are .485 knurl 3'' long and 12x1.5 thread. IF i cant source 4 pakages I will have to go with BLOX studs and pay out the ass for it to.

oh I will definately take that into consideration. But as a general rule for myself I am staying away from having re-drilled rotors. Going to a 2 piece rotor design allows me to order replacement rotor surfaces from any willwood vendor. Its not that I am against re drilling rotors just its an extra step which costs that extra step of money as well. You have done lots of research and time and without it, I would have had a harder path to follow.

Thank's

I agree, I just wonder if theres a rotor out there that we don't know about. I'm sure some car had to have the size rotor needed to make that setup work, but only research will figure that one out lol.


Quick search of google for ARP #070-100-77117711 brings up a couple online companies that carry those. You might call around and see if you can find one that actually carried them in there inventory. Check out that Honda tech thread as well (the second one), he may be able to get those for you.

[AccordEpicenter]

importordomestic, what was your previous brake setup? did you have aftermarket rotors or pads? What fluid were you using?