Project "RACETEK" resurrection

[mykwikcoupe]

So I finally took possession of the old 86 Racetek hatch this weekend. The brief history of it for those who haven't been around as long as some. An older long passed member of the community put a b16A2 into an 86 hatch and proceeded to sell it off to another member that I got it from. Anyways Ill merge the threads later possibly.

Id like to start off by saying that whatever happened to this car or whoever did it really should not be working on cars. I find great assets in the community not only in knowledge but on quality high end purpose built parts (thanks LX-incredible, Cygnus, Rob, Justin86 and many others). Whoever took part in the modification in the wiring of this car has NO part touching any electrical from this point further! There has been some debate as to who did it but I am not pointing fingers and I really dont care.

The 1st issue id like to address is the lack of VTEC. I am going to spend the night reading about the importance of this system and how it works. Until then, if the single wire is hooked up, should it not work? If it does not what would I look for in troubleshooting the problems? The head is a B16A3, stock to my knowledge. the wire is hooked up but I am unsure as to why it isn't working or if the solenoid itself could be bad. Any help?

The next issue in the level of importance is how do you run a rear trunk mounted battery supply conductors (in the most correct fashion) from start to finish? It currently has 1/0 gauge power and ground which is more then adequate. The battery terminals are cheap schucks knock offs but since it is kept inside the cabin has no corrosion or damage showing. I believe the battery power wire should either fused or hooked to a switch (powered via key?) so in case of damage the battery wouldn't run unfused and burn the car to the ground or arch against the body panels until something burns away. It currently runs from the passenger under the main fuse panel (hookups are done with amp distribution kits, unfused again) through the fender lining (if it was in place) and to the rear cabin area in a fashion I hav not fully researched. How would you run it? Through the firewall, under the car and through a rubber drain in the spare tire well?

Another of the many issues this car presents to me is the value or some sort of luxury. I know its supposed to be a purpose built race car of some facet but at the same time presumably normal features like a switched radiator fan, a working starter switch, accessory lights are some of the things i would like to regain in the car. What i have noticed so far, and I offer this up as a question of 'is this the best way to do this?' The stock accord has 2 temp sensors on the thermostat housing, the stock B16A2 has only 1. the fix was to push a piece of stripped wire into the extra sensor electrical connector cause it to be seen as always closed. He is using the red and black wires for the temp gauge and spliced the black and blue with a black tracer through via a piece of wire at the connector. Is this in any way going to effect the way the car runs since it has been supposedly converted to OBD1? I would love to chat with Angus about this stuff but hes a very busy person and Im not sure he has time to help.

He also has a few loose wires near the location of the stock battery. Ill look these up in my manual but maybe someone can give me a little nudge in the right direction. In the large connector by the passenger radiator he has a solid green wire loose by itself, a green with a black tracer by itself, yellow with what seems to be a blue tracer. Any clue what these should go to?

The car is currently running a ballast resistor (I think) for the ignition. the large black with yellow tracer feeds one side of this bohemith and the other side of it feeds the positive side of the external coil. The smaller solid blue wire feeds the other negative side of the coil. I always thought the blue wire was for the tachometer?

As stated before i will ask a moderator as to the best way to post previously posted pics from the forum into this new topic. if they care to help please let me know what i should do. the car was built well before we had mass produced kits and the JDM B20A was basically the best engine swap. I know everyone has their own methods but I am resorting to my own at this junction. thanks for all the great help

[mykwikcoupe]

I will check tomorrow but in my hast of knowledge I may have overlooked something. I believe what is happening in the case of the temp sensors, he is using one of the temp sensor wire set (red/black) to trigger the oil pressure for VTEC engagement, the other sensor that is shorted together is just a bypass for the fan switch possibly. ill look when its light out tomorrow after work.

[MessyHonda]

good luck on getting that lil hatch all together...i remember this car when i went to the dyno

[cygnus x-1]

So I finally took possession of the old 86 Racetek hatch this weekend. The brief history of it for those who haven't been around as long as some. An older long passed member of the community put a b16A2 into an 86 hatch and proceeded to sell it off to another member that I got it from. Anyways Ill merge the threads later possibly.

This car sounds interesting but I don't think I've ever seen the old threads. I'll have to look for them.

Id like to start off by saying that whatever happened to this car or whoever did it really should not be working on cars. I find great assets in the community not only in knowledge but on quality high end purpose built parts (thanks LX-incredible, Cygnus, Rob, Justin86 and many others). Whoever took part in the modification in the wiring of this car has NO part touching any electrical from this point further! There has been some debate as to who did it but I am not pointing fingers and I really dont care.

Thanks for the props man!

The 1st issue id like to address is the lack of VTEC. I am going to spend the night reading about the importance of this system and how it works. Until then, if the single wire is hooked up, should it not work? If it does not what would I look for in troubleshooting the problems? The head is a B16A3, stock to my knowledge. the wire is hooked up but I am unsure as to why it isn't working or if the solenoid itself could be bad. Any help?

My understanding of the VTEC system is pretty limited, but I believe there is a solenoid that opens an oil port to an actuator that engages the extra rocker. I think there is an oil pressure switch too that allows it to activate only when there is enough oil pressure. Since this car seems to have electrical issues in general I would start there and make sure everything is wired up correctly.

The next issue in the level of importance is how do you run a rear trunk mounted battery supply conductors (in the most correct fashion) from start to finish? It currently has 1/0 gauge power and ground which is more then adequate.

That will be more than enough. I actually used heavy duty jumper cable wire (4 ga I think) and it was fine.

The battery terminals are cheap schucks knock offs but since it is kept inside the cabin has no corrosion or damage showing.

Should be ok as long as the connections are tight and there is no corrosion as you said.

I believe the battery power wire should either fused or hooked to a switch (powered via key?) so in case of damage the battery wouldn't run unfused and burn the car to the ground or arch against the body panels until something burns away. It currently runs from the passenger under the main fuse panel (hookups are done with amp distribution kits, unfused again) through the fender lining (if it was in place) and to the rear cabin area in a fashion I hav not fully researched. How would you run it? Through the firewall, under the car and through a rubber drain in the spare tire well?

When I did mine I ran the wire along side the brake lines in the door sill channel. There should *absolutely* be a fuse or breaker on the positive wire right at the battery. For a race vehicle you will probably also be required to have an externally accessible (outside the car) emergency switch to disconnect the battery in case of a crash. Check the rules for your race organization about trunk mounted batteries.

The wire could be run wherever you want really. Inside the cabin will provide some extra protection in case of a crash, but since it's a race car you can put it wherever it's convenient.

Honestly though, after doing the trunk relocation, I decided it was more of a pain than it was worth, so I moved it back to the engine compartment. The difference in weight distribution is negligible and the extra run of wire is another failure point. The power is needed in the engine compartment so why not put the battery there? You can get smaller/lighter batteries if size/weight are a concern. I would recommend some kind of AGM battery, since they're maintenance free, won't leak, and work in any position. Here's one example:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm

Another of the many issues this car presents to me is the value or some sort of luxury. I know its supposed to be a purpose built race car of some facet but at the same time presumably normal features like a switched radiator fan, a working starter switch, accessory lights are some of the things i would like to regain in the car. What i have noticed so far, and I offer this up as a question of 'is this the best way to do this?' The stock accord has 2 temp sensors on the thermostat housing, the stock B16A2 has only 1. the fix was to push a piece of stripped wire into the extra sensor electrical connector cause it to be seen as always closed. He is using the red and black wires for the temp gauge and spliced the black and blue with a black tracer through via a piece of wire at the connector. Is this in any way going to effect the way the car runs since it has been supposedly converted to OBD1? I would love to chat with Angus about this stuff but hes a very busy person and Im not sure he has time to help.

Sounds like maybe you need to trace these back to the ECU and see what pins they connect to. As long as the ECU is only expecting one sensor then no problem. I have no idea what the shorted connector is for though.

He also has a few loose wires near the location of the stock battery. Ill look these up in my manual but maybe someone can give me a little nudge in the right direction. In the large connector by the passenger radiator he has a solid green wire loose by itself, a green with a black tracer by itself, yellow with what seems to be a blue tracer. Any clue what these should go to?

Time to find an electrical schematic. I think Lost or Snooz have these.

The car is currently running a ballast resistor (I think) for the ignition. the large black with yellow tracer feeds one side of this bohemith and the other side of it feeds the positive side of the external coil. The smaller solid blue wire feeds the other negative side of the coil. I always thought the blue wire was for the tachometer?

The blue wire is for the tach, and it does go to the negative side of the coil. The negative side of the coil should also be connected to the ignitor (in the distributor?) somehow. I'm suspicious of the ballast resistor though. I didn't think Hondas used these? Is it an aftermarket coil?

Sounds like a fun project!

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[mykwikcoupe]

an update for today. I only had a few minutes too look things over and this is what Ive found.

The temp sensor i thought was the vtec oil pressure switch isnt the oil pressure sensor. Since the head is a B16A2 it doesnt have the switch and the temp sensor really is a temp sensor

I traced out some wiring in the rear of the car to be old reverse lights I believe so those will be deleted when I have enough time to tear the plastics out, remove the wires and repair any damages caused by the crimp over type splices he used. I will also need to make a run to the local yard and try to find a comparable car to steel missing trim pieces and plugs for.

The sunroof didnt work and i traced that to a blown fuse. the sunroof is aftermarket and the spliced onto the larger wires under the dash that supply the ignition. This may be why nothing else works in the car? The add listing the car for sale originally said the sunroof leaked so this was a good time to lube everything, clean the rails and try to find the leak. The rear drains are run as they would be if it was stock, the drains are up high on the bumpers leaving through factory plugs. the fronts are a different story however. they run down the A pillars and to the front of the car behind the kick panels. they drain into the car in this area and a hole was drilled near the mudflap to allow drainage. i DO NOT like this idea at all. I will have to jack up the car and enlarge this hole so I can route the drain through the newly enlarged hole and become an external drain. I will have to try to find a stock sunroof car and see how they drained the fronts? Anyone ever trace them out?

So far the things that dont work starter when switch is trigger (is currently bypassed and run to a momentary switch

The headlight dont retract or go up

The dash lights dont appear to work either

I checked all the fuses and everything is good.

[mykwikcoupe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx3_BeFDI9U Video of the hatch

http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a96...t=104_2678.flv Video of Hatch running crappy muffler

[Legend_master]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx3_BeFDI9U Video of the hatch

http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a96...t=104_2678.flv Video of Hatch running crappy muffler

As far as the Vtec goes, the system is VERY simple. Do you have any check engine lights(for anything, not just vtec parts), or active codes in the computer?

[mykwikcoupe]

Nope not that show, ill short the ecu tonight

[Legend_master]

Nope not that show, ill short the ecu tonight

Only reason I ask is that the ECU goes into "limp" mode when there is any check engine light. This disables vtec, and a few other things. Really the vtec system consist of 1 signal wire, 1 power wire(vtec solenoid), and 1 ground wire (vtec solenoid). They all run directly to the ECU.

[Rendon LX-i]

what ecu is that b16 on? reason i ask you can disable the VPS and VSC and run it as a one wire vtec. also disable vtec coolant temp. I cant agree any more on what legend said and cygnus. Seems you got a hand full. Just take your time and if you a wire schimatic i can get anything you can think of.

[mykwikcoupe]

OK today's update. This is a fun project but defiantly a hand full. I replaced the combo switch because the existing one had a broken handle and it barely worked or did anything. I put a known good one in only to find out that the right turn signal throw hit the existing top of the hole in the cover. The other problem is the cover wont sit far enough back get the last 2 holes into the column. I guess Ill have to go source another at the yard.

I looked into a few other smaller problems. The sunroof has a minor leak that I can seal on the next warm day since it was raining it was pretty easy to find. Its a loose bulkhead fitting that needs some sealant to divert down to drain tube where it should go. It also looks like it may need a seal but I don't know what brand the sunroof is to order one?

Good call on CEL, I totally forgot about that. Its tossing 2 codes one of which I have no clue about the other is one that thought my car didn't use? The first is code 20. I get 2 long blinks followed by a long blank, I would guess this to be a 0 thus making it 20? The code is listed as electric load detector? WTF is that?

The next one is code 22, 2 long blinks followed by 2 quick blinks. It says its the VTEC pressure solenoid. Isn't that the sensor I don't have because mine is a b16a2 head and they don't have the oil pressure switch? Im going to research them and see what the web has for knowledge.

I got the headlights to go up, but they wont go down. I see the relays, is that one relay for up and one for down or one for left and one for right? Ill read some more on that as well. I do need to pull apart the interior and trace out some of these power wires he has running all over the place. They are usually unfused which I do not like and they are all unlabeled and all the same color. Is this really the best some people can do?

Ill probably post again tomorrow

[mykwikcoupe]

oil level is low 1/2 quart, the solenoid itself is wired, I forgot to apply power to the wire and see if the solenoid clicks. Ill try tomorrow

[Rendon LX-i]

All Vtec have a Vtec pressure which that why I said you can disable it.

[mykwikcoupe]

hopefully tomorrow ill get a chance to tear the seat out and see what he did. hopefully I can follow along with what everyone else did as well.

[Legend_master]

Good call on CEL, I totally forgot about that. Its tossing 2 codes one of which I have no clue about the other is one that thought my car didn't use? The first is code 20. I get 2 long blinks followed by a long blank, I would guess this to be a 0 thus making it 20? The code is listed as electric load detector? WTF is that?

The next one is code 22, 2 long blinks followed by 2 quick blinks. It says its the VTEC pressure solenoid. Isn't that the sensor I don't have because mine is a b16a2 head and they don't have the oil pressure switch? Im going to research them and see what the web has for knowledge.

Well that is you problem there. The long blank spot is to let you know that the next code is coming up. 2 long blink indicate a code 20, each long blink is the 10 decimal point (10,20,30, etc), Each short blink is the 01 decimal point (01,02,03).
You deciphered correctly, and the code 20 ELD(electronic load detector) code was the same problem I had with both my swaps. There is a little unit inside the fuse box of most 1994+ hondas, it's designed to kick the alternator down to lower amps when not needed (saved gas). There are only 2 ways to solve this, you must either put a civic/integra fuse box in your car(which would be a giant pain in the ass). Or do what I did, get the ECU chipped, and eliminate the ELD from the computer software. There are no other tricks to solve this, and you will be unable to use vtec (unless you get a manual vtec controller) until this is solved.
For your code 22 there are some solutions. You must be running an ECU from an engine other then the b16a2. You could add the sensor(may already be there), or eliminate it using a chipped ECU. You could also acquire the proper ECU, but your going to still have the ELD problem, so chipping seems to be your best possibility.

[mykwikcoupe]

the harness I got from Angus had the eld wires installed with it and he also sent a eld box that I added to my fuse box. I have a chipped ecu already but somehow it must have kicked it back. I do have the second temp sensor wiring from the accord, if these go to the ecu I can make that the vtec oilpressure sensor wiring. my b18c has a vtec solenoid with the sensor in it so ill use that. its from a b16a3. thanks for the help. its much appreciated. sounds like an easy fix just need to get into the car and see what's existing.

[Legend_master]

the harness I got from Angus had the eld wires installed with it and he also sent a eld box that I added to my fuse box. I have a chipped ecu already but somehow it must have kicked it back. I do have the second temp sensor wiring from the accord, if these go to the ecu I can make that the vtec oilpressure sensor wiring. my b18c has a vtec solenoid with the sensor in it so ill use that. its from a b16a3. thanks for the help. its much appreciated. sounds like an easy fix just need to get into the car and see what's existing.

No problem, glad I could help. I would love to see how he made that ELD box, I searched forever to find a way to eliminate that without chipping. Everywhere I looked led me to believe there was no workaround for it.

[cygnus x-1]

No problem, glad I could help. I would love to see how he made that ELD box, I searched forever to find a way to eliminate that without chipping. Everywhere I looked led me to believe there was no workaround for it.

Maybe just a resistor? Or possibly the ECU is looking for a certain voltage to indicate what the electrical load is. If it is looking for a voltage you could make a simple voltage divider (with 2 resistors) to create whatever voltage you need from the main +12V.


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[mykwikcoupe]

Im 99% sure he added the wiring for it. The harness he made for me was probably the most intricate one that he has made for anyone on the board. i had wires routed differently then stock and sensors all over the place.

Today's update, I figured out why in the video zack wired up a separate start witch. The plug that controls the ignition wasn't even pluged in? Ive got almost everything in the car working except the sunroof is wired before the ignition so it works without the key, the headlights went up but still wont go down, I still have alot of wiring I feel the car doesnt need and it needs a sunroof visor clip since I managed to break that today.

[Rendon LX-i]

I would honestly just disable it on Crome or w/e you want. It's much more complex to just disable the eld . That's the beauty of having a chip Ecu

[Legend_master]

Im 99% sure he added the wiring for it. The harness he made for me was probably the most intricate one that he has made for anyone on the board. i had wires routed differently then stock and sensors all over the place.

Today's update, I figured out why in the video zack wired up a separate start witch. The plug that controls the ignition wasn't even pluged in? Ive got almost everything in the car working except the sunroof is wired before the ignition so it works without the key, the headlights went up but still wont go down, I still have alot of wiring I feel the car doesnt need and it needs a sunroof visor clip since I managed to break that today.

Damn dude that sounds liek some fucked up wiring. I'm guessing he jsut wanted to completely bypass the stock harness.

I would honestly just disable it on Crome or w/e you want. It's much more complex to just disable the eld . That's the beauty of having a chip Ecu

I disabled by ELD, and o2 sensor that way lol.

[mykwikcoupe]

He said he couldn't get it to start or do anything for that matter which is why he added the push button to start. I'm pretty picky about my electrical systems mostly because I work with them all day, if only I had more confidence in auto electrical skills.

The nice thing is i get to remove 2 more wires from the engine bay now that I solved that problem. When I convert the trunk battery back to an engine bay battery I get to remove more engine bay clutter. He currently has 2 power distribution blocks from an audio system tying all the different engine points together. Its really killing me.

I dont mind modifying the wiring, I just wish I knew how to solder. Alot of the existing plugs are cracking at the connection and id like to be able to take them apart and redo them so they look stock.

On a side not, can anyone confirm the blue and black wire near the passenger side of the radiator is the main fan power. My 89 has 2 fans and this is my 1st 86 so im not sure if the main fan is on the drivers side or passenger side.

I would like to bypass the factory O2 sensor and add a wideband to the ecu instead. this way i don't need to worry about the heated sensor and Id have a much more useful sensor to boot. I can do this right? with ectune or crome?

ultimately the car will be driven with the b16 until I stockpile some more funds. At that time Ill yank the b16 and install my b18c. i need to install my LSD in the S80 trans and get a lighter pressure plate. This one is built for the hydraulic trans and its pretty tough with the hasport conversion. I would also ditch the unsprung clutch for a nice sprung unit.

What is the green wire in the 8 pin plug near the battery?

[mykwikcoupe]

another small project. I located the stock radiator thermocouple wiring and fan wiring. He currently has the fan wired into a on or off setting and it must be done manually. I am not a fan of this to say the least. i would personally like it if it worked as more of a stock controlled system. I'm going to pull the aftermarket radiator and bring it down to my local radiator place and have them add the bung for the stock thermocouple so it will work like a stock setup. this car might be beat and ready to be left but ill do my best to save it while I'm interested.

In looking at the temp sending plugs on the thermostat, one is red and green the other is blue and red i think? Which is the one the ecu needs? One is the real temp the other is a secondary the obd1 wont need. id like to use this second set of wires for the vtec oil pressure. Can someone clear up that these run to the ecu only and do not tie into other wiring? the factory manual i have only lists one sensor. In reading the board it appears as though the green plug is the fan control and the white plug is the TW sensor (ECT sensor that goes to the ecu). is this true? Does the green plug also go tot the ecu?

[Legend_master]

I can't answer all that as I am not a wiring guy myself lol. Soldering is incredibly easy, just takes a little time to make sure it is done properly. As far as the blue and black wire, that is the fan switch. I actually did what he has done, and wire mine up to a switch so I have no clue how to hook it up to the harness. As far as the vtec wire they DO go directly to the ECU, and nothing else. Just make sure to ground the solenoid properly, or it will not actuate.

[cygnus x-1]

I dont mind modifying the wiring, I just wish I knew how to solder. Alot of the existing plugs are cracking at the connection and id like to be able to take them apart and redo them so they look stock.

IMHO splicing wires by soldering is overrated. I used to think that soldered splices were the ONLY way to ensure good connections, but they aren't. Crimping (when done properly) is just as good, and sometimes even better as it allows the connection to flex a bit where there is vibration or movement. Soldered splices can be smaller than crimps, which is nice if it has to fit inside a loom or where space is severely limited. But much of the time there is plenty of room for crimp connectors. The trick with crimp connectors is to 1) make sure you get decent ones, and 2) make sure the crimp is tight enough that the wires don't pull out. Always check your crimps by tugging on the wires. Having a good crimp tool helps a lot but a cheap one will work too as long as you take care to use enough crimping pressure. I find that the best crimp connectors to use are the weatherproof ones that have shrink tubing on them. After you make the crimp you heat it with a gun (or whatever) and the tubing shrinks and seals the connection. What you end up with is a solid watertight connection that will last as long as the wire will.

As far as restoring the OEM plugs, there isn't much you can do. You may be able to disassemble them but the pins are crimped on and are not reusable. The easiest thing to do is to see if you can find some clean used ones and splice them in.

I would like to bypass the factory O2 sensor and add a wideband to the ecu instead. this way i don't need to worry about the heated sensor and Id have a much more useful sensor to boot. I can do this right? with ectune or crome?

Easiest thing to do here is to get a wideband sensor that has two outputs (like the Innovate LC-1). One goes to the ECU and the other to a dash gauge. The LC-1 is nice because the outputs are programmable to act as either wide or narrow band outputs.


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