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Thread: Finally decided I'm going all motor

  1. #1
    LXi User 88lxi-shortram's Avatar
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    Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Like the title says I've decided to build the old a20 all motor but I want some opinions on sizes etc. So here it goes. I plan on boring the block out for some gsr pistons. I need what size I need to bore to. Also I plan on getting a new head with port and polish and oversized valves. I know others have done oversized valves and such and wanted to know what sizes to get done. I'll be using a edelbrock victor x intake manifold and a full 2.5 custom exhaust mated to some pacesetters. Maybe megasquirt as well but I need to Learn more about the concept of it. So if anyone has any reccomendations, advice, and experience just throw it in. I'm open right now and want to get my shopping list together before I start tearing down and building. Thx ahead of time guys.
    88 lxi:
    shortram, msd blaster 2 coil, lowered 2.5" in the rear 3" in the front, stripped because race car XD



  2. #2
    LXi User RAZR's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    If you go with the bisimoto springs, cam, and cam gear you can make some pretty good numbers with just those parts.

  3. #3

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    First I would do what RAZR said.

    I've already picked up the cam gear, and springs from bisi. as for the overbore, ours is 82.7mm and what I think is common is the 83mm bore to the B18 pistons. *which is what I plan to do* if I remember right the biggest anyone might have gone 84mm. *which leaves very little wall if I remember right*

    Also bisi does custom pistons as well. I think it was around 600$ for there's though.
    As for the headers, I don't like the pacesetters personally. I would suggest the OBX, but it seems there are some who have had issues with those as well. As for the intake mani, I'm assuming B16 conversion.

    Plus I would suggest larger injectors, OBD1 Conversion, Port and Polish, and battery relocation so you can put a nice CAI in there.
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by rjudgey
    Well the seats have 3 angle cuts from stock, but the valves only have a single angle backcut , so i'd just get a machinist to back cut the valves and if the stock seats are in good shape just give em a tiny lap with some fine paste and just for a twist or two no more than that! The rest you can do yourself with a dremel and some sanding drums, i would say get some SI valves for the exhaust and have them converted into inlet valves and running a larger size say 32mm and have the seats cut accordingly but if your shop doesn't do P&P sounds like they would do a very bad job of cutting valves and seats.

    If your after a ghetto head job do what i advise with the valves if you can find a lathe you can do this yourself with a grinding stone on the lathe. you can use a marker pen to show how far you want to cut the valve head back to match the valve seat allready cut by honda.

    Then when the valves are done, just get a dremel and some sanding drums then smooth out the inside throat of the ports so that they blend in and match the internal diameter of the valve seats, then with the inlet port mouths all you have to do is shape the outside edge of them so that they open up like little trumpets so that they go all the way outside of the ports on the let manifold this helps reduce gas inversion and also makes it easier for the gas to flow into the ports more efficiently, for the exhaust ports these just need to be made nice and smooth and shiny, and same for the combustion chambers, if ou have some old valves put these in the seats and then use a tungsten small tipped tool and blend in the machined edge around the seats do that there is a smooth transition between the seat and the camber roof any edge here critically effects cylinder filling so it's good to get rid of this, same for any edges around the valves from the walls of the chambers reducing these and smoothing down the extreme edges helps greatly. The reduction in CR ratio is worth the increase in flow which gives you way more power. Make sure your valve guides are in good shape if not get them K lined with bronze sleeves or have new ones fitted but if you do this you'll have to have the seats cut again or they might not seat properly on the valves. hopefully there reasonably tight and you won't have to do this. Then have the head skimmed to make sure it's flat and have .5mm taken off to increase your CR ratio you can go as far as 1mm but you'll only have 1 or 2 more skims left after that. Up to you really. If you really want to have it perfect then just make sure the rest of the inlet ports have all the casting marks removed with the dremel and that the finish is even all round with a swirl like pattern on all the walls in the ports. Make thing is to make sure your very thorough and have a keen eye to detail as well as a steady hand! When finished make sure everything is stripped down and you get it washed out thoroughly and chemical cleaned don't want any dirt or bits of ally floating around inside when you bolt it back together again! Oh one last thing get the head surface skimmed after you done all the work that way you won't damage the surface when you get it back and also you need to de chamfer the edges around the chambers as they'll be razor sharp and will cause detonation in the chambers a good machine shop should do this when they skim the head but a lot of them don't bother.

    Hope this helps my little guide to a ghetto head job!! BTW this if done by yourself well will save you $4-600 and be just as good if not better than equivalent head job from a so called specialist!!

    well i do. What head work will yeild the best gains/most effencent money wise, a port matching or a 3 angle valve job? My local shops dont do P&P and i dont feel like shipping the head off....

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    double post ftl
    Last edited by Tdurr; 04-13-2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: crappy interwebs

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

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    SEi User Strugglebucket's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Since you're fuel injected and doing major headwork, some sort of tunable engine management (megasquirt or obd-1) is going to be mandatory.
    Originally Posted by Justanothermike
    my A20 is not SLOW. ur A20 is slow.

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    that too

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

  8. #8
    LXi User 88lxi-shortram's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Yea thats what I figured but idk much about megasquirt so I need to learn more about it first
    88 lxi:
    shortram, msd blaster 2 coil, lowered 2.5" in the rear 3" in the front, stripped because race car XD

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    3Geez Veteran A18A's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    rjudgeys posts ftw
    Last edited by A18A; 04-14-2011 at 06:30 AM.

  10. #10
    3Geez Veteran AccordEpicenter's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    its alot easier and cheaper to go fast with boost, but if you really must stick NA listen to rich, he is about it when it comes to a20/a18 all motor performance.


    just remember, NA stands for NOT ACCEPTABLE
    429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*

  11. #11
    LX User 1813mdw's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    i wouldn't waste the money on bisi parts. there are 200hp a20s on here w/out using his parts. great bling stuff; but really not needed. its all about getting these things to breath. lots of head work. their are plenty of cam options out there. i do believe i remember someone saying that the a18 springs were stronger

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    ^^ bisi isnt bling sir. Bisi is top of the line R&D stuff. He loves na builds if u havent noticed from his drag cars and wut not. I do plan on using his parts when i have the funds cuz well, they are good. once you get his springs and if u do a p&p u can rev up to 14,000rpm if u think ur block can handle it.

    But id bore + build the block for sure, raise the comp, P&p, bigger valves, bisi springs, a cam designed for the powerband u want, and prob go standalone.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by A18A View Post
    rjudgeys posts ftw
    it was a pm

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

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    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    have you considered trying the Gude head package? they build some serious stuff, if I wasn't already running the dual carb setup I would consider this as a start on an all motor build. http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...e_performance/

  15. #15

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    have you considered trying the Gude head package? they build some serious stuff, if I wasn't already running the dual carb setup I would consider this as a start on an all motor build. http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...e_performance/
    Your welcome
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  16. #16
    LXi User 88lxi-shortram's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Lol for 1450 no I havent... Im not trying to push 200+ or anything I jus want a nice mild but respectable DD. I was thinking more like 150 to 160 would be great for what I'm looking for. My budget is somewhere around 1000 to 1500 and this will be done slowly over time. I'm still lost as far as what I want to run programming wise. I don't know all my options and the ones I do know about I know very little on what I need how to do it etc. But that's why I started this early so I have time go gather funds, make full plans and execute nicely. Of course I'll be doing the 5 swap with it but as of know planning is a huge step. Im starting to tear down tomorrow and then I'll begin cleaning the block, selling my old head to someone who knows how to do the thread inserts and needs a head. Then I'm going to buy a brand new one and build it fresh. Also going to do suspension as well. But that's another story another day.
    88 lxi:
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    3Geez Veteran Pico's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    have you considered trying the Gude head package? they build some serious stuff, if I wasn't already running the dual carb setup I would consider this as a start on an all motor build. http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...e_performance/
    why do they show a dual cam setup in the picture?

  18. #18
    LX User 1813mdw's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdurr View Post
    ^^ bisi isnt bling sir. Bisi is top of the line R&D stuff. He loves na builds if u havent noticed from his drag cars and wut not. I do plan on using his parts when i have the funds cuz well, they are good. once you get his springs and if u do a p&p u can rev up to 14,000rpm if u think ur block can handle it.

    But id bore + build the block for sure, raise the comp, P&p, bigger valves, bisi springs, a cam designed for the powerband u want, and prob go standalone.
    still way to costly; and i doubt 88lxishortram is looking to run his motor at 14k rpm. bisi has great shit but it is not needed unless goin all out track. other than that it's just bling to brag about imo

  19. #19
    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Pico View Post
    why do they show a dual cam setup in the picture?
    thats a good question, unless there are two different cams and it's a mistake in the picture, as far as the bisi stuff, a good set of springs and a cam are a good base to build from, a set of their springs are cheaper then replacing the factory springs with OEM ones, and if you build a motor, do you really want a set of springs with over 100000 miles on them? they wear out,no matter who makes them, as they wear they get weaker, they have a finite life, they may still work but not like a new set
    Last edited by lostforawhile; 04-14-2011 at 07:35 PM.

  20. #20
    LXi User 88lxi-shortram's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    The only bisi stuff I would buy is the gear springs and cam... Maybe not the gear buti like the adjustability and the sext bright orange o and if you guys don't mind throwing around some program ideas and concepts that would be great. Cheaper is better but I want dependable and worth working with but just throw some idea around if Yal can
    Last edited by 88lxi-shortram; 04-14-2011 at 07:32 PM.
    88 lxi:
    shortram, msd blaster 2 coil, lowered 2.5" in the rear 3" in the front, stripped because race car XD

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    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by 88lxi-shortram View Post
    The only bisi stuff I would buy is the gear springs and cam... Maybe not the gear buti like the adjustability and the sext bright orange o and if you guys don't mind throwing around some program ideas and concepts that would be great. Cheaper is better but I want dependable and worth working with but just throw some idea around if Yal can
    I still think the gude set is worth the money, that includes all the head work, the cam matched to it, reprogrammed ecu, the entire package, it would be hard to have that kind of head work done for the money, let alone a full setup, i'll be following this thread as I'm doing all motor too

  22. #22
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    honstly just a solid stock rebuild and possibly a small +10 bore over and head work and u can hit the 150mark with a tune imo. the biggest prob with our cars as far as i know is the head flow.

    and if u think $1500 is too much then u just wanna do a cam, I/H/E, and a tune then. cheapest non expensive "build" as long as u have good compression.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAH View Post
    pullin up turbo spoolin fast lookin fly like a 3g like a 3g like a 3g

  23. #23
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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    if you are going to build a wicked NA motor, decide what you want now before you even get the tools out.
    big hp in a 2 liter NA motor without variable valve timing = pig to drive anywhere bar the highway or race track.
    with an a20 i'd aim at 150 whp which should be obtainable on a good standard rebuild with a minor comp increase,mild cam and good exhaust.
    using a good ecu will make it much nicer to tune and drive as well.

  24. #24

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    thats a good question, unless there are two different cams and it's a mistake in the picture, as far as the bisi stuff, a good set of springs and a cam are a good base to build from, a set of their springs are cheaper then replacing the factory springs with OEM ones, and if you build a motor, do you really want a set of springs with over 100000 miles on them? they wear out,no matter who makes them, as they wear they get weaker, they have a finite life, they may still work but not like a new set
    http://www.gude.com/Head/hp.htm#accord

    Its just a default picture. its the only one I bet andy's could find since its the only one on the gude website. :P
    Yea for photoshop...No license plate. :3


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  25. #25

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    Re: Finally decided I'm going all motor

    This thread fell flat on it's face as it went from "all out" to, I want a dd and I only have a small budget.

    Also, the head would crack long before it reached 14k rpm
    Andrew.

    My hatch build thread(started in winter of 07).

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