Holley 2 Barrel carburetor, 2300 version not Weber / Holley version on a 1987 2.0?

[apache07x]

Has anyone tried fitting a Holley 2 Barrel to their Accord? You know the 350 / 500 cfm versions? I have a 1987 2.0 I've fit one onto and seems as if it's going to work. However, I'm getting another manifold I can port out some to match up a little better to the carburetor. It has a slight stutter when you level out with cruise on but I'm not sure if it is the jetting too lean or too restrictive of an opening on the intake manifold? Any ideas? May just need to be jetted up some but I figure porting out the manifold some can't hurt since right now it's like trying to pour a half gallon through a quart funnel all at once. If anyone has done this swap give me some insight on your jetting, pump cam, choke settings etc etc. I tried a Weber on this car and it just would not run. Think I just got a bad unit but I got jerked around so much by the vendor I finally just decided to make an adapter for the Holley I already had. Much better, runs and idles better than it ever has, 22.5 mpg and I haven't even tuned it out yet or put my header on. A little disappointing on the mileage but after I get it jetted and timed with the header on is when it will really matter. Figured out how to utilize both vacuum hoses and have them work on the dizzy too with the Holley.

[apache07x]

Have got this beast about done. Needs a little more work on the choke and jetting but it is close. Don't have any solid mileage numbers yet due to jet changes but I will share when I do if anyone is interested? I'll share photos as soon as I can.

[apache07x]

I need to have more posts before it will let me share photos....lol

[apache07x]

One thing I can say is this car runs a whole lot better than it ever did with the factory carburetor. At least since I had it but it had 154k on it or so when I got it too.

[apache07x]

I do have an extra intake manifold for one of these 2.0 carburetor engines if anyone is in need of one? PM me.

[apache07x]

Okay I think I can post pictures now. So here you go if interested?

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[Oldblueaccord]

Sweet I always wanted to try one but never can find a running carbed accord to fool with. I love the 2300 Holley!


wp

[2ndGenGuy]

That is amazing! What size is that carburetor? Nice work there!

[apache07x]

Thanks! It is a Holley 2 barrel. 350 CFM. The one I used is off of an old Ford with an automatic choke but a Holley part # 7448 would work fine as well. Maybe better? Running a jet size of 61 which may be a bit lean but it runs well enough and don't overheat. Getting about 18 - 19mpg in town and lot's of power I haven't had a chance to check highway mileage yet but hoping it gets 24 to 25 mpg. I think the 33mpg days I got with the stock carburetor are done.

Unfortunately I had to change the head too because I broke an exhaust bolt off that I couldn't get out of it. The head change in turn has apparently boosted my compression enough to make the bottom end start to knock since it's knocking now and it wasn't before. Hoping it was an exhaust leak or just because it's so loud now that I was hearing the exhaust reverberate but I'm leaning toward a knock now. Tired of working on this thing. I love this car and want to drive it not work on it all of the time.

[apache07x]

[Buzo]

Thanks! It is a Holley 2 barrel. 350 CFM. The one I used is off of an old Ford with an automatic choke but a Holley part # 7448 would work fine as well. Maybe better? Running a jet size of 61 which may be a bit lean but it runs well enough and don't overheat. Getting about 18 - 19mpg in town and lot's of power I haven't had a chance to check highway mileage yet but hoping it gets 24 to 25 mpg. I think the 33mpg days I got with the stock carburetor are done.

Unfortunately I had to change the head too because I broke an exhaust bolt off that I couldn't get out of it. The head change in turn has apparently boosted my compression enough to make the bottom end start to knock since it's knocking now and it wasn't before. Hoping it was an exhaust leak or just because it's so loud now that I was hearing the exhaust reverberate but I'm leaning toward a knock now. Tired of working on this thing. I love this car and want to drive it not work on it all of the time.

You are doing a good job here, but 18-19 MPG are kind of low for the size of the car. Does the additional power you got worth the 15% fuel economy you lost? I tryed with a different holley, mine was 5200 and I thought the 18-19 MPG I got after the swap was because my holley was just old and worn out. But I see you are getting similar fuel economy and your carb looks newer than mine... mhhh... intersting.

[2ndGenGuy]

I have a feeling that 2300 carb is quite a bit bigger than the 5200 though. The 2300 is basically half a 4-barrel, I think. I'm curious what size the barrels are.

[2oodoor]

I really cant imagine that type of holley having any reasonable daily drivability.
good luck!

The issues you have to consider are all the circuits in that carb. The accelerator pump for one, squirts a massive amount of fuel in initially at off idle throttle. Then you're jetting , float level choices and power valve. A lot of gas metering there to be able to make work for any kind of economy or even consistant good drivability in all weather.

Full race, absolutley that carb can do the job just fine im sure. At least that carb is tunable and if you use some of the good Holley aftermarket support items like fancy metering blocks and power valve protectors, venturi booster selections, you may run into some good luck with mixed driving who knows....
Good work though!

[apache07x]

Well as far as drivabilaty it drives fine really no issues at all. Choke works correctly, takes off smoothly no hesitation in the pump the only issue I have had is when your full throttle into it at about 4k it want's to stutter but I've been having problems with the filters plugging due to somebody putting something in my tank which I'm about to drain. However, that could be a timing issue rather than a fuel issue. I've only drove it a couple hundred miles with it on there and really haven't been able to play with it much yet. I circle track race so tuning these carbs is second nature to me and I've always been able to make them work fine without a bunch of fancy aftermarket parts.

Mileage wise the 18 to 19 I've gotten has been in town driving and I tend to have a heavy foot so I don't think it's too bad. But I really don't know yet how bad it is? I work close to home now so I haven't got on the highway much with it and the one time I did I got 22.5 with it and it ran awful at that time. I'm expecting 24 or 25 with it and I'll be content with that considering that's about what I got with the stock carb most of the time. Got a bit better once in a while with the stock unit but not consistently. Not sure what the bore size is the only other 2300's I have are 500 CFM race carburetors which are bigger. CFM wise this one is a 350 CFM which is comparable to the webers. I believe when I get done it will get comparable mileage numbers to a weber, a lot more power when you need it and having had both on this car I can already say it drives a whole lot better than a weber does in my opinion.

[Oldblueaccord]

Just a FYI the Ford motorcraft carbs might be a little less than 350 cfm then that actual real Holley carb. It depends on the size of the butterflys.

i think the Holley 350 cfm is 1.5" and the 500 is 1 11/16". dunno anything about the fords.

wp

[apache07x]

Just to clarify this is an actual Holley carburetor and not a Motorcraft. While it is off of a Ford car you have to remember 50 years ago Holley actually made a lot of carburetors for production cars, including Fords, and this unit is a 350 CFM off of one of those.

As a side note I had one of my 500CFM race carbs on it for a few days and it actually seemed to run pretty good but I couldn't imagine fuel mileage would have been any good so I took it off. But it did have a lot of power.

[apache07x]

Okay here is an update for you guys that have been following this and may be wondering how it's going? The aforementioned stutter I spoke of a couple of posts back was timing just as I suspected. It actually was advanced too far. Timing marks are either real dirty or about gone and my old eyes can hardly see what they say. My eyes are the biggest part of that problem but anyways the stutter appears to be gone. Still is running a bit rich so I may go down one or two size(s) on my jets. Here is what everyone is wondering still getting 18 in town but I took it for a 110 mile jaunt yesterday with about 15 to 20 of that being in town and I got 24.4 mpg. Not bad at all considering I got 25 or so with the original setup. Think it may still get a touch better than that but I cannot complain. Especially considering how much better it drives and runs. No more shaky idle or stalling or stumbling on take-off and the car always smelling of gas. I'm a pretty happy camper right now!

If anyone is wondering I just used a flat piece of aluminum plate from here, http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...=76&top_cat=60 , to make my adapter and cut it out with a hole saw and dremel. Counter sunk the bolt holes that bolt it to the intake for obvious reasons and purchased the hardware from Lowes and Advance auto parts. I'm running a 50cc pump with a blue pump cam, 28 squirter and 58 jets. Probably go down a touch on the jet size like I said as it smells a bit rich at stoplights and such.

I can't stress enough the importance of fixing all of your vacuum leaks on these things. I changed my head due to a different problem, busting a exhaust stud off in it, and of course changed the intake gasket because of it. Anyways what a difference in the way it runs because of a vacuum leak on the intake or a burnt valve. The engine now idles smooth in gear with lights on and my jet size so far has went from a 73 to a 58 on the carburetor. A huge, huge difference because of a small problem I refused to acknowledge.

[2oodoor]

Ive actually been looking at the off road Holley 4 bbl with adjustable secondaries as an alternative to a Weber one day. Not real close to that yet but it is good to have you on board for referencing. I am very interested in your results.
Are you using the vacuum advance the way oem set up does? It drives me nuts to not be able to set these cars up with vac advance coming on at tip in throttle like on a V8.
You really have to play around with the timing on these when you do any modifications and it is hard to get a medium point for all driving styles.
I hear you on the eyes bit, I live with my streamlight scrion led rechargable on my side like a sidearm.. lol
We used to use those 2300 Holleys on older fords with variable venturi MCU systems that just were not repairable or kept eating up diaphragms. They were sold as replacements for them at one time so there should be some in the yards if there not all crushed yet lol.

[apache07x]

Well been a while since I posted work has been keeping me real busy. A major problem I had that took me a while to fix was the timing was 1 tooth off. I knew it was but no time to fix. When I initially set it up I either looked at the service manual incorrectly or clicked on the wrong link. I had it set up for a manual transmission.....mine is an automatic. Needless to say, but I will anyways, that being off by one tooth made it run horrible after a bit since the compression being blown into the crankcase was in turn blowing oil from the vent into my air cleaner, which effectively plugged the air filter, and made the engine leak oil . Seems to run a whole lot better now that the motor is not fighting itself. Anyways will post some mileage results shortly now that it's running properly. I suspect they will be better. Hoping so at least.

Roodoo2 What I found on the distributor vacuum is this. Looking from the front of the car the front vacuum port is hooked to the timed vacuum port on the carburetor and I have the rear vacuum port on the distributor hooked to manifold vacuum. I tried both ways and this combination seems to work best.

Right now I have # 57 Jets in it, a # 28 squirter and a pink pump cam adjusted at 0.015 clearance warmed up at idle. I had 13.5 to 14 inches of vacuum at idle with my son in the car holding the brake with the car in park so I have a #65 power valve in her. It's close but still a little hesitant @ 3,500+ rpm and full throttle sometimes. Either I need to back the jetting down just a touch or advance the timing a little. It already starts a little hard from the timing being advanced so I'll probably jet it down a bit if the plugs indicate a rich condition. Since I generally don't dog on her anyways she run's fine the way she is for me but it could be a bit better. I love it though no more chugging and almost dying at idle like with the OEM carburetor smooth as glass at 800 rpm in gear. It's also a lot quieter now at idle and cruising speeds even with an open header unless your really into the throttle.

[2oodoor]

this is great, Im glad you posted your set up too..
idle smooth is a good thing, if you havn't already done it I would try taking the distributor out and taking it apart to clean and lube up the centrifigal advance parts.
Is your cam belt timing set up at TDC on the barely visable T scribe on the flywheel or one of the painted marks?

[apache07x]

Well Roodoo. My name is Steve BTW. I have it set on the mark before the T. The service manual I looked at said to set it up there for an automatic and it has made a huge difference. Before it was spark knocking really bad and in town on pump gas was getting 16 mpg. Now it has no spark knock and getting 21 mpg in town on pump gas. It is also pretty "peppy", for lack of a better term, since I hooked both distributor vacuum lines up correctly. Probably could use a different pump cam. But the pink one is really close. It has good response off the bottom end but seems to be a little fat/hesitant between 3500 to 4500 rpms when it warms up. Anxious to see what the highway mileage is. May have to take a little joy ride this weekend and find out? Yes the idle is smooth as glass even in gear at 700 RPMs!!!!! No more spitting and sputtering and carrying on like before the conversion. Heck it wouldn't even idle out of gear at 700 before I converted it. Before it was idling at 1100 in gear and 1400 in park and was spitting and sputtering the whole time.

[2oodoor]

Steve I wonder if that 3500 guff is the power valve transition fore or aft main jet flow. Does that carb have a port for vacuum to the power valve circut on the outside? Probably a dumb question but it seems like Ive run across that somewhere on another type of carb perhaps.

The advance came to mind too is why I mentioned cleaning it. Ive never read where you set up the cam timing two different ways depending upon transmission. Which mark is that, red, green, white...lol Also 3500 4500 rpm you should not see too much with that set up driving normal.

bet that things sounds like a beast, how is your transmission shifing doing, I assume you had to fiddle with the TV cable to suit your foot positioning?

[apache07x]

Steve I wonder if that 3500 guff is the power valve transition fore or aft main jet flow. Does that carb have a port for vacuum to the power valve circut on the outside? Probably a dumb question but it seems like Ive run across that somewhere on another type of carb perhaps.

The advance came to mind too is why I mentioned cleaning it. Ive never read where you set up the cam timing two different ways depending upon transmission. Which mark is that, red, green, white...lol Also 3500 4500 rpm you should not see too much with that set up driving normal.

bet that things sounds like a beast, how is your transmission shifing doing, I assume you had to fiddle with the TV cable to suit your foot positioning?

Roodoo No the power valve vacuum is internal and you know when it's kicking in. It comes in so hard it almost seems like a 4 barrel opening up...lol But that is a transition area for the carb and maybe it's too much fuel when it's warmed up? Maybe I'll try a blue cam again? I was trying to get away from the 50cc pump. But yeah I'm not much worried about it in the 3500 to 4500 range only time it sees that is if I'm pulling out in front of someone or showing the little punk kid next to me that thinks his car is hot stuff.....that his car really isn't too hot and leave him sitting scratching his head at the light.

It did seem odd to me why an automatic would be timed differently than a manual? Only thing I can figure is that the way the timing marker bolts to the different flywheel. This is a link to where I found the service manual online http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html and if you download the ZIP file for the engine section it's on picture 6-16. It says to set it right on the T for a manual and the mark before TDC for an automatic? I have no idea why but it works on my car?


Man it sounds sweet. My fiance took it yesterday from work. We switched accords after lunch. First time I heard it take off running correctly with the header on it and it sounds really, really good. Driving down the road it's actually quite in the cabin unless you hammer down on it. But I would never do that....

Didn't have to do anything to the TV cable and it shifts perfect. Just dumb luck there as I have no idea where that cable is on my car. It doesn't hook to the carb like it does some so I'm glad it shifts good since I was tired of letting off of the gas all the time to shift with the OEM carburetor.

[2oodoor]

That's cool, hammer down and listen to the old school howl !

You're lucky if the TV cable wound up close with all the different configurations, mine are quite sensative usually with the webers. You want it so it does stay in lock up at around 60 and not keep coming out of it with no real changes in throttle position. And you want it to downshift upon a toggle of the throttle, but not too early or two gears down.
I don't know if it would be the accel pump at that high rpm. How is it with the bowl, does is slosh back since it is on the front wheel drive? An issue the the webers if you sling the car it can die out momentarlly. That is why I was so interested in the Holley Avenger series.
You do good work!

[lostforawhile]

I really cant imagine that type of holley having any reasonable daily drivability.
good luck!

The issues you have to consider are all the circuits in that carb. The accelerator pump for one, squirts a massive amount of fuel in initially at off idle throttle. Then you're jetting , float level choices and power valve. A lot of gas metering there to be able to make work for any kind of economy or even consistant good drivability in all weather.

Full race, absolutley that carb can do the job just fine im sure. At least that carb is tunable and if you use some of the good Holley aftermarket support items like fancy metering blocks and power valve protectors, venturi booster selections, you may run into some good luck with mixed driving who knows....
Good work though!

he should be able to change the accelerator pump for less fuel, as far as the stutter, you said you had both hoses hooked up at the dizzy? the only one you need is the advance, the other diaphragm retards the timing on start up, this makes it easier to start the car, if both are hooked to vacuum, it could be doing strange things to your timing, on my setup, i used an extra self venting solenoid from the control box, it only allows vacuum to the retard diaphragm while the starter is cranking the engine