Battery Light, Dead Car

[ReaKtionary]

Notice: Search function yielded information on possible alternator issues or fuse problems. I'm here for verification I suppose.

Well hello there everybody, I'll properly introduce myself in the proper threads later, I've held an account for some time but this being my first actual post, I hope it's not misplaced; I'm in somewhat of an urgent(ish) need of assistance.

Okay, few days ago at the trailing end of my 35 mile commute to work, the battery light lit up, by the speedometer. It concerned me because the only of those idiot lights to ever illuminate for me have been either the Brake or Fuel indicator. Leaving work, at 5 of midnight, she started up fine and all seemed well-enough, sole exception being the battery light; though, the idle was rather high at around 3k, differing from the norm of between 800-1100 or so -- but then, it was a chilly night, this wasn't unusual in that scenario.

Next morning I stopped at Napa, the gentleman there clipped on his little gizmo and reported a "Dead Cell". I've had pretty good experiences with the company as a whole and one good experience with that branch, so I trusted his assessment or diagnosis and bought an $86 replacement battery (less a $10 core charge).

The battery light remained illuminated and I returned the next day after a successful trip to and from work, also still high idle. The same gentleman reported that he was unsure of the cause, but that the car had probably not yet realized it was in good repair; not his exact words, think Wayne's World for a visual representation of the fellow.

I accepted this only to do my own research, after work of course. Unfortunately on the way home tonight, the lights dimmed the gauges as well, and she sputtered and finally stalled.

Not enough juice to turn over, I endured a tow at 3 in the AM. The car's in the drive and I'm sorely disappointed with AAA's service.

Help?

Apologies for the storytelling, it's late and I'm exhausted.

Probably useful information:
1987 LX - "Bone Stock"
A20A1 mated to a 5 speed manual

Also, attempts to "pop start" the 3G were fruitless, rolling several dozen feet in gear and at speed with the ignition on (also tried off, then on) resulted in no ignition. I'm assuming there wasn't enough juice to spark (the 4 ways had also died in the 2 hours waiting for AAA to send a truck from a garage 15 minutes away...)

Thank you all.

----Resolution----

The alternator brushes were bad, apparently. I'm no electrician, so I got a new one from Napa for $90. Running great yet again. Pain in the left foot to get that old one out, though.

[ReaKtionary]

It now appears that I have misread the forum rules. I understood that the subcategory was for any technical problems pertaining to a model with a carburetor. It seems this is not the case. Sincere apologies, I hope I can still be assisted.

[ghettogeddy]

yes i would say its time for a new alt and if your planing on doing it put a day aside lol you have to remove the left axle pritty much to get it out

[Ayeobe]

Yeah, new altornator. I dont know what battry got you 35+ miles of drive time, but my 87's batt light lit up, and it was for a dead altornator. Thankfully i made it to a mechanic school i went to, and charged the batt to get home.

How many kms/miles does your car have? The altornators seem to die around 200+k km.. And its a pain to replace them heh.

[InAccordance]

if your mechanically inclined, chances are its the brushes in the alternator... i had a similar issue and even drove the car 2 weeks with the light on... got slowly worse and worse until it finally died. If something else goes bad inside the alt it will die right off... a slow dying generally indicates bad brushes.
so i got to screwing with it and took the alt apart, the brushes inside werent even making contact.
so i took my spare alt... which by the way was for an FI model and i have a carb... so wouldnt work without other modifications im not inclined to do, swapped the brushes out and presto... rebuilt alternator.
some time later the regulator went bad in it and instead of buying a new or rebuilt alt, just bought the reg and replaced that... helluva lot cheaper.
so far my twice rebuilt alt has lasted and gives me no troubles.
as for replacing... carb motors you can unbolt it and drop it loose, unblot the drivers side motor mount, get a long pipe or whatever and wedge the motor up a bit and slide the alt right out.

[lostforawhile]

if your mechanically inclined, chances are its the brushes in the alternator... i had a similar issue and even drove the car 2 weeks with the light on... got slowly worse and worse until it finally died. If something else goes bad inside the alt it will die right off... a slow dying generally indicates bad brushes.
so i got to screwing with it and took the alt apart, the brushes inside werent even making contact.
so i took my spare alt... which by the way was for an FI model and i have a carb... so wouldnt work without other modifications im not inclined to do, swapped the brushes out and presto... rebuilt alternator.
some time later the regulator went bad in it and instead of buying a new or rebuilt alt, just bought the reg and replaced that... helluva lot cheaper.
so far my twice rebuilt alt has lasted and gives me no troubles.
as for replacing... carb motors you can unbolt it and drop it loose, unblot the drivers side motor mount, get a long pipe or whatever and wedge the motor up a bit and slide the alt right out.

carb and FI alternators are the same, the voltage regulator is different, you can swap them back and forth and change from one to the other. FI has an additional terminal that allows the computer to control the alternator, all of that is built into the regulator. physically they are identical.

[InAccordance]

orly?
i could have swore the FI was slightly more amp output.... so guess i did all that for nothing, haha
at least i got to learn how to rebuild an alternator

[ReaKtionary]

Apologies for the delayed reply, I suppose I haven't found out how to receive notification of an update to the post..

Ayeobe - Yes it seems to have been a good 4 days with the light on before she finally just died. And, 281,000 +/- Miles on the odometer. I promised her a blueprint at least at 300k, but I guess she just couldn't wait.
edit: 291k miles on the odometer, 51k from me.

As for the alternator, there were no service records when I bought the car the original owner may have passed, so no luck obtaining any information there on any work that may have been done.


I suppose I'll have to tear her down.

But, one possibly unrelated question: as she lay there dead and motionless, I couldn't help but start poking around, jiggling wires, you know "roadside repair". I noticed in the under-hood fuse box several large fuses that hid underneath two separate plastic covers reading "Main Fuse". They were not blown but severely corroded, could this have an effect on the charging of the battery maybe? Also, where could I find fuses like that, they were unfamiliar to me. (They did not pull out, but had a small screw on either end.)

[ghettogeddy]

i would clean or replace those first before spending money on the alt

[ReaKtionary]

i would clean or replace those first before spending money on the alt

From the looks of them, they seem to need to be replaced, I suppose I'll walk on over to Napa and have a looksie. Any idea's whether or not they are proprietary? I'd post a picture but it seems I'm not allowed to yet.

[lostforawhile]

From the looks of them, they seem to need to be replaced, I suppose I'll walk on over to Napa and have a looksie. Any idea's whether or not they are proprietary? I'd post a picture but it seems I'm not allowed to yet.

I think after this post you can, if it's something technical, PM someone and we will get the picture up. The main reason for the post limit is to stop spammers, you are obviously having a technical issue, so glad to help if I can

[ReaKtionary]

Alright, Napa guys says that he hasn't seen them before, but he found them in the catalog and says he'll have them there by 8 o'clock tomorrow, giving me roughly six hours to pick them up and replace them, cross my fingers and hope that resolves the issue. I had a friend's jump cables hooked up to the battery (hopefully) just long enough to allow for a single start, if the issue has been resolved she should keep on running, if not, die again. Last night's experiment had the engine running beautifully while connected to a good car via cables, once I unplugged the cables, she died within seconds.

Picture of the fuse box under the hood, the five toward the bottom and one topmost all seem to be very corroded, the two pink 30A ones appear to be blown.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

P.S. - I do appreciate the purpose of the post limit, and also the assistance of such a fine community.

[ghettogeddy]

why is there a mini fuse in there lol
id swap that asap

[ReaKtionary]

why is there a mini fuse in there lol
id swap that asap

Doh! I see, I must've missed it, I'll be sure to swap that out tomorrow morning when I pick up the new block-type-looking fuses. All of the other, normal fuses appear just fine, though I haven't checked the under-dash fuse box as I would (probably wrongly) assume that has little to do with critical engine operation?

[lostforawhile]

Doh! I see, I must've missed it, I'll be sure to swap that out tomorrow morning when I pick up the new block-type-looking fuses. All of the other, normal fuses appear just fine, though I haven't checked the under-dash fuse box as I would (probably wrongly) assume that has little to do with critical engine operation?

that just looks like one of the plastic covers over the unused fuse slots NINJA EDIT didn't see the fuse util now

[Dr_Snooz]

What kind of voltage is the battery putting out at rest?

[ReaKtionary]

What kind of voltage is the battery putting out at rest?

It seems I have misplaced any multimeter I own. I can't seem to find my old analogue brick..

Right now it's hooked up to a trickle charger while I borrow a friend's vehicle to work, it displays only the amps put out by the charger, right now the needle is in an area that reads "Engine Assist".

I replaced those under-hood fuses this morning, and all under-dash fuses look fine after pulling each one. I did, however, notice that I have fixed the problem of my climate control not working as well as possibly the cruise control, just assuming there.

She started this morning, after replacing the fuses, on the remaining charge from last night's jump-test, but the light remained illuminated. The engine ran for a few minutes on a high idle, maybe the cold engine, maybe the battery issue. I turned on the headlights and they were very very dimly lit, as were the interior lights and Brake and Battery indicator (idiot) dash lights. So, I turned off the ignition and hooked up the charger in hopes that -- tomorrow before work -- I'll make it to the local Napa or, the 30+ miles to the Honda dealer.

[lostforawhile]

if the car started and the headlights are dim, obviously the alternator isn't charging, and it's probably killed the battery

[ReaKtionary]

Yes I figured as much when I noticed. Now all that's left is a quote I suppose. I'm somewhat "mechanically inclined" but I lack the tools or time at the moment.

[ReaKtionary]

Okay so the Napa multimeter read about 12 volts with the engine running, after I had charged the battery all night via the trickle-charger.

Quote for a new alternator was "around 90 bucks". His only available alternator tester was one of those bench things, so I'll have to physically take it out. Which leads me to the question, since I'll have to take it out anyway, to replace it, I'll need some dis assembly instructions or something of the sortl might anyone point me in the right direction?

And, since I'll have the damned thing out anyway, InAccordance mentioned bad brushes as a likely cause for a slow painful death, as opposed to a sudden death. Slowly dying being my particular case, I'm very interested in any likelihood of repairing my current alternator instead of giving them another "90 bucks".

[Dr_Snooz]

Download the shop manual here. Overhaul procedure starts on p. 24-25. It's not hard to pull them apart. Pretty much if you see a bolt, take it out. If you screw it up, just put it back together and use it as a core.

[lostforawhile]

Okay so the Napa multimeter read about 12 volts with the engine running, after I had charged the battery all night via the trickle-charger.

Quote for a new alternator was "around 90 bucks". His only available alternator tester was one of those bench things, so I'll have to physically take it out. Which leads me to the question, since I'll have to take it out anyway, to replace it, I'll need some dis assembly instructions or something of the sortl might anyone point me in the right direction?

And, since I'll have the damned thing out anyway, InAccordance mentioned bad brushes as a likely cause for a slow painful death, as opposed to a sudden death. Slowly dying being my particular case, I'm very interested in any likelihood of repairing my current alternator instead of giving them another "90 bucks".

the alternator regulator and brushes are accessed by just taking off the back cover on the alternator, you don't even have to take off the pulley

[ReaKtionary]

the alternator regulator and brushes are accessed by just taking off the back cover on the alternator, you don't even have to take off the pulley

That sounds fantastic, and thanks for the info on the manual Dr_Snooz.


P.S.: What a great community.