Replacing Distributor Rotor

[omianan]

I was going to change the distributor cap and rotor on my 88 Accord. Removed the two cap screws and removed the cap but the rotor appears to not just slide off the distributor shaft. I believe my 90 civic has a small bolt that holds the rotor to the shaft but I did not see any such mechanical fastening for this rotor. I read somewhere on 3geez that it needs to be pried off, but not wanting to break something. I will replace the cap and leave the rotor alone if it has to be pried off the shaft. Maybe it is just stuck and needs a nudge to get it off the shaft, What do you guys think?

[import racer]

The rotor just pulls off,if it's stuck use a pair of pliers to pull it off.

[omianan]

Thanks for confirming it just comes off. Used a screwdriver as a pry and a small block of wood to wiggle it off. The shaft was rusted and the metal tension spring inside the rotor was also rusted. Clean things up applied a light film of grease to the shaft before putting the new one back on. I now suspect I have a frozen mechanical advance system so will take a search of 3geez to see if I can find how to get enough of the distributor apart to get down to those pieces to clean and lube the springs and hinge points.

[omianan]

Worked on getting the rotor to rotate so that the advance weights will work, I notice that the rotor will turn on the shaft quite a bit without the shaft turning. It seems the flat spot on the rotor is larger than the flat spot on the distributor shaft. I cut a piece of plastic from a container the same size as the flat spot on the rotor (held it in place with a bit of white grease) and slid it on. Very little movement now. What is with the parts that they are making, are they suppose to be universal and really don't fit anything correctly.

[omianan]

Before pulling the hat off the Carb (need gasket set first), I pulled off the gas hose to the Carb and connected a piece of vacuum hose to the gas port on the side of the Carb so that I could blow into the bowl and put some pressure on the float seat. I expected that the pressure would push fuel into the jets and empty the float bowl, but it didn't seem to do that. There was quite a bit of resistance to blowing on the tube. If I sucked on the tube, the float seat sealed and a vacuum was created. I would have expected that it would have become easier to force air into the float bowl as the fuel was pushed out. Is my logic out of wack here? Given the stable resistance to the air, I am going to take the hat off once I get the Carb kit and see if the float is stuck in the mainly closed position. I have read the post on the hat removal and seems pretty straight forward without getting into trouble. It seems the post, removed the hat while the Carb was installed in the car, that is what I am planning to do. Has anyone else tried this and what were the results?

The car seems to run out of fuel after 2500 rpm and then cuts back in at 2000 rpm. It seems it has to wait for the fuel to catch up with the demand before it kicks back in.

I did get the choke diaphragm replaced yesterday and that improved the performance quite a bit as it was leaking so bad that I had to have it connected to the intake manifold to get a large enough supply of vacuum. The Carb connection would not supply enough vacuum to keep it open. It works off the Carb now.

I had a look at the primary fuel filter and there is no dirt/grit on it but the holder is rusty so I am assuming that this was changed already not too long ago. I may have done it last year, I forget, didn't write it down as being done. The two bolts that hold the filter are easy enough to get out so will get another filter for that.

[Dr_Snooz]

Have you checked your fuel pressure?

[omianan]

No, didn't know it was that important in carburetor engines always figured it was a critical item in fuel injection. What kind/type of gauge would I use? Any idea of what it is suppose to be? I imagine it would only be a few psi.

[g.frost]

........... I pulled off the gas hose to the Carb and connected a piece of vacuum hose to the gas port on the side of the Carb so that I could blow into the bowl and put some pressure on the float seat. I expected that the pressure would push fuel into the jets and empty the float bowl, but it didn't seem to do that......

The float bowl is fully vented to ATM by the diagonal 'port' that sticks up from the top of the float bowl. This Atm. pressure equalization is required for proper jet metering. (BTW, this vent tube is also a good place to introduce carb cleaner concentrate to get a good dose through the carb jets.)

I would not expect to get a high flow blowing through the float valve. It is a small orifice even fully opened.

[omianan]

Okay, thanks, that explains what those pipes do that stick out of the top of the carb; vents. I should be able to blow air through them into the float bowl chamber with a piece of vacuum hose attached to it. Will do that before removing the top hat to make sure they are not plugged. I have the rebuild kit but decided to make a new gasket using the one that came with the kit as a template, it took about an hour and a half using hole punches and an razor knife. At $99.00 for the kit, I will use the gaskets in the kit as a template to make new ones instead of using them. Too expensive to use. I have read the posts on 3Geez and figure I can take this apart and drive out the float pin to clean the seat and valve. Will clean out the passages as indicated with carb cleaner and compressed air. Not going to delve into the carb any deeper than the top hat removal and cleaning. I suppose it is best to use a new gasket when putting the top hat back on even if the old one is not torn or distorted in some way. The car has 308,000 KM on it with the carb never been cleaned so not sure what I am going to find in there.

I have found this site to be very useful in finding out about how things come apart and go together. I started with my first 88 accord in 1995 and have been working with and learning about these cars ever since. When these 2.0 liter engines are running right, they are just beautiful to listen to, when they aren't they are just so frustrating.

I found the post about step one for the removal of additional vacuum hosing for the operation of the engine most useful. I have followed those instructions and diagram and found the engine to run very satisfactorily without all of those numerous hoses.

[Dr_Snooz]

If it's acting fuel starved, I would definitely be looking at the fuel delivery system. When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter?

[ecogabriel]

If it's acting fuel starved, I would definitely be looking at the fuel delivery system. When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter?

If I remember right, carbed cars have two fuel filters : one in the engine bay and another at the rear (near the wheels). Check the service manuals for the location; if the gas lines are placed like in the EFI cars it should be on the drivers' side of the car

I would bet the front one has been replaced but the rear one might not; that may be a good time to replace it.

[omianan]

Dr. Snooz, you are correct, it was a fuel problem.

What had me puzzled was that I could drive around town and have no problems until i got out on the highway and wanted to get over 90 KM/Hr or up a hill, then the thing would act like it was out of fuel. On Saturday I took the Top Hat off the carburetor and cleaned it all up. There was a bit of grey sludge in the bottom of the float chamber. I used carb cleaner on all the jets and openings and then followed up with compressed air (air compressor), did this a number of times. Didn't need to drive the pin out of the float as everything was nice a free with that and could blow air through the valve once the float was hanging free. The gasket was in excellent shape as the Top Hat came off really easily without any prying, so just left it in place and reused it (have no leaks). Before putting the Top Hat back on, I filled the float chamber half full of gas so that it would be easier to start once I got it back together. Connected up all the linkage and hoses but thought I would leave the gas line disconnected and pump a bit of fuel into a jar (used a clear plastic hose to extent the fuel line to the jar). The car started up right away and noticed that I was getting small spurts of gas coming into the jar, not an full even flow and not very much volume. I suspected the fuel pump as the likely suspect. When I pulled the pump from the tank, it looked to be the original pump, not bad for 308,000 KM and 23 years later. The pump still worked but wasn't doing much pumping. Installed new pump with new filter on the pump. It now runs great, so great in fact that I decided to advance the timing a very small amount as I burn Premium gas all the time in the car so figured it could be advanced a small amount (about 1/16 of an inch counter-clockwise rotation from the reference mark I made on the distributor housing) Had to reduce the idle speed with the black knob on the back of the carb as it ran a bit faster with the advance timing. It starts great when cold, idles up to 2000 RPM in about a minute, then it drops back to 1600 RPM for another couple of minutes than drops down to idle speed all without touching the gas peddle. I had to replace the choke pull-off diaphragm as it was leaking vacuum. The thermowax valve is working correctly as it goes through the heat up cycle. When it gets warmer (in the spring) I will get rid of all the hoses that I am not using as I have followed the Step One hose removal drawing on 3Geez and left all the useless hoses still in the engine bay. Just cluttering things up in there.

So thanks for all the input as I worked through this one. I have replaced 4 fuel pumps on other Accords and on an old Ranger pickup that I use to have and all of them just quit so the engine wouldn't run, this is the first one that kept going but didn't pump fuel.

A fellow is selling an 89 Accord just 100 miles away from where I am for $550.00, says it has a carb issue but otherwise fine. Nobody has bought it in the last two months he has been trying to sell it, probably because nobody wants to work on these cars. I am tempted to go and get it and start the process all over again. One of the things stopping me is that it is an auto transmission and I favor the standard transmission types. I will be going over to that area in a couple of weeks so will go and have a look at it then, if he still has it. I sold my Plymouth Acclaim and E150 Van in the month of November so have a bit of space in the yard now.

Back at you later.

[Dr_Snooz]

That's good work. I don't think you'll have any trouble getting the other car to run. If you run into trouble, we're here to help.

[omianan]

Just my luck, the car got sold before I got back to the fellow. Oh, well, there will be another one come along. I sure do appreciate having you guys out there to help through the mine fields of mechanics on these "vacuum" operated cars. I have heard that not many people will work on them just because of all the hoses and interconnects between vacuum and electrical components. It does keep it interesting.
My next job on the car that I am driving daily is the rear brake cylinders as they have just a bit of a weep to them now (and are originals) so when the weather gets warmer in the spring, I will get to them. Bought the two cylinders last week so have them in stock.