Et2 Motor Build...

[hondalude86]

hey rich, i'm pretty sure the valve reliefs are the same on both sides. i'm going to use the rings that came with them with the recommended ring gap. I have exactly an 81mm bore. I'm on a semi limited budget right now, so with that said, there isn't going to be any head work done on this motor out side of the cam and valve springs. i'm not trying to shoot for crazy power, just for good power and reliablitly. i've still got to spend some money on some extreme valving for my koni's because ultimately, thats going to make a bigger difference than another 15-20hp.
I got a new battery (odyessy pc680) and the crank scraper, new oilpressure/water temp gauges, and the rest of my EDIS parts from chris on the way... I just need to find time to take my crank to the machine shop!

[MessyHonda]

how high will it rev or be balanced to?

[rjudgey]

Rev band will depend on how well the head flows and the cam specs, most A20's with some DIY clean up on the head, 3 angle valve seats with matched backcut valves with 1mm seats with appropriate breathing on intake and exhaust should pull clean power to 7.5k rpm with the High CR ratio that the pistons should give I would expect power to be around 150hp with lots of torque maybe bit more if the exhaust mani and system works well.

My A20 pulls cleanly to 8k rpm but thats due to the 285 degree camshaft and my headwork, but should be higher still as the stock cast manifold and crappy crush bent 2.25" exhaust is really choking the crap out this engine. I think with a decent mani and system mine would certainly put down around 210-220bhp and possibly more if i switched to the high compression A18 big valve head i have thats been recently built for this car. Still weighing up pros and cons of both designs and all the time it ain't broke I'm less enclined to swap it.

[hondalude86]

I'm going to set the rev limit at 7.5k possibly
I have the 285degree camshaft, DCOE 45 with 41mm chokes and am planning on modding my collector with a 2.25 with only about 3 1/2 feet of exhaust past the collector with the turn down, and i honestly believe that with what I have now without any headwork i should be able to pull down 140whp at 5280 altitude... pretty easily... my only gauge is this...

my motor with out the high compression pistons with all the other listed mods but with a smaller 2inch collector pulled my 152whp prelude that weighs about 2100lbs without me. so here at this altitude i figure my white prelude makes in the 125whp range with slightly taller gearing... but lighter car. So i figure that i had about 120whp with the mods that i had before or very close to that... So even thinking about this right now, i'm thinking 160whp with the ignition tune. either way, i'm pretty fuckin' excited about it...
let me know what you guys think...

[MessyHonda]

i bought my coupe off a member here and i can say that the A20 head can flow really good(port n polish with 10:1 ratio). i did the OBD1 conversion with pico and i just used a pr4 ecu that is the LS 1.8 integra computer that will rev to 7.2k and im really happy with it. stock valves springs so i never try to take it that high. the motor has proven to make 164whp but here at sea level. im sure the motor can make more if it had a good tune and better exhaust. im really excited to see your build.

[hondalude86]

Damn, this makes me super excited messy, time to prove that we can take motors only capable of ~80whp in factory tune and double it!!!

[MessyHonda]

yeah your thread just inspired me to finish the a20...just bought some obx headers. trying to see if i can get some bigger injectors next and trying to get it tuned so i can daily drive it without getting 22mpg. its a fun car to drive when civics pull up next to me because this is a mid14 sec car maybe high 13s once tuned

[hondalude86]

does anyone know the head volume of our cars?

[gfrg88]

dude!!!! I just noticed your in denver!!!! we need to get together soon, so i can check out your car!!


btw, a group of us (CO Acurazine members) have been working on putting this together, 5280fest.com check it out!

[hondalude86]

Damn. I live northglenn right over by boondocks. I've got 2 2nd gens. One with a bseries swap and one that I'm currently working on along with a 1994 vtec del sol

[rjudgey]

Not sure what the stock size is have the volumes in a old thread somewhere on pp.com of my A20 head with it shaved and the valves deshrouded and walls polished.
It's pretty easy to double up power on any ET/A series engine I think I've proven that for the last 10 years it's cracking the over 200bhp mark that really needs heavy investment, to be honest the pistons and rods are a bit overkill you can make 200bhp with pretty much stock modified internals from A20A3/4 with the higher CR ratio pistons. Thats what I'm running at the mo but std bore size, next engine will see probably a 83mm bore size now that I've seen your pistons tempted to maybe try them any chance you can get some shots of them side on and top on and maybe near a cylinder head with valves sticking out so we can see how close the pockets are to being at the correct angle etc. What make are the pistons and what bore size? A flat top piston in a std A series should easily see 10:1 CR ratio without any shaving of any sort, so those ones you have combined with some head shaving, decking should bring you up to around 11:1 maybe 11.5:1 or more if you go extreme on the head shaving like 1.5mm off it and .5mm off the deck. Can only imagine the CR ratio combined with an A18 head be looking at well over 12:1!! Would definately only be able to use high octance fuel then!!

Those rods and pistons can easily handle 9k rpm it's making the valve train take that. Would definately need some Bisi springs which would also be good at increasing valve lift although that's not so good for cam bearing wear in the head, thats the main issue with high revving A series they chew up the cam bearings in the head quite quickly, can be fixed machining in some tougher bearings but this could be a little costly, i find that stripping the rockers off every 10k and inspecting the bearings and polishing back up helps keep it a little less troublesome. Thing what i like about a well built A series just looks so unassuming, people look at it and think are just another old 4 banger probably 8 valve OHC rattles and shocks and knocks like tractor engine from the 60's (they do compared to a DOHC 16) and made worse from having to run bigger bore clearances than mild tune engine, but when you give it the beans they all look in horror as you see the air vortex's as it's being swallowed at near supersonic speeds!! Thing that really impresses me that for an old engine 1. very simple very little in the way of moving parts, 2. very little frictional losses, 3. Very light rotating mass the block has one of the lightest cranks I've ever seen no counter weights hence the rattly engine sydrome but upside is weighs nearly half the weight of a Bseries crank, the rods also are some of the lightest yet strongest I've seem mine regularily see 8k and last a long time doing so even though they've been used for 60k plus miles in a stock engine before getting polished, shot peened and balanced by me! The stock piston pins though are too heavy duty and some Patent OEM lighter ones solves that issue. What you get is a very quick revving engine and with the right cam and exhaust you also get a very high revving engine!! 8K is easy 8.5k needs a quality header and the right size mandrel bent system 9k would be achievable with a custom camshaft with the right duration and lift. Talking probably 295 degrees with 11.5mm lift maybe 12mm lift combine all of that with big valves, high CR ratio some huge bike carbs or ITB's with a lot of time on dyno and you would easily see 250bhp maybe more potentially with more custom titanium parts on the rods, pins, valves and valve train you could be looking at over 270bhp with engine peak power around 9k mark then were talking King motorsport spec which apparantly had around 345bhp although they've never emailed me back to give me any specifics in fact never even acknowledged my damn email which i think is just plain rude!! So I've been doing all this R&D on my own for so long it is really nice that you guys listen to what I say and give it a bash building up these old engines as much as others like Vtec and I do too in a way I just love these old engines as they are like the cars there in they have character!

[zoldrin]

Hey Ryan I've been doing quite a lot of research about the B16 LSD into A2K5 trans or CG trans. There is some slight clearance issues with the LSD and the outer case, but easily rectified. I am intending to do the CG internals onto the A20 bell housing with the B16 LSD. Here are two good threads on the topic:

http://www.redpepperracing.com/forum...3&#entry315473

http://www.ht-archive.com/showthread.php?t=2276278

From what I understand the normal A20 axles are compatible with either the stock CG diff or the B16 LSD diff... is this correct?

Keep us updated on the build I'm really interested, especially if/when you start playing around with LSD/Axles/Tranny.

How much were the Eagle rods by the way? What cam are you using?

H

[gfrg88]

Damn. I live northglenn right over by boondocks. I've got 2 2nd gens. One with a bseries swap and one that I'm currently working on along with a 1994 vtec del sol

I know exactly where that's at!!! I live up literally across from Flatirons mall

[hondalude86]

zoldrin
I got both the eagle rods and the pistons from ebay for just shy of 700 bucks plus shipping. really a killer deal.

I'm pretty pumped about the idea of the LSD, but right now, i've got my money spent very carefully, so there isn't much wiggle room.

As far as the diff idea, i'm pretty sure the internals are nearly the same enough that with the final drive on the b16 diff you can run modified axles to keep your (rather mine) base model hubs. I figured Dx outter cvs with Si inner for the trans... but i do have an A2k5 trans i could just as easily use with out the fear of it not fitting in my dx trannys... I'm def loving the idea for sure, and will probably be on my christmas list... I knew there was a reason i was keeping my Si tranny around for a reason. Also, another brain fart, rather than getting new Dx and Si axles and making one good pair it might be a better idea for me to just get Si hubs from a junk yard and new Si axles so that i could go back to the DX trans quickly if i needed, plus i wouldn't run the chance of fuckin' up the inner cv's... hmm just a thought
DUDE! i'm over in those parts all the time, because my GF's parents live in Rockcreek...

[gfrg88]

nice!! We need to meet up sometime..

BTW, hope you can make it out to 52080fest, it's gonna be at the phat cats on westminster promenade right off 36 and 104th

[hondalude86]

I know that place... i looked at the site the other night. I'm debating on wether or not to enter in an old skool honda in the mix of glitzy shiny nice cars... so i doubt it. but I'll definetly drive it. Either way... I'll probably be there.

[hondalude86]

oh, BTW, i have the delta 285 regrind.

[Ichiban]

As far as the diff idea, i'm pretty sure the internals are nearly the same enough that with the final drive on the b16 diff you can run modified axles to keep your (rather mine) base model hubs. I figured Dx outter cvs with Si inner for the trans... but i do have an A2k5 trans i could just as easily use with out the fear of it not fitting in my dx trannys... I'm def loving the idea .

I modified my 2g Accord with prelude si wheelbearings and hub flanges, I did it so I could run the teg shafts which are big spline at each end, but you could do the same thing to upgrade to one size axleshaft as well. I've tried fitting the bigger inner cups over the smaller splined guts and nothing inside lines up. Way too sloppy of a fit. Just an idea.

[gfrg88]

I know that place... i looked at the site the other night. I'm debating on wether or not to enter in an old skool honda in the mix of glitzy shiny nice cars... so i doubt it. but I'll definetly drive it. Either way... I'll probably be there.

My 86 will be in there


I'll have my build thread with tons of pics up pretty soon.. Btw, most of the judges will be guys like me, that love seeing different builds, old school, underdogs, etc...of course we also love shiny new cars too

[hondalude86]

Ok guys, i've got my crankshaft in the shop getting reworked... Going to set me back 155 bucks... have to hard weld the cranks rod journal that got messed up... but on the bright side its going to be perfect and new.

Got to put all my pistons together tomorrow with the rods. btw the reliefs are exactly the same and the wrist pans are dead in the middle of the piston... so it doesn't matter which order it goes in... just saying.

Also just ordered some new head studs ARP style... Got the ones for the MZR motor'd miata. no crank scraper yet, and i'm not sure what the hell is going on...

[rjudgey]

See if you can get them to chamfer edge the oil holes on the journals will help with oil transfer onto the main bearings, you may need to tell them the crank direction of rotation though to have this done properly if they haven't a clue what I'm on about then don't bother letting them touch it!!

[hondalude86]

I got my pistons put together Friday night!

[rjudgey]

Have you put the rings on yet? Should check the ring end gaps are ok with the bores in the block just in case there's an issue with the sizing if too tight will cause problem if too big you'll loose lots of compression and power.

[hondalude86]

yea, i installed them, but i know that i have to take them out and possibly file them down... but for pictures sake, here it is... crappy cell phone pic... so beware..

[rjudgey]

Nice!! Think I'll definately give this combo a try don't forgot to take some pics of the piston crowns near the chambers with the valves open would be nice to see how close they get to the pockets!