Well, badnews mates, I have been voluntold to work saturday when the dyno day is, and i'm working like 60mins away too... Grrrr...
Well, badnews mates, I have been voluntold to work saturday when the dyno day is, and i'm working like 60mins away too... Grrrr...
Originally Posted by hondalude86
http://www.metatube.com/en/videos/15...n-On-Saturday/
C|
Fuck work. I just got told I need to work too!! No dyno for us
Aww that sucks! Already got a new dyno date?
Good news and bad news guys!
First the good news is I got to dyno the red lude, and of course without dissapointment it sounded great, got lots of love and didn't blow up.
The bad news is, I was slightly suspicious of having a blown head gasket, and when i checked the oil level before i put her on the dyno, I discovered some chocolate milk looking oil... Not a great way to start the dyno, but of course I am always willing to see what kind of power I'll make anyway, being that this might be the day she dies, I dyno it anyway.
So of course I put up some pretty dissapointing numbers...
*DISCLAIMER all these numbers are numbers to the wheels at 5300ft above sea level. Keep in mind that for every 1000 ft above sea level, you experience roughly a 3% power loss. These numbers are also on a DynoJet.DISCLAIMER END*
Of the two runs, I made 105.61whp @ 5600rpm and 109.11lbs of torque @ 4500rpm...
Yes, that is the disappointing run for my car... White smoke out the back, carbs screaming, and somehow still I got alot of people telling me how impressed they were... Weird. I did data logged all three runs with my megajolt and personally watched my afr, and video'd the runs... This is the power you can expect to run on a potentially blown head gasket with similiar mods
*edit, figuring you have about a 16% alitude loss, and a conservative 13% drivetrain loss, I'm making roughly 138bhp, which is still a 38hp increase over stock...*
Last edited by hondalude86; 11-26-2011 at 05:47 PM.
Dyno Sheet...
Videos!
Pull2
run2.csv - 32.0 KB
Datalogged Pull2
Pull3
run3.csv - 16.7 KB
Datalogged Pull3
Last edited by hondalude86; 11-27-2011 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Added Videos and datalogging...
here is the site where you can download the program to view my datalogged info, otherwise it'll open in excel.
www.autosportlabs.net/MJLJ_V4_Downloads
Last edited by hondalude86; 11-27-2011 at 05:13 PM.
ok guys, here's the compression, and what i've found.
cylinder 1, 170psi
cylinder 2, 170psi
cylinder 3, 160psi
cylinder 4, 155psi
between testing cylinder 3 and 4 i did notice that the O-ring was starting to fall apart, so without a new oring, i just continued my testing. Essentially, what i'm saying is that the compression in both 3 and 4 could be higher than tested.
I did the test at WOT with the engine at normal operating conditions with all the spark plugs out, fuel pump off.
When i took the plugs out they were a slightly rusty colored tan but smelled like an asprin tastes in your mouth. While doing the testing, i did notice that there was a fair amount of discharge (a normal sneeze amount) per revolution. The discharge looked like oil, but had the consistency of water. Upon inspection inside the cylinders though the spark plug holes I could see droplets of green antifreeze on the cylinder walls, with a mixture of the same oily/watery mix lightly coating the tops of the pistons. Of course there is quite a bit of antifreeze mixed into oil, and has been there long enough for it to sludge up on the dipstick and underneath the oil cap. From what I can see, there is no oil in the antifreeze. At this point, it seems that I need to take the head off for further evaluation, but this is what I've discovered today.
Last edited by hondalude86; 11-27-2011 at 05:16 PM.
I looked up the factory torque specs on the arp site for my head studs and they say 90lbs. I have mine torqued down to 65lbs!
I'd still say new gasket and then torque time, just because of the overheating... also the overheating could have been caused by the torque not being sufficient
You don't need anymore than 60lbft I tend to retorque mine every 6 months a extra 5 lb till next rebuild due to the cast iron and ally heads expanding and contracting at different rates to be safe that the gaskets are sealed.
Did you have the block decked and the head skimmed before the rebuild? If so then you could be looking at maybe a crack in the head that's letting in anti freez this would still give you very good compression but obviously leak coolant in as well. Is your coolant expanding too much as exhaust gas would leak into the coolant too so worth getting a carbon dioxide tester in the water to check.
Shame it's not running heathily, for a engine with the mileage you have would be expecting at least 190-200psi compression if you hand gapped the rings, if they were just off the shelf sizes that you put in then the compression is about right to be honest. Get the head off and then have a look at the head gasket which make did you get felpro racing blue with the teflon coating?
I bought the regular felpro head gasket, but i'm going to try and see if there is another one i can get from felpro that might be a little tougher... I didnt have any head work done at all, nore did i get the block decked at all, I wanted to have plenty of meat on both ends in case something like THIS happened.
10.7:1 it should have more power. get that new headgasket on and get the carbs tuned
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
Wish it would've been good! Trust me messy it's got balls!
it sounds hella good. but even my stock a20 made more hp at less rpms. just sounds like it needs a tune and get that cly 4 compression back up
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
You can take a LOT off the head and still be ok. I have part of a cut up cylinder head where I took a 2mm (0.080") test cut off the surface to see if it would cut into the coolant passages, not even close. I also took it to the machine shop that does all my engine work and they said it was fine. If you were to take off that much you would want to check the piston to valve clearance of course, but unless you have a crazy high lift cam it shouldn't be an issue.
C|
Don't forget his bore size is smaller at 81mm, also what's the camshaft specification again?
Trouble with not decking or skimming the head, you leave your self open for issues with head gasket's especially more so with high CR ratio as you have extra stress around the sealing rings, so any slight imperfection in surface or flatness will create a weakness that the engine will eventually break through on the sealing rings. Try a new gasket try to get Felpro racing blue one for A18 or get a another high quality one for A18 as it will have a larger surface area on sealing rings than Felpro, e.g. Ajusa for example can take 81mm bore and have more surface area than Felpro which makes the same gasket for 80mm bore or 83mm bore so has less area to seal between the cylinder and coolant passages. Felpro racing blue is still the best in my opinion but if you have sealing issue you may have to use something else and try a higher torque setting. But then again I suppose maybe the smaller sealing area on the felpro with higher torque might be better as it would put more pressure on to that smaller sealing ring. Who knows, best thing to remove and see where it's leaking should be pretty evident. Are you loosing coolant? Hopefully it's not a crack but to be honest it's easier to change the head than it is to try and skim the block as it's a whole engine out and strip job if the block isn't flat.
As for power, with a 81mm high CR block, the internals are bit heavier than stock, bit more friction from cranks scraper, with the exhaust setup he has and the webers, should be able to make 170bhp at sea level easily if you have to have a CAT then -5-10bhp on top. With head work would be higher and big valves again would be more bhp.
I think it is definitely worth noting that this was power made at 5300ft about sea level. I'm down at least 16% because of the altitude difference. This is essentially a 121whp at sea level car...
what's the cam specs again? and I think while you have the head off you should do a little DIY port and flow job you'll be surprised the difference it makes!! Is there a CAT fitted as well?
So your around the 150bhp mark so for a 1.8l with high CR and some coolant chamber cooling that's not too shabby, although my first cylinder head I had done with a 272 degree cam, with a very worn block and twin webers stock exhaust system was doing 145bhp so gives you some idea what a basic head job can do!
Ryan, I'd give performance porting a call for some mild head work. Your car def needs it with all the other stuff done to it.. I'll be hitting the dyno again this Friday
I think a lot of you are forgetting the original problem, a headgasket issue. Thats why he isn't making a lot of power, and if you look a the dyno sheets he is losing power after 5k so it could be a timing/cam issue.
Rich as far as I remember he has a 282 delta
I think he needs to try a slightly less aggressive camshaft with a stock head, I've had issues running 285 degree in anything other than a full blown race style head. But yes Ryan hurry up and find out WTF is going on with coolant in the cylinders!!! Pull yer finger out man!!! ;0)
Yeah rich, i've got the delta 282, with 11mm of lift, iirc. I'm going to pull that bitch head out and do a little port work on it myself... To make you guys happy, hahaha. But as of right now, we've been getting dumped on with snow as of late. We got about 8 inches total today in the Denver Metro, and my little white prelude is NOT liking it! hahaha, I've got my idle fixed after 4 years of a 3k+ idle, and now at 750rpm, I keep thinking its going to die. Definetly the quietest car I currently own, between a near open exhaust carbed lude and a 430whp turbo car with external wastegate, my white prelude is hands down the queitest.
As far as exhaust goes rich, I'm only running the modded S&S header with a 32" long thrush glasspack and a turn down. Simple, quiet enough for autocross, and pretty light weight. I'd love to build a few different exhausts with this car, but for the money (20$ glass pack, and another 20$ in flanges, misc exhaust parts) I can't really argue right now when money is tight. hopefully the weather breaks soon...
I am also going to take your earlier advice and remove my thermostat and probably clean out my heater core, and possibly run that too... Not sure, but it would be nice to have additional means to cool the car in a crunch moment, i'm just not 100% convinced that the heater cores are not an issue with these cars. again, nothing to exciting to report, but at the very least, I should have the head off the car this weekend, so that I can order my head gasket. Then i'll take all the valves out and start working this head over, provided everything looks fine.
I will say in hindsight...
If i was going to do all this all over again, I would have tried to find a different a18 head, cleaned it up, and built this all in my a20 block that i have sitting in the garage. The biggest reason isn't for anything other than the ability to easily move the motor into another car or application, say i someday moved the motor into a fuel injected car, I would be a simple head swap. But with the '85 model ET2, i'm stuck with the 1 head and the 1 head gasket. I guess its just a great excuse to build the a20 i have at the house already for maybe another prelude/accord someday
Damn weather! lol!
Hopefully it's not a crack and the block is pretty even then it's just a case of skimming head a smidge, then cleaning up the throats, keep the seats the same but have the valves back cut to match the seat sizes, worth getting some bronze guides from SI and have those fitted whilst your there, re shape the exhaust valve ramp and port, and just a general clean up on inlet side, it's worth radiusing the inlet port mouths to where it joins up on the inlet manifold rather than matching it, and do some work on the inlet manifold itself as well, including radiusing the inlet on the carb side so you have like a staggered radius edge on the head then the inlet onto the carbs, helps with air/fuel reversion effects and increases flow like you find with a funnel and air horns etc. Also don't forget about the chambers really helps if you can smooth those out and unshround the valves and remove any lips around the valve seats from machining, as your going turbo you won't mind an decrease in CR ratio especially as you'll be skimming the head again. Don't forget to increase the size of the inlet and exhaust gaskets so they match the heads ports. Your using the stock A18 valve springs right? Other that than that I can't think of anything else you can do on a budget, ask Santa for some big valves from SI :0) Try and increase the port size on the exhaust ports but don't go crazy talking like 1-2mm bigger at most. maybe going slightly larger nearer you get to the header as it has no water ways near that area that are too close.
What plugs are you using?
I have the bisimoto valve springs and of course I'm using the ngk factory replacement spark plugs. I also a full si valve train in another head.
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