alignment help, mega toe (lude arms)

[knifemind]

I replaced tie rod ends, lower ball joints, upper joints with prelude upper arms, new rotors and pads, and this is what happened.

My tie rod ends are bottomed out on the left side and there are just a couple threads showing on the right side, so I can't come in any further.
Is it possible that the lude arms could be at fault somehow? Possible the rod ends are 'longer' than they should be? Any other ideas, because I need to get this sorted out before too long.

[Bglad420]

How were the tie rods compared to the old ones? Same size?? The lude arms wont affect your toe that way. Caster, and camber yes. toe no. Were they the inners you replaced??

Second why is your rear caster so jacked on one side? You need to have your rear sub frame shifted to fix that.

[AZmike]

Changing the length of the upper control arm and changing nothing else WILL change your toe. For example, if the top of the upright is moved in by shortening the upper control arm (more negative camber) the unchanged tie rod length will produce toe in since the Accord steering arms are on the rear side of the uprights. The tie rod would need to be shorted to maintain the toe setting for this example.

Your real problem is the asymmetry of the tie rod ends. Has the steering rack or steering column been worked on? Right now centering the steering wheel doesn't center your steering rack. Someone tried to make up for that by adjusting the tie rod ends. You need to get your steering wheel and steering rack in agreement.

To do this first remove your tie rod ends and put them on an equal number of turns. I think I end up with 16-18 turns. Then center the steering rack so you have equal toe on each side (the steering wheel will not be centered now). Then disconnect the lower steering column u-joint just above the steering rack under the dash, center the steering wheel, and reconnect it. You won't get it perfectly centered because of the splines on the shaft, but getting it within one spline is fine. Finally center the steering wheel (should have been off by just a few degrees) and adjust each tie rod to get desired toe setting (after setting camber and caster since they will change the toe).

Your rear CAMBER is off a bit. It's shouldn't really matter if your rear toe is close to zero, but you may want to check for damage on that side. Your could try to move the subframe toward to positive camber side to even things out, but last time I had a rear subframe off the holes were sized such that there's not much side to side movement possible.

[knifemind]

How were the tie rods compared to the old ones? Same size?? The lude arms wont affect your toe that way. Caster, and camber yes. toe no. Were they the inners you replaced??

Second why is your rear caster so jacked on one side? You need to have your rear sub frame shifted to fix that.

Just the outer ends.

Changing the length of the upper control arm and changing nothing else WILL change your toe. For example, if the top of the upright is moved in by shortening the upper control arm (more negative camber) the unchanged tie rod length will produce toe in since the Accord steering arms are on the rear side of the uprights. The tie rod would need to be shorted to maintain the toe setting for this example.

Your real problem is the asymmetry of the tie rod ends. Has the steering rack or steering column been worked on? Right now centering the steering wheel doesn't center your steering rack. Someone tried to make up for that by adjusting the tie rod ends. You need to get your steering wheel and steering rack in agreement.

To do this first remove your tie rod ends and put them on an equal number of turns. I think I end up with 16-18 turns. Then center the steering rack so you have equal toe on each side (the steering wheel will not be centered now). Then disconnect the lower steering column u-joint just above the steering rack under the dash, center the steering wheel, and reconnect it. You won't get it perfectly centered because of the splines on the shaft, but getting it within one spline is fine. Finally center the steering wheel (should have been off by just a few degrees) and adjust each tie rod to get desired toe setting (after setting camber and caster since they will change the toe).

Your rear CAMBER is off a bit. It's shouldn't really matter if your rear toe is close to zero, but you may want to check for damage on that side. Your could try to move the subframe toward to positive camber side to even things out, but last time I had a rear subframe off the holes were sized such that there's not much side to side movement possible.

Nither the rack of column have been worked on to my knowledge, but I didn't have this problem before.

I figured it would affect toe, because it's basically a radius...and moving the position of the rod end would have some increase or decrease in net horizontal distance.

Thanks for the input, when I get some time I'll get under it and check things out further.

[MessyHonda]

i feel your pain...i had to take my car in 2 time this week to get the caster set because they didnt do it right the first time

[knifemind]

Ok, just an update.. so I redid the front with new UCAs (replacement Accord arms), new UCA buskings, and new tie rod ends (again).

I am pleased to say that I should not be chewing through tires nearly as fast now.

[2oodoor]

So Accord UCA are desirable for 2nd gen prelude?

[A18A]

sooo... I'm keen to swap UCAs for prelude ones :P

[knifemind]

So Accord UCA are desirable for 2nd gen prelude?

Only Prelude arms will go into the Accord. Accord arms are too wide to fit into the Prelude.

sooo... I'm keen to swap UCAs for prelude ones :P

Go for it? Just make sure you know a good alignment guy...

I'll will probably try them again in the spring sometime.

[2oodoor]

Ok I was just trying to clarify you said you used Accord arms on your Prelude, that is confusing me because I knew visa versa was possible but not reversed!