What to build in a rebuilt engine

[w261w261]

In the next year or so, I think I'll put a new engine in the SE-i. I'm thinking of getting one out of a wreck and having it rebuilt to my specifications. I'm looking for some input on how to configure it.

First, the 3G spends most of it's time driving around town. This means mostly suburban roads, some parkways, and limited interstates. I'm not looking to move the torque curve too much towards the red line, and, although I would like to get some more hp than the current 120, a turbo is not on the table. I already have one of those (a VW 1.8) and although it has a nice meaty low and mid-range punch, I don't particularly like the way the engine feels, and sounds. I don't want the extra power that way.

So, it's normally aspirated for me, and I also don't want a lumpy idle, no-power-down-low-wait-for-the-cam-to-come-on type of motor. I realize you can't get something for nothing, but to me, extreme engineering makes no sense in a car like the 3G.

Seems that one thing I could do would be to build in a higher compression ratio. I don't mind paying for premium gas. Anyone have any estimate of what the hp increase might be for just that one adjustment? Since there's no knock sensor, I don't want to go too high, as I think that the pumps labeled "premium" sometimes aren't.

I would put in a more aggressive cam, but just a little. The problem for me is, I don't know what "just a little" translates to in terms of a specific grind.

I also don't know what's available out there for headers, or even whether what I am considering in terms of increasing the hp means that a new set of headers is even called for. I also don't want to get too noisy.

Lastly, since no one except the die-hards here is going to put any real money into a 3G, I wonder if there's a machine shop that can do a whole performance rebuild, that has a good rep, and has any meaningful amount of experience with this motor. I have a feeling that I'm about 15 years too late. I don't care where the shop is, although it would be nice if it were in the northeast somewhere, so I could visit.

I guess to summarize, if I could get an additional 20 hp or so without increasing the red line, that would be pretty good. If I could increase the red line by another 10% via stronger pistons/rods/valve train etc and could grab an additional 10% of hp, that would be nice too (e.g. a total of 155 hp at say 7,000 rpm). I just don't want to have driveability issues.

For those tempted to suggest a B20 or other exotic solution, don't. I don't want to embark on an ongoing developmental project. I just want to order up my new engine, pay my money, plunk it in the car, and drive away, just more strongly. I'm a lot older than almost everybody here, and have been through my high-performance years, so when I say I'm not looking for too much, I'm not looking for too much. Just ....something.

I figure that this board has the best collection of 3G experts in the country, so what do you guys think? Thx.

Hal

[cygnus x-1]

What you need is a well done stock rebuild with a few extra performance add ons. Have the head milled to lower the combustion chamber volume. That will bump up the compression. Make sure to use OEM Honda pistons too for your specific engine. DO NOT USE AFTERMARKET CAST PISTONS. They may have a deeper dish in the piston top so you will lose CR with those. OR you can spring for custom forged pistons and get whatever CR you want, but cost will be much higher. You should be able to get away with 10:1 or better with premium gas. And you can always back off the timing if it pings a little too. Have the shop do a performance 3-angle valve job. Make sure to specify a performance grind and not a stock refresh. This will help it breath better (and airflow is by far the biggest limitation of this engine). Get a stage 1 cam regrind from either Delta or Colt. I have the Colt stage 1 triflow. The idle is no different than stock. Low end torque is as good as stock. Mid-range power is significantly improved. At 3000RPM it comes alive. Get the Pacesetter header. It will help more at the top end but it will also help bottom end as well. And of course a decent exhaust system to go with it.

And that's about it. Weight reduction also helps as well. Obviously not to increase power but to make the car faster. And cut down on the cheeseburgers.

EDIT: Also, could have the flywheel lightened up or go with a lightweight aluminum flywheel from Clutchnet (pricey though). Won't increase static torque but will reduce inertia to make the car accelerate faster. Just like weight reduction elsewhere. And as always, good quality bearings, oil pump, and attention to detail in the machine work. Have all parts balanced for smoother power and better reliability. A competent machine shop will know all of this already.

C|

[MessyHonda]

if he is going to bump compression might as well get 11:1 pistons.

[2oodoor]

* with the blended fuels we can expect to see in the next few years, would increasing compression be a good long term choice? any thoughts?
*what is delta's stage one cam? 262, 272?
*W261" you kind of went two different directions with your quest..lol
I will say if you increase the flow of this engine you will find yourself having to get on it to make motion. I have a ported intake, milled head, P&P around the exhaust, DC header, ahhemm.very free flowing exhaust, and my car sounds like I am getting on it when I am only giving it off idle throttle to accelerate, and it is not all noise either. Honestly I do have give it a mild punch, it just does not like light pedal, it won't move. It sprints up to the speed limit and then It gets real queit. I have to use premium fuel or a good blend of prem and regular.

I think any mod in building that will increase the efficeincy of the power plant without forcing extra gas with turbos, fat injectors, oversized valves and deep cam.. will be the best things to do all in all. But be prepared to have a blast driving it in the metro environment..

[bobafett]

delta 272 cam, pacesetter or whatever header you can find, and a quiet exhaust system. as for the rebuild i would just order up a custom set of diamond pistons to whatever specs you want. the rebuild itself shouldn't be too costly. also i think that whatever you do use a good set of bearings, oem or king/acl/clevite etc, and GET THE BOTTOM END BALANCED.

an adjustable cam gear might be able to shift your powerband around a bit if you are unhappy with it after the other mods.

[cygnus x-1]

The stage 1 Colt triflow is 270i/260i/274e. Delta I think has straight 260 or 272. There is more info in the stickies and older posts.

With my particular setup I would say low end torque is good. Now when I did my rebuild I started with a 1.8L and ended up with a 2.0L, so that skews the results a little. I also still have a basically stock exhaust so that may also have something to do with it. Will be really interesting to see what happens when I get my S&S 4 to 1 header on with a real exhaust system.

C|

[AccordEpicenter]

Get a header, cai, catback, test pipe, cam, high compression pistons and go obd1 on an LS intake manifold/tb combo, portmatched to the head. If your gonna rev to 7k youll prolly be ok without major headwork, after that youll need springs/retainers probably at least. All that setup should get you decent mileage without being too grumpy to drive around town depending on the size of cam and the tune, plus the engine will come alive pretty good. The only downside is cost

[2ndGenGuy]

* with the blended fuels we can expect to see in the next few years, would increasing compression be a good long term choice? any thoughts?

My thoughts are that you will be okay, as long as you don't go crazy high. I don't think gas companies want to alienate customers who have high compression cars from the factory by blowing them up.

[88LXi68]

As far as machine shops to rebuild the engine you can try Carlquist Competition Engines in Oakville, CT. They build a lot of engines and do great work. Ask for Bill, he built my LS/Vtec, and I am sure he can come up with some suggestions on what to do to get what you are looking for. You may need to provide the P/N for the higher compression pistons and stronger rods guys are using here as well as contact info for the reground cams.

[88Accord-DX]

Come on now, we all know that H22 is what you need. Along with some turbo & inter-cooler. Get the 2 1/2" exhaust, some AEM management, CIA, bow-off valve & wild cam gear. JK!!!!

[AccordEpicenter]

dammit dereck!! You just HAD to mention H22 didnt you? Now here come all the dumbass ricer H22 OMGHI2U V-TECH>* comments.

INBEFOREMOTORSWAPTHREADJACK

ROFL

[MessyHonda]

lol...a20 turbo....or high compression NA build.

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

If your only looking for 20 more HP you can do that with not too much work. I would get a basic rebuild with a delta ( i believe its a 260 or 262) mild grind camshaft, some head work like porting or 3-angle valve job, ADJ cam gear, I/H/E, and maybe a B18 intake manifold. The camshaft and head work can get done during the rebuild process and the rest of the stuff is bolt-ons that can be done at anytime.

[MessyHonda]

If your only looking for 20 more HP you can do that with not too much work. I would get a basic rebuild with a delta ( i believe its a 260 or 262) mild grind camshaft, some head work like porting or 3-angle valve job, ADJ cam gear, I/H/E, and maybe a B18 intake manifold. The camshaft and head work can get done during the rebuild process and the rest of the stuff is bolt-ons that can be done at anytime.

i agree with this but also milling the head like .020 will bump up compression making more power.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Back from the dead...

some good information