idling issue, hot engine (Weber)

[TotaledTL]

'88 4AT LX, less than 3K mi. on reworked eng. I recently installed a Weber 32/36. Runs ok but I have a persistent problem w/ the idle. When the engine is hot (eng. running for some time, approx. 85 degrees & up ambient temp.) the idle will drop off from around 800 rpm to below 500. This only occurs when it's in gear in hot weather, such as at stop lights. Shift into N or P & it goes away. The idle speed screw has no effect when this happens. Tried engaging the emer. brake & releasing the brake pedal to see if there is a leak in the power brk. booster but no change so that's not it.

It's worth noting the damn $^%& thing also did this w/ the stock carb & all that vacuum crap on it! It's really, really annoying.... & I can't help but think it's something simple...has anybody else experienced this &/or have any suggestions?

On a positive note I found someone parting out an SE-i w/ the same color interior. Harvested the cupholder/cubbyhole assy. & the console/armrest. The armrest pad & foam are totally shot but I can get that fixed.

[TotaledTL]

Nobody- ?

[Dr_Snooz]

When was your last tune up? What kind of gas you using?

[TotaledTL]

Plugs, wires, rotor, cap, timing belt, wp, all repl. approx. 3k mi. ago when eng. was replaced. Plugs replaced again after the flooding issue I had. Reg. 87 oct. gas used.

[2oodoor]

check out the vacuum advance if your even using it, I had one do that and it was intermitantly leakng at the vac can there on the distributor.
What idle jet sizes are you using btw. What is the set up as in how many turns from the bottom of the air adjustment till it has best idle? did you set the thottle stop screw to just barely touch the tab it pushes on to increase and then set the air adjustement, then check timing then reset air adjustment and thottole stop again?
You think it is flooding or just bad mix for idle?

[TotaledTL]

check out the vacuum advance if your even using it, I had one do that and it was intermitantly leakng at the vac can there on the distributor.
What idle jet sizes are you using btw. What is the set up as in how many turns from the bottom of the air adjustment till it has best idle? did you set the thottle stop screw to just barely touch the tab it pushes on to increase and then set the air adjustement, then check timing then reset air adjustment and thottole stop again?
You think it is flooding or just bad mix for idle?

I was thinking of trying a new vac. adv. unit next. Yes I am using it. Was using only 1 port to manifold vac. & not the cold start one. I connected both of them to manifold vac. 2 - 3 days ago & thought it was cured but it did it again.

I have the jet sizes at home, will post those & the screw adjustments. The jets are whatever came in it (K728 kit, stock motor). I had someone helping me w/ the timing because I can't really tell what I'm looking at with the timing light. It runs pretty good other than this. It's not flooding when this occurs. When it starts doing it I can set the emerg. brake, put it in gear (hood up), & it will sit there and idle really low, w/out dying.

Do you know an ideal timing setting for this arrangement? Thanks for the replies.

[2oodoor]

I was thinking of trying a new vac. adv. unit next. Yes I am using it. Was using only 1 port to manifold vac. & not the cold start one. I connected both of them to manifold vac. 2 - 3 days ago & thought it was cured but it did it again.

I have the jet sizes at home, will post those & the screw adjustments. The jets are whatever came in it (K728 kit, stock motor). I had someone helping me w/ the timing because I can't really tell what I'm looking at with the timing light. It runs pretty good other than this. It's not flooding when this occurs. When it starts doing it I can set the emerg. brake, put it in gear (hood up), & it will sit there and idle really low, w/out dying.

Do you know an ideal timing setting for this arrangement? Thanks for the replies.

I wouldn't use both advance ports just one.
I rarely look at where I have mine at but I do set it to 15 and slowly advance it from there makeing sure there is no preignition pinging at any driving condition. Once that is done then the best idle procedure that redline brochure says needs to be done again for optimal performance.

Try just not using vac advance and adjust things up and see if it isn't consistant then, that should tell you for sure. Ive run them both ways and it's fine just lose a little mpg.

[TotaledTL]

... makeing sure there is no preignition pinging at any driving condition...

I know what pinging sounds like but I'm not sure that just relying on being able to hear it is good enough. Is there another way?

Do the idle jets that come installed typically need to be changed?

[TotaledTL]

Primary idle jet: 60

Sec. idle jet: 50

Didn't count screw turns yet- It's hot & I'm tired...

[2oodoor]

yes that is standard jetting for the kit, you may want to pick up some 55, 52, 65. REason for that is it seems like ambient outside temperature affects these things so it helps to have up sizes to smooth things out during the year. Heck it only takes a few minutes to change them out and no disassembly is required.
Yes it is hot, sux I have no ac in the cars so I seldom drive them once it gets this hot. Work gets postponed on the cars...

[Dr_Snooz]

When I bought my Edelbrock carb for my truck, I spent months dialing in the proper jetting and metering rods and step up springs and accelerator pump, etc. etc. etc. I'd make a change, then go drive. Make another change, then go drive. When I got it reasonably right, I'd make a change and then drive for a couple weeks. Then make another change. Drive another couple weeks and change back. I've got it about as good as can be. Of course, now it's summer and the gas is different, so that's all out the window. But my smog checks are in February, so I'm sticking with the winter settings. LOL

[TotaledTL]

yes that is standard jetting for the kit, you may want to pick up some 55, 52, 65. REason for that is it seems like ambient outside temperature affects these things so it helps to have up sizes to smooth things out during the year. Heck it only takes a few minutes to change them out and no disassembly is required.
Yes it is hot, sux I have no ac in the cars so I seldom drive them once it gets this hot. Work gets postponed on the cars...

Thanks, my AC doesn't work either. Still haven't counted screw turns yet. I made a change in my rolling stock this wk. end, trading a Nissan truck for a Jeep Wrangler so I'm kinda distracted from the 'ol Accord for right now. Also think I might need a bump up in the main jet size as I took it out on the interstate & it seemed to just top out too early, as if it wasn't getting enough fuel. Was going over 90 mph so it's not really a huge concern since I don't drive that way anyhow, just wanted to see what would happen.

Finally used another suggestion I read on here about spraying silicone spray down inside the window tracks & it worked great! My window had slowed to a crawl when putting it up but now it rocks! If all I need to do is spray some of that in it periodically then I'm not going to bother taking the door apart. I hadn't tried it because I was really skeptical that it would help but it did. Thanks to the members of this board for your ideas.

[Dr_Snooz]

Finally used another suggestion I read on here about spraying silicone spray down inside the window tracks & it worked great! My window had slowed to a crawl when putting it up but now it rocks! If all I need to do is spray some of that in it periodically then I'm not going to bother taking the door apart. I hadn't tried it because I was really skeptical that it would help but it did. Thanks to the members of this board for your ideas.

Glad it worked well for you. When it stops working, you'll need a new regulator.

[2oodoor]

Was going over 90 mph so it's not really a huge concern since I don't drive that way anyhow, just wanted to see what would happen.

may want to check that the throttle is actually pulling fully open with the pedal mashed, sometimes some work is needed at the cable to carb to get the best movement of the throttle.

[POS carb]

1st check the fluid level in the transmission, sounds like the converter is loading up at a low rpm, you may just want to put some new fluid in it anyway.
other than that I would suspect an issue with the float level or an excessive pressure buildup in the fuel tank

[TotaledTL]

Haven't followed up because this car has been out of commission for nearly 2 months. It would do nothing but flood. After getting it to my mechanic it alternates betw. flooding and starving for fuel. Both fuel filters were replaced, the needle & seat were replaced in the new Weber I put on it. The float level has been checked. We've tried 2 fuel press. regulators & a new fuel pump. The fuel line betw. the pump & regulator was temporarily bypassed to rule it out. No change.

At this pt. I'm about ready to just scrap it. I really, really don't want to do this; I've got a considerable sum in it. Replaced engine, new wp, timing belt, hoses, belts, motor mounts, plugs, wires, dist. cap, rotor, battery, rear drums/cylinders/pads/hardware, etc. The body is decent with very little rust & the interior is in great shape. But it's worthless as is since it's undriveable. It would be a miracle if some member on here w/ Weber experience lives close enough to consider looking at it. I'm disguested with it & the mech. cannot figure it out & has given up.

So- if anybody lives in the Louisville, KY area & can offer anything, thanks in advance.

[TotaledTL]

Update:

Found a 2nd mechanic who works mostly on VWs. He discovered a faulty float. When placed in a jar of gas one side partially sinks so it must have a leak in it. It was brass if that makes any difference. So I wasted $ on regulators, carb kit, & a fuel pump.

[2oodoor]

so does it run smoother now?

put some larger idle jets in my DGS and it worked wonders for the in drive idle quality

[TotaledTL]

Well it wouldn't run at all because of flooding.

Haven't driven it yet enough to tell, & it's cooled off- wasn't sure if it was heat related.
What size idle jets did you use? Is that carb abt. the same as a DGEV? Is your eng. stock?

[TotaledTL]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I was just glad it was running again so I could use it rather than sitting & going downhill-

It's been running pretty good & hasn't repeated the idle drop I described in the orig. post of this thread. The most annoying thing I experience w/ it is the idle variances that occur under normal, varying circumstances. I. e., I often use the rr defroster, lights, & blower now that it's winter & those loads will cause the idle to drop considerably, esp. if I'm at a stop w/ the brake lights on also. I realize that is prob. normal but the OEM setup could compensate for those things. When the idle drops it also vibrates quite a bit, including through the steering wheel. I read somewhere on here it could be exacerbated by the use of an aftermarket rr motor mount, which is what was used on mine. I've also wondered if installing a higher capacity alternator would help- anybody tried that? The only thing I know to overcome this is to set the idle to around 1100-1200 rpm (in park).

Another reason I wanted to follow up is that I found my note on the installed carb jet sizes. They are:

Primary main jet- 140
Sec. main jet- 140

Primary air corr. jet- 170
Sec. air corr. jet- 160

Primary idle jet- 60
Sec. idle jet- 50

Any commets or suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

[2oodoor]

Beef up the grounds and ensure tight connections up at the battery.
Once the car is warmed up you shouldnt need Rear defroster or even high speed fan for that matter??
I wouldnt doubt a so so altenator would make it drop some, but without actually looking at amp draw with a probe, at each load as it comes on, it would be only guessing.
Increasing your idle jet sizes in small increments may be an idea, I know on my 38, which is a bit different, increasing idle jet made a baby smooth idle but a lil on the rich side.
In cold weather, especially like it is now warm and cold in the same day, the weber gives a little greif. I would have to tweak the thumb screw mixtures a tiny bit to smooth out the idle.
I would really want to run a manual choke on a 32/36; around here since it can tweak the mix from inside the car as well as kick up the idle a hair. You don't have to run full choke with a manual choke, you can pull it just a little to close it up some and in turn kick up the fast idle mechanism.

btw I posted a really hot little set up for jetting on that thread a while back.. for a bone stock engine it was amazing, but the dual squirt pump jet was only tested on a manual tranny, an auto may respond differently.

[TotaledTL]

Depending on the weather, once the rear window is clear, I still have to use the defroster at times to keep it clear. I seldom use the fan on high but notice an increase in the load whenver it's switched on, regardless of the speed.

Battery is relatively new w/ clean & tight connections.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't a 32/36 use only the primary idle jet for it's fuel supply when idling? Does an increase above the present size 60 sound like a good idea?

Not sure what hot set up for jetting you refer to, or which thread?

[CzEcHy]

He must be referring to the "post Weber jets size" thread stickied at the top of this section.

[TotaledTL]

Nobody else w/ any insight?

Maybe everybody is too busy shopping/family, etc.-

[2oodoor]

... back to a basic thing here again.
Get in a comfortable position over your carb and count the number of full turns (like a analog clock find an imaginary 12 oclock index position) the mixture screw goes in before it bump stops. Do not use any pressure at that end because it will damage the inner tip of that screw which is actually a jet of sorts too.
More than 2.5 turns and you need larger idle jet.
Also it is helpfull to pull the idle jets out and clean them with some good spray. Do not use a metal like torch cleaner on them though as the slightest burr or malformity affects the jet. Ive seen quite a few defective idle jets from that or either just plain bad castings for lack a better description.

If like I mentioned before you have BIG differences in how the car runs when the outside temps change then you likely need idle jet size changes. Small differences are compensated with a slight mixture screw adjustment.

The initial circuit is idle (when throttle plates are closed). As you depress the gas pedal, the throttle plates open on the primary side, transition holes (located just above the throttle plate) allow additional fuel to enter the cylinders. As you continue to depress the gas pedal, you enter into the main circuit on the primary side. At around 2/3 pedal depression, the secondary side enters transition (this is controlled by the secondary idle jet). As you continue to depress the gas pedal, you enter into the main circuit on the secondary side.