Car just won't start...advice gladly appreciated

[G. White]

Here's the skinny, I pride myself in digging in the service manual and doing many searches but this problem has me baffled. I was changing out my cv axle seals and upper control arms for the prelude ones... and having a few beers, when I committed a cardinal sin, I left the radio on to have some music. (I fried a coil the last time I did that.) I was smart and started the car on occasion to keep the battery charged. The third time I went to start the car it took a long time to start. It cranked fine (power/battery wise) just took a long time to fire. I didn't think much of it and took the car around the block to make sure my maintenance held together. Everything checked good, so I put it up for the night.

Next morning I was driving to work, and about a mile down the road the car lightly lurched (like I had pushed the clutch in a little and let it out quickly.) It caught my attention, my gas was low but the fuel light had not come on yet. Another half mile down the road it did it again. Now I thought I was running out of gas. I made a right hand turn and the car stalled. Tried to start it several times and no dice.

Sat on the side of the road for about 30 minutes with the emergency flashers on and still tried less than 10 times to start the car. Battery died. Put a couple gallons of gas in and jumped the car off my silverado and it started up for about 5 seconds and died again. Cranked the car again a few times after but would not start. Towed car home.

TROUBLESHOOTING...Fuel pump 35psi on gauge, good flow into my jar with line disconnected and cranking engine, and I hear it prime when I turn the key. I'm Getting good gas to the FPR, swapped that out and had same results. I ohmed the injector resistor according to the manual and it checked good. Ohmed the coil and it checked good. Even getting spark at the plugs. Cap and rotor look good on the inside. Timing belt didn't break, (it turns when cranking). I changed out the cam position sensor in the dizzy with another I had in the garage. Same results. Ignition control module swapped.... with same results. Battery has a good charge on it. (It's only a year old.) I changed out the main relay with a new one 5 months ago. I hear the click under the dash when I turn the key. No check engine light on the cluster. No codes from engine computer. I turn the key and the red light comes on. I tried starting with starting fluid in the throttle body. Didn't work. The car cranks great, but doesn't even sputter like it's trying to start. All the fuses are good.

I can't think of anything else to check. The car ran great prior to this mess. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[ShyBoyCA6]

check for grounds?

[G. White]

All the grounds are clean and tight....

[2drSE-i]

Alternator?

[G. White]

Would the alternator cause the car to not start? I was reading where one of the input conditions to the ECU was the alternator FR signal. I have noticed for a year now, that whenever I put a power load on the car (headlights, brakes, heater, ect) that the idle speed drops almost to point where it stalls the car. It's the original alternator with 182k mi.

[w261w261]

Any indication that the dizzy might have been getting weak, like the tach jumping a bit? Did it run perfectly before you started to work on it? Did you do anything under the hood at all before you worked below? Did you spill beer on the distributor?

I can't recall the circumstances, but I seem to recall a post where the coil passed the ohm test, but still was failing to deliver. I searched, but couldn't find anything.

[2oodoor]

main relay
Have you confirmed spark by using an extra plug stuck on a pulled wired?
Make sure you didnt mash something when you had it jacked up.
What is the battery voltage?
When you run a battery all the way down, the alternator is not designed to completely charge up a dead battery so it is best to use a battery charger first to get it back up. You can blow an alternator doing that. Just FYI

[G. White]

Any indication that the dizzy might have been getting weak, like the tach jumping a bit? Did it run perfectly before you started to work on it? Did you do anything under the hood at all before you worked below? Did you spill beer on the distributor?

I can't recall the circumstances, but I seem to recall a post where the coil passed the ohm test, but still was failing to deliver. I searched, but couldn't find anything.

Everything was just fine before working on it. I'm all about sharing some brew, just not with the car.

[G. White]

main relay
Have you confirmed spark by using an extra plug stuck on a pulled wired?
Make sure you didnt mash something when you had it jacked up.
What is the battery voltage?
When you run a battery all the way down, the alternator is not designed to completely charge up a dead battery so it is best to use a battery charger first to get it back up. You can blow an alternator doing that. Just FYI

When I got home, I removed the battery and put it on a charger. It was at full charge when I put it back in the car for my troubleshooting. I have one of those test lights that goes in between the spark plug wire and plug. Each cylinder lights up during cranking. I always use the front tow loop to jack the car (nothing to crush there.) & jack stands go under the jack points on the sides of the car.

However, I have heard of the main relays on these cars doing goofy things. Mine isn't that old, but it probably wouldn't hurt to look into it.

[2oodoor]

that coil may be failing under load conditions and Im trying to associate the key being left on a long time without running to whatever issue this is youre having.. and damaged coil is logical so maybe swap that part too.

You seem to have fire and fuel but no boom boom at combustion time, hopefully youre not looking at engine problems.

[G. White]

that coil may be failing under load conditions and Im trying to associate the key being left on a long time without running to whatever issue this is youre having.. and damaged coil is logical so maybe swap that part too.

You seem to have fire and fuel but no boom boom at combustion time, hopefully youre not looking at engine problems.

I think that has some validity to it. I have a 2 year warranty on the coil, so I will just go ahead and replace it to be safe. I don't beat on the engine at all, am meticulous with the maintenance and have no mods, so I'm pretty confident that the motor is all right.

[2oodoor]

let me know results..
how are you liking the lude arms? you buy new ones with ball joints on them or used?
I will be putting those on my sedan soon as well.

[G. White]

let me know results..
how are you liking the lude arms? you buy new ones with ball joints on them or used?
I will be putting those on my sedan soon as well.

I used all new hardware with old lude arms.....new ball joints. Adjusted all the way out got rid of my camber issues from lowering the car. My steering is a lot tighter now and the wheel doesn't dance in my hand anymore. I couldn't be happier. 6--------3/8 washers per side from lowes on the rear side of each arm bolt shims up perfectly.

[Oldblueaccord]

Got spark and got fuel does seem wierd it wont run? Timing belt jumped a few teeth maybe ? Check TDc etc.


wp

[88Accord-DX]

nvm.

[Dr_Snooz]

If you have fuel and fire, then you're missing either timing or air. What condition is the dizzie in? Did a rag get sucked into the intake maybe?

[G. White]

If you have fuel and fire, then you're missing either timing or air. What condition is the dizzie in? Did a rag get sucked into the intake maybe?

Speaking of timing.....I swapped the pick-up coil, but I haven't checked the crank angle sensor. Hmmmmmmmm.

[2oodoor]

Did a rag get sucked into the intake maybe?

Ive seen this happen a couple of random ass times... good suggestion.

[G. White]

I wish it were that easy. I disconnected the air intake at the throttle body and tried starting it. No good.

Things done today---Ohmed the crank angle sensor, checked good. Removed the grounds and "scuffed" the surface underneath. Put everything back together. Cranked car and pulled a spark plug and checked for presence of fuel. That too was good. Pulled the main relay and popped the cover off to look at the solder. No cracks or burned spots.

A new coil is on the shopping list this week.

How do I check to see if my timing is lined up right?

[Oldblueaccord]

Using the site hole that you time the car with turn it over until you feel compression on the #1 cylinder. The cam has marks that should line up with the edges of the head and the word UP. All valves should be close. The timing mark should be on the pointer. I think its a white mark. Rotor button should line up very close to #1 plug tower.

wp

[G. White]

Using the site hole that you time the car with turn it over until you feel compression on the #1 cylinder. The cam has marks that should line up with the edges of the head and the word UP. All valves should be close. The timing mark should be on the pointer. I think its a white mark. Rotor button should line up very close to #1 plug tower.

wp

I put the "UP" at up and lined up the mark on the cam gear with the edges on the head. When I check the timing site hole, the "T"-mark is not lined up with the pointer. Actually I can't see it unless I look up into the hole.

Does that mean the timing is far off enough to not allow the engine to start?

[G. White]

The honda is running again. I swapped in a new coil and it fired right up. The old one ohmed out good but I guess it just sucked ass under load. Thanks to everyone on the site for their ideas and input.

[w261w261]

Great!

[2oodoor]

I put the "UP" at up and lined up the mark on the cam gear with the edges on the head. When I check the timing site hole, the "T"-mark is not lined up with the pointer. Actually I can't see it unless I look up into the hole.

Does that mean the timing is far off enough to not allow the engine to start?

yes it will run there obviously but it is not correctly timed... you can move the belt without taking anything off though.
Remove all the plugs so the engine spins freely with a ratchet wrench on the crank bolt.
Get number 1 up TDC with the T mark, loosen up the timing belt tensioner bolt that stick out thru the cover just about directly under the cam gear, then slide the belt off being very carefull not to disturb it off anything under the lower belt cover (top cover is removed for this and is sounds like yours is already off) then move the cam gear with a 12mm wrench on the pully bolt to line up, slide the belt on.
Turn the crank just a little to catch up the slack in the belt then tighten the tensioner bolt.
Done
The tensioner is spring loaded so when it is free it puts correct tension on the belt, and turning the crank just pulls up the slack.
Turn it a couple revolutions to recheck mark, install plugs and enjoy the 10-20 hp you were missing

[Dr_Snooz]

^^^Thanks for mentioning this Roo.

You can also remove the cam gear with the belt still on. Pull the cam gear, re-position it a few teeth over and put the gear back on. It worked great when I had to replace my cam and didn't want to take the engine apart to do it. You can get a lot more grip on the gear than you can trying to pull the belt over top of the gear with it bolted in place.