Hopefully I'll be starting the car today! I know Gio had to get his running this week or at the end of the month, so hopefully i get mine going first! hahahaha Much Luv Gio!
Only a couple more weeks till i'm making 695hp
Hopefully I'll be starting the car today! I know Gio had to get his running this week or at the end of the month, so hopefully i get mine going first! hahahaha Much Luv Gio!
Only a couple more weeks till i'm making 695hp
Ok, as promised i've got a quite an update... including video...
First lets start with the car in its current state. I think this will be interesting because its looks pretty bad. No seriously, really bad.
I always laugh because i've never really taken any good pictures of this car whilst it has been running! so i figure i had better start taking some pictures just in general to get this whole thing going, and to give everyone an idea of what depressing can kinda look like!
picture of the dash...
Pictures of the engineless bay...
Oh wait, here is an engine going in!!
yes, i did this all by myself, kinda scary really
And of course there is more...
motor in!!! fwew, took quite of bit to get this little baby on the studless motor mounts, but damn is this thing solid! Thanks Cygnus!
some cp love
glamour shots!
carbs on, along with most everything under that!
Exhaust header on!!
videos coming up shortly... Time for a shower during upload.
Last edited by hondalude86; 07-24-2011 at 09:47 PM. Reason: switched captions, whoops!
Now these pictures are click to activate i think...
This video is the first fire up after realizing that I had the EDIS unplugged, so this is literally first try test the wiring of the EDIS with NO MEGAJOLT!
We were impressed that it started up so easily with the limp tune, just nuts!
This video is the base tune on the megajolt, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but watch the bug spray, even though it's idle is up alittle from the increase of advance, you can tell how much smoother it runs.
I have to say that i'm most impressed that I wired this beast up right the very first time!! I guess that's the pay off of doing ALL the wiring all at once... and damn did it suck!
So far, i've notice 2 oil leaks... wtf? right? one looks like it might be the oilfilter housing, i took it off to send the motor to the machine shop, and notice the o ring was alittle flat.
The other seems to be the valve cover, even with all the RTV i used, it's still leaking. whatev! I'll retorque the head to the higher torque as suggested on here. Other than that, its just all about getting this thing all put back together! AND getting some clamps on those radiator hoses!
oh yea, and my tach isn't working cyg... I've got the two yellows one each going to the negative on the coil, i've got the ground of course going to ground, and (this might be what i'm messing up) but i attached the tach wire to the blue wire that came off the coil/dizzy. Am I using the wrong wire? or do i need to pull out the gauge cluster and hook it directly up to the tach? or do i need to use the ground from the original coil wire? Oh yea, and i'd like some maps to play with and ANY advice for tuning this bastard.
Lol and I thought mine sounded bad when idling! Nice to see it was easy to get up and running what did you set your rockers too?
Also what jets you using on the idle and mains?
As long as that blue wire came off the negative of the coil it should be correct. So the EDIS coil has 3 wires going to it. One fat one that goes to +12V, and two smaller ones that go to the ignition module. Those two smaller ones are the "negatives" for the coil and the yellow wires from the diode circuit go to those, one for each. If that's how you have it and it still doesn't work, something else is going on. What that diode circuit does is combine the 2 coil signals into one that the tach can read. As a troubleshooting measure you can try connecting one of the coil "negatives" directly to the blue tach wire (disconnect the diode circuit first) and see what happens. The tach should read half of the actual engine RPM.Originally Posted by hondalude86
You could also try connecting the blue tach wire to the tach output on the MJL. My tach actually works directly from the tach out on the Megasquirt (amazingly) so yours might work directly from the MJL. If that does it then you don't need the diode circuit at all.
Figuring out good timing maps is going to be interesting. If you were on a common plenum manifold it would be easy, but with Webers/ITBs things get weird. I think we can come up with something at least halfway decent though. First question is, what is your idle vacuum at? And then, how fast does it shoot up when you press the throttle? If you could post a datalog with the engine idling for a few seconds and then slowly easing in the throttle until it gets to maybe 3000-4000RPM that would be helpful. Basically I'm just trying to get an idea of how usable the vacuum signal is for engine load indication.
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sounds great cyg... Tomorrow when i go over to the car, i'll try and dataloge some for you as well as see where everything is at. I'm not sure where the idle actually is at, but with the computer hooked up, should be much easier to figure that out, you know since its telling me right there, hahaha! Either way... That's what i have right now. i'm only running the o2 sensor right now off of one bank (driverside) and that happens to be the side that might be acting up.
I used my cute little syncromizer is reading 5.5-6kg/h on cylinders 2-4, but reading 7kg/h on number one. not really sure why but part of me thinks it has something to do with me trying to compensate for the weak cylinder (#2) from before, because now 1 is a little higher.
Also rich, tomorrow i'll check my jets sizes but do you have any suggestions? and as far as the rockers go, i set them a tiny bit snug on the factory settings side. I'm pretty sure i had one of my near final setups jet wise posted somewhere on PP, so i'll see if can dig that up, to try and expedite the process...
So here is the thing, what do i tune first? Get the ignition halfway setup then work with the jets? Or Vice Versa? Knowing that the more advance i go, the leaner the mix will be, but at the same time, i can go loads more on the fuel, and richen it up, and go back and forth on this... So it definitely seems like I need (with some help, Cyg/Rich) to get a good healthy baseline figured first...
Alright right rich, these are my best guess on the jets that are currently in the motor...
Accel pump jets, 45
Accel Discharge, 45 (took out my soldered closed discharge)
main jets, 140
air correctors, 200
emulsion tubes f7
idle jets 50f9
And 40mm chokes
hey, thought this was an interesting comparison
this was with the dizzy, and original build on a stock cam... amazing how much smoother it is and how much better it started, i literally dont have to feed the motor at all for it to stay alive!
The AFR won't change drastically with changes in timing unless your just WAY off, so I think the thing to do is to throw together a reasonable guestimated timing map for now, and tune the fuel first. With the fuel dialed in you can go back and mess with timing. Then go back and make any final tweaks to the fuel after the timing is good. Seems like tuning is sort of a never ending process, but that should get you pretty close.
For the timing, as a worst case you could set up a map that only uses mechanical advance and no vacuum advance. The throttle response won't be great but it will get you driving. To do this just put the same number of advance degrees in for all the MAP values at a given RPM. The following values would be good to start with:
RPM : Advance
800 : 3
1000 : 5
1500 : 9
2000 : 14
2500 : 22
3000 : 26
3500 : 29
4000 : 32
5000 : 34
6000 : 36
7000 : 36
These values should work pretty well for full throttle, but less so for part throttle and idle. At part throttle you need more advance because of the less dense mixture. Normally you can use manifold pressure to base the vacuum advance on but with individual runners the vacuum signal tends to be lumpy and shoots up to almost atmospheric pressure with very little throttle opening. That's why a datalog would be helpful in seeing what your manifold pressure looks like.
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What spec is your camshaft again?
Emulsion tubes I prefer F16
Mains i think you should go upto 145/150
Air correctors bit too high as well start from 170 and see how it goes 180-190works well on mine
Whats your Auxilary venturi size as well?
Will try and open mine up and see what they are at the moment yours shouldn't be too disimilar despite no head work, but you have a better header
and exhaust as well as higher compression.
Hey rich, the biggest reason for the air correctors being so high is the aLtitude. Starting at 5300 on up to 10k will be most the driving... tonight I'm going to throw the car back together, cap off the hvac for the moment and do some idle dip ins for map ideas for cygnus.
yeah, I'm supposed to get mine running by saturday, 10am for car show.. It'll be there one way or another!! even if it's towed there haha!! Looks like it's time for a race to get the cars started!!! xD
awww, fawk!! reading ownz me y0!!! Looks like you win
my cam is a 285i/e duration w/11 or 13mm of lift i think?
hey chris, had a bear of a time getting the port name assigned to the computer without a serial port. was a totally bitch to figure out. either way, just letting you know that I sent you a little datalogging to your paypal email, hope that's ok!
Aren't computers great?
I spent a couple days last week battling with Windows 7. Never had to use Vista thank god.
Just got your log, will take a look.
C|
Just looked over the log you sent. I'm not really familiar with the Megajolt logging; is the "load" column reading MAP in kPa or is there some other scaling factor? If it is kPa then the idle pressure is about 50 kPa, which is pretty reasonable. The higher RPM readings look too low though. I would expect anything above 3000RPM to be closer to 90 kPa, but the highest readings I see are only about 60 kPa.
With the engine not running, what is the load reading? At sea level it would be near 100 but since your at a higher altitude it will be lower.
The advance values in the log actually look halfway decent. They don't appear to change with load but only RPM, which would approximate mechanical advance like I was saying before. So you can probably use the map that's in there for now and work on tuning the carbs first.
C|
None of that was actually under load. Literally in neutral in the drive. Its running pig rich right now too. Ultimately I need together it driving today and do some Carb adjusting then some road data logging.
Alright guys, so i've got my idle down to a more reasonable speed and have been driving it around a little. The car feels great, but there is still plenty of room! 1st thing is I think I might have low compression on the 2nd cylinder, maybe a valve problem, but i say this because of the readings i'm getting now on each cylinder are 5kg/h, 3, 5, 5. (1,2,3,4)... i have the O2 sensor reading right now just on the left bank... I haven't played much with the computer at all, but i do have an exhaust semi on now. still need to drill and weld in the O2 bung to get a better reading a little further down stream.
So I upgraded my Jets to...
F16 emulsion tubes
150 mains
170 Air correctors.
Full throttle in the upper RPMs my A/F is in the 11.5-12.5 ranges...
Partial throttle cruising, Afrs are so lean, that they aren't on the gauge...
idle sometimes is lean sometimes rich, pretty much all over, but lean more than rich with about an 800rpm idle.
Another thing i notice on my way home was pushing the HVAC buttons, you could watch the UEGO read a bit richer, than back to lean again, even at idle! so i'm going to disconnect for a while since its not cold...
Still have not hooked it up to the computer yet but will soon!! I'm freaking out about my leaness... I have some 60f9 idles, do you guys think that will help with my partial leaness and the backfiring? Or should i stick with my current idles and adjust just the computer?
I'd play with the computer a little first..
you got 40mm chokes
what auxilary venturis you got?
hows the upper rpm power band like?
285 degree cam isn't going to like idling at 800rpm!
Also are the carbs balanced properly?
Also howmany turn outs on the idles screws have you got maybe you need a bit more on them?
Will try and check my idle jets i think mine a richer i certiainly run a bigger pump jet over your's think they are 50's
Are your carbs 3 hole progression or 2 hole? newer ones are 4 holes which are much better on part throttle think it's possible to drill if only 2 hole to 4 google it.
Could be they are out of balance.
Also now that you've run the engine check valve lash clearance, do not run them tight the valves will be hotter from the high compression run something like .20 though on inlet and .25 on exhaust
4.50mm aux venturis pretty sure... 3 hole progression... I've got a decent map now, so i'm going to try and start from scratch with the carbies... i've adjusted the carbs but i still have the low 2nd cylinder for some reason... you guys think that an exhaust leak at the header could cause that? or just my tight valves... and to be 100%, i should be setting my valves at .20in intake and .25in exhaust right?
So i've been driving the car around quite a bit. but i've set the rev limiter at 5k, i've got a whopping 30 miles so far, plus i need to relax the valves tomorrow afternoon. Plus i've got a bitch exhaust leak with a stripped stud in my head...
To be honest, it doesn't quite have that light pippy motor feel yet, it still feels heavy, not quite b16 territory...
Here is the Map i'm running right now...
http://www.autosportlabs.org/download.php?id=1086
Last edited by hondalude86; 07-29-2011 at 07:57 PM.
Just looked at your datalog. The MAP (load) values look closer to what I would expect. The highest I see is 83kPa, seems maybe still a bit low but I don't know what your altitude is. So, it its what it is. I would guess the load reading with the engine not running is around 85kPa?
For the ignition table, the one you have is ok but way conservative. This will make the engine seem sluggish. The A20 really likes a lot of advance just off idle. I'll put together a more aggressive table tomorrow when I'm more coherent.
C|
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