Front Wheel Bearing Q

[DBMaster]

I've read enough on here to know that I should either use a machine shop to R&R the bearing in the steering knuckle, or just let my mechanic do it. I have been hearing some noise in the front that is tell-tale for a bearing. I found a very small amount of play in the passenger side bearing, but none on the driver's side.

So, here's my question. I was going to ask my mechanic but figured I might ask here first. If only one of the bearings appears to be worn should I replace only that one, or is this the kind of item best replaced in pairs? I don't exactly have money burning a hole in my pocket these days. My employer just cut everybody's pay 6% for the remainder of the year and my daughter just started college.

The noise is not that bad, but annoying to me, so I want to deal with it now before it gets worse.

Thanks!

Mike

[sb_hbackDX]

Well...if you are allotted sufficient downtime to remove all the suspension components for both sides(daily driver??) and have some dough to buy the parts/services, then YES replace both...otherwise just fix as you go man...

I'm one of those "if it aint broke dont fix it" guys but preferably parts like this i do often replace in pairs, just like brake shoes/pads...only problem is replacing the front bearings is not as simple, i'd replace both for peace of mind...

Couple years back...My hatch started making a slight grinding noise which was being emitted from my front driver side tire. I knew what it was but college made me procrastinate...eventually the noise became louder and louder, then the wheel had stupid amounts of play. When i finally disassembled everything and brought the knuckle to the machine shop to press the bearing out...haha yea..lets just say it was practically "welded" in from the heat and friction. It had to be cut out...not fun, so get it done ASAP..

[DBMaster]

I located a machine shop to R&R the bearing and ordered the parts. Since my mechanic said that he uses Koyo bearings (claimed that was the OEM brand) I bought that brand - along with an outer axle seal and a new axle nut (cheap). I decided to do only one side for now. The driver's side has no play at all so I'll just keep an eye on it. It's just about the only thing I haven't replaced in the front end in the 22 years I've had the car so it should be interesting.

[Dr_Snooz]

There's really only two reasons for replacing them in pairs.

1. The other bearing will start making noise here very soon. But it will wait until you've forgotten all the tricks you used to get the first knuckle out and put all your special tools back in storage.

2. Getting the knuckle down to the machine shop can be a hardship if you have only one car. If you have to make special arrangements for transportation to the shop, then it makes sense to do both at the same time.

The only strong recommendation I have is to replace all your lug nuts and your lower ball joints when you have the knuckles out. It's an awful lot of work to remove a knuckle and you don't want to do it more than you have to.

[BB_cuda]

Dr. Snooz, i'm confused about you saying he should be replacing lug nuts. Did you mean he should replace the wheel studs?

I'm actually needing advice on how to remove the hub to inpsect the bearings. Unforetunately, my spindles are already off the car. I had seen something from Eric the car guy about using a slide hammer if they were still on the car. I am not hearing any bearing noise. I had read somewhere else if the car had more than 150k miles that one should consider changing them. My car has 209,000 on it. thanks

[DBMaster]

I did not replace anything other than my wheel bearings. I used the same hubs with the same lugs in them. Of course, I have had the luxury of owning the car since 1989. I rotate my tires at home with two floor jacks and every time I made sure the lug threads were clean. I also keep them lubed to prevent seizing and I use a torque wrench to tighten the nuts. I have never had a broken stud. My lower ball joints had been replaced years earlier with TRW parts and they were in good shape, as confirmed by my mechanic who installed the new bearings in the knuckles.

The doctor is correct about replacing them in pairs, though. Even though it was my P/S bearing that had play in it, it was the D/S bearing that was the source of the noise I heard. So, in the end, I replaced both of them.

[Dr_Snooz]

Dr. Snooz, i'm confused about you saying he should be replacing lug nuts. Did you mean he should replace the wheel studs?

You're right. Sorry. I get "nuts" and "bolts" confused a lot. You want to replace the studs because if you don't and they break, you'll be taking it all back apart again.

I'm actually needing advice on how to remove the hub to inpsect the bearings. Unforetunately, my spindles are already off the car. I had seen something from Eric the car guy about using a slide hammer if they were still on the car. I am not hearing any bearing noise. I had read somewhere else if the car had more than 150k miles that one should consider changing them. My car has 209,000 on it. thanks

It takes a lot of work to get spindles out, so you want to replace all the wear items you can while you have them off. Replace wheel bearings, seals, lower ball joints and lug studs. It's probably also a good idea to pull out the lower control arm. Lube the pivot bolts with grease or anti-seize, because if they corrode and seize, you'll be in hell trying to get them out later. We have guys using cutting torches, grinders and sawzalls on them. Getting them out that way always entails a lot of collateral damage. Also replace the lower control arm bushing. If you can't afford all that, then just replace what shows signs of wear and plan on pulling it apart again at a later date.

I'm not as careful as DBMaster, so I ended up breaking off a lug stud. If I want to fix it, I'll have to press out the wheel bearing to do it. That's why I say replace the lug studs. This is a California car, so there's no rust or corrosion and I always use a torque wrench, so they haven't been overtorqued. It surprised me no end when it sheared off. It gave no hint of being a problem prior. All of a sudden, I had a broken lug stud (my first ever). It's just cheap insurance to replace them. I'm convinced that these studs are wimpier than the studs on other cars.

@DBMaster: I'd say be careful mounting your wheels when you do your rotations. Dropping the wheels on the studs can bend the threads and you'll have a broken stud before you know it. I'm kind of a weakling though, so maybe that's just my problem.

[DBMaster]

Doc, you are a weakling? I never would have figured that. My wheels are aftermarket so the metal is softer than the studs, though, I never drop them.

I did not find it difficult to remove the steering knuckles. In fact, I believe it took me less than 30 minutes for removal and about the same to reinstall. You're right about the lower control arms. I have kept a thin film of grease on the fork bolts and thus have been able to avoid major surgery. The bushings on mine are looking a bit "squished" right now so I can foresee replacing the arms in the future. Just not now because I am tapped out!

[BB_cuda]

Fair enough. It sounds like you guys recommend to change things while i have it apart to avoid another spindle removal. Enough on this as i had already planned changing both bushings on the LCA, a new lower ball joint, new upper control arm along with new bushings for it. New radius arm bushings (i call it the strut rod but using Honda propaganda name).

Please comment on this. How do I get the hub off of the spindle assy? The spindles are off the car awaiting lower ball joint removal. thanks

[DBMaster]

I took mine to my mechanic and paid him $20 each to do it with a hydraulic press. Snooz used a hammer and punch on his. There was a lot of discussion about that! Taking them to a machine shop seems like the easiest way to me.

If you got the upper arm bushings with the arms how much did you pay? I did that myself in 2008. Got the whole she-bang on eBay for about $90. The bushings made so much noise they drove me crazy and I reinstalled them about three times with no success. Ultimately, I ordered Moog bushing sets for $55 a side. Then, less than two years later, the upper ball joints were shot. OEM's last for ten years plus, aftermarkets do not. I guess that's why if you go OEM it costs you $200 in parts. I was lucky. I got Moog UCA's on clearance from Rock Auto for about $40 each.

Let me know how they work out for you. I would also say it is much easier to just buy new LCA's that already have the bushings installed in them. They sell those on Rock Auto, too.

[BB_cuda]

DB,
Q1)So the machine shop pressed out the hubs AND changed the bearings? Q2)Or did they press out the hubs and you changed the bearings? Q3)Does the hub have to be pressed back in? this seems logical.

I'm using Moog parts for upper control arms, OEM upper bushings, Moog lower ball joints, Prothane lower bushings (yes that is polyurethane). Q4)Why did it take three times before you got the upper control arms on right? Not being critical, as i could easily mess up too. Q5)What was your lesson learned?

Let's see i have rattled off 5 questions. Please try to answer all if you can.

[DBMaster]

BB, glad you asked. The hubs had to be pressed out along with the bearings and then both had to be pressed back in. I was not about to start pounding - too much work.

The best grease I found to use for the UCA bushings was multipurpose molybdenum grease. Wheel bearing grease is too thick and white lithium grease is too thin. the shop manual says to torque the big bolt through those bushings to 40ft-lb, but I found that if I did that they were too tight and made noise. The nuts are self locking so they are not going to back off and get lost. I used trial-and-error to determine how tight to make mine. You raise the car, adjust, and then lower it and bounce it to see if they creak. It is a true pain in the butt. If they are quiet in the winter they may not be so in the summer or vice-versa. The OEM bushings use a bronze friction surface and the aftermarket ones use something harder which makes it impossible to quiet them down. Any little creaking sounds awful inside the car because the body sheet metal seems to amplify it. I drove around for two years with one kind of noise or another. I still occasionally have to tweak the torque on that long bolt if the season changes and the temperature outside alters drastically.

I also went the extra mile and bought new chrome bushing caps and lock nuts from Majestic Honda. I don't know that it made a difference, but I felt better.

[Dr_Snooz]

I use a 4# sledge and a set of 3/4" sockets to seat bearings and bushings now. In a jam I use a drift punch and work around the outside of the bearing. The drift punch is more prone to mar the edges of soft bushings, but I've seated numerous bearings and bushings this way and they work great. It's much better than dragging all your stuff to a shop to have it done. My last go round with Pep Boys' press was such a fiasco that I could use dynamite and do less damage than they did.

[BB_cuda]

Okay, mission accomplished. two new Timken bearings installed. The shop offered to do each side for $30 including pressing out the old lower ball joint and installing the new ball joint. I used Moog joints. The old bearings stuck to the hub when they used a slide hammer to remove them. They wanted to press the hubs off but the stupid brake dust shields were too much of a hassle to press hubs. Why owe why are shields not removable unless the hubs are first pulled. The small portion of the shield that goes around the area where the caliper bracket doesn't even do anything. The mechanic was a good sport. Pressing the hubs back on was easier even with the shields re installed.

Rock Auto delivered today. For whatever dumb reason, i got two Moog ball joints one from Japan with a black boot and one from USA with a nicer blue boot. The rock auto picture showed that they both should have had blue boots. Owe well, for $28.95 each i can't complain compared to Oreilly wanting $45 each. The upper control arms are next with bushing installation to be done.

I'm staging all my parts as it will be another week before i get the energy suspension and prothane bushings. I will have the lower control arm bushings pressed out early too. Out

[DBMaster]

Oh, those dust shields! When I put my D/S back together I did not drive the car until the next day, which meant a 20 mile commute to the office. The shield was rubbing the rotor slightly - want to talk about flimsy! The noise was horrible, like 100 fingers on a chalk board. Just a little tweaking and it was fine, but check that when you reassemble because there is very little clearance between those two parts when they are straight.