Buzo's Accord & Megasquirt II EFI controller

[Buzo]

For my Christmas gift this year I am going to buy one Megaskirt II EFI controller for my Accord.

The only reason is that I want to learn how MS handles the ignition to later get it implemented in my system.

I will also compare the performance of a home made ECM vs an expensive commercial ECM.

And finally, once MS is implemented in the car i hope to get some free time for myself to finish the PCB design and the tuning and chip programming software.

[Buzo]

Wow, it seems like Santa got earlier this year (or I have been a super-good guy) because I got my Megaskirt II already. And I don't know how he knew, but included a Wide Band Oxigen Sensor as well!

I am going to start building the MS board in these days, but when finished, I will leave my EFI system's harness in place, so I can swap to any one at any time.

[itzdave]

I assume ur talking about megasquirt?

[Buzo]

Megasquirt. Yes, sorry.

Skirt is a women's cloth, right? hahahha megaskirt. Oh man, sorry.

[Buzo]

The MegaSquirt board is complete and programmed with the default settings (except for my engine characteristics)

I will leave My ECM connector in place so anything I learn from MS I will get it implemented in mine.

I'm going to be honest and tell the truth why I decided to buy the MS board...

It was because of a tooth I recently lost. (it was slightly loose since I was in high school, after a fight with another guy -I won the fight anyway (I suppose) because he said stop and was bleeding from his face-

So I went to the dentist and he put me a false tooth. He charged me 400 USD right there!

Then I said, well, 266 USD for an unassembled Megasquirt isn't that expensive after all.

That's the real reason why here I am starting this new project...

Here is the board I already soldered and the pigtail ready to get connected to the car.

[cygnus x-1]

The MegaSquirt board is complete and programmed with the default settings (except for my engine characteristics)

I would super highly recommend paying the small fee to register TunerStudio. It is an AMAZING program.

Not sure which firmware you plan to use but I would recommend MSExtra over the standard B&G code. In your application it won't make a huge difference but it has some features that the B&G code does not.

I can also help you with any settings and even a timing table whenever you get around to setting up the ignition.

It was because of a tooth I recently lost. (it was slightly loose since I was in high school, after a fight with another guy -I won the fight anyway (I suppose) because he said stop and was bleeding from his face-

So I went to the dentist and he put me a false tooth. He charged me 400 USD right there!

Then I said, well, 266 USD for an unassembled Megasquirt isn't that expensive after all.

That's the real reason why here I am starting this new project...

Interesting logic. But hey, whatever.

Incidentally I broke a tooth about 3 months ago (had to be pulled). Tomorrow morning I go back to the dentist to see how it has healed and find out about getting an implant. Talk about expensive. Implants are like $4000!

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[Buzo]

Thanks Cygnus, I will really going to need your help when working out the timing setup.

Hey, do you have any write up in any other forum of your MS setup I can follow?

[cygnus x-1]

Thanks Cygnus, I will really going to need your help when working out the timing setup.

Hey, do you have any write up in any other forum of your MS setup I can follow?

Yes and no. I did have a thread over on Preludepower.com where I documented some things, but it probably won't be all that helpful since I was using different hardware. For example, I used an Acura Integra intake manifold and injectors, which is a port style setup where you are using a TBI. I also retrofitted some Ford (EDIS) ignition parts to create a crank triggered distributor-less system instead of using the stock distributor and coil. The ignition setup is different depending on how you go about it. The Ford EDIS setup is superior (in several ways) to a distributor type system but it requires fitting of a trigger wheel onto the crank. I can do this for you (for a small fee of course) if you're interested. The down side of the EDIS setup is that it requires the AC system to be removed (due to space constraints). I know it's gets pretty hot down by you so I can understand if you don't want to give up AC.

OR, if you want to be adventurous, there are many other ignition triggering schemes supported by MS that you could try, but they all require fitting of a trigger wheel of some kind, either on the cam or the crank. Probably the easiest one would be to try and fit a newer OBD1 type distributor in place of the stock distributor. I actually sell a kit to do just that but it's expensive ($300). In the next couple months I'm planning to work out a cheaper way to do this, by modifying the distributor itself instead of using an adapter plate.


Anyway, the best thing to do for you I think would be to read the MS pages on ignition setup and then come back here if you have any specific questions. The MS documentation can be quite intimidating and confusing due to it's immense size, so don't be afraid to ask seemingly "dumb" questions either. Even if it's just "where do I find such and such?"


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[Buzo]

Since my car was already working with fuel injection, I just replaced one controller with another, all the hard work was already done before.

So my MS setup did run at the first try. The only problem I had was that the engine was rev'ing up and down at Idle, adjusted the VE values and that was it.

For now I will lock up the mechanism of the stock dizzy and give the MS the spark control, I will certainly contact you if I need more specialized hardware.
Thanks.

[Buzo]

This' gonna be a short project though!

So what would be next?
Convert it from TBI to port injection by swapping the intake from an EX-I..?

[Buzo]

I knew I was going to have problems when implementing timing control.

I don't have a timing gun available, but I removed the spark plugs and manually turned the engine until the compression cycle was found, along with the marks in the camshaft pulley.

I also was careful to put a mark in the direction of the rotor before removing it, and put the rotor in the same direction after I locked up the advance mechanism inside the dizzy. I welded some points to the counterweights to lock it up.

Well, now the car won't start. What I'm doing is controlling the spark and advance from the MS, so I used the electronics inside the dizzy to give the pulse to MS and an internal transistor from MS will drive the coil.

Somebody give me an advise of how to set the initial timing (regardless of the controller). Since the mechanism is now locked in the "rest" position, I know it may be slightly offset, but the car does nothing even though I move the distributor back or front.

[Oldblueaccord]

If you mean welded the weights with and electric arc welder then the surge might have fried something in side like the pickup coil. Check for spark.

To time it the rotor should be right on the #1 plug wire/tower on your cap with #1 cylinder on compression stroke,both valves closed.


wp

[Buzo]

If you mean welded the weights with and electric arc welder then the surge might have fried something in side like the pickup coil. Check for spark.

To time it the rotor should be right on the #1 plug wire/tower on your cap with #1 cylinder on compression stroke,both valves closed.


wp

Yes, it was with an electric arc welder, but I disassembled the dizzy & its electronics first.

Another question for those that have used a timing light...How many degrees of advance is in the slot of the dizzy? Since I don't have one timing light I need to know how to advance it ~20 degrees. Which I assume will be a fraction of the whole slot...

To make sure It was well aligned I reconnected everything back to normal (dizzy still locked up) and the car fired up. So the problem resides in the tuning of the MegaSquirt. I will ask for support in the MS forums.

[cygnus x-1]

Another question for those that have used a timing light...How many degrees of advance is in the slot of the dizzy? Since I don't have one timing light I need to know how to advance it ~20 degrees. Which I assume will be a fraction of the whole slot...

There is quite a lot of adjustment at the distributor. What I would suggest is to first set the crank at TDC by the timing mark on the flex plate. Then adjust the distributor (with the cap off) so that the reluctor wheel lines up with the VR sensor vanes. This way the MS gets the trigger signal exactly at TDC and the trigger angle in the settings is 0. Now you can setup the ignition advance table for whatever you want.

Here is an ignition table that should work pretty well:






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[Buzo]

This is what i was looking for, Cygnus, Thanks.

[Buzo]

Not sure which firmware you plan to use but I would recommend MSExtra over the standard B&G code. In your application it won't make a huge difference but it has some features that the B&G code does not.

MSExtra has closed loop control for the Idle Speed and the standard B&G code does not. Enough reason to switch to MSExtra! Well, as soon as the car starts again. I will give it another try today...

[Buzo]

It's time to get back to this forum and keep documenting the progress with my car & Megasquirt.

I've been spending some time in the MS forums trying to fix a problem I got when trying to get my stock dizzy and coil controlled by MS. I could not make it work after all the efforts I made.

So I will switch to a trigger wheel and get rid of my dizzy. Then I will put very nice "pencil coils" (or coil on plug, or COP).

I'll start by finding a way to adapt the trigger wheel to the front of the crankshaft. I got an idea to start with, and I will upload some pics of the progress.

[Dr_Snooz]

I always love watching your projects unfold. Can't wait to see what you do.

[Buzo]

You need a toothed wheel, The Ford cars and trucks have something similar to this:



The wheel is press-fit into the pulley, with the tools I have at home I could not remove it, so I made a cut in the middle of the missing tooth and then it came off easily.

[Buzo]

We are going to use the cavity inside the pulley.
The toothed wheel is slightly bigger, so I cut like 1/3 of the length of each tooth. Cut a little bit and measure, cut some more and measure again



When it is almost the size, I forced it into the pulley using a hammer. The slot I made to take the wheel off helped me a little bit so nothing got broken

[Buzo]

One just need to be creative with the available stuff. I plan to make a bracket to be screwed to the AC mounting support. This install was OK to take measurements to design the bracket and probe it works.



This is the car running and sensing the teeth from one side, which is not the "normal" way. But it works! All depend on the sensor type you use. Mine has two Hall sensors inside in differential configuration, so it switches exactly when one is looking at the gap, and the other is looking at the tooth.

[Buzo]

The coil is accurately controlled by Megasquirt now. Here you can see the dizzy with the vacuum advance and all the electronics inside removed.

I wired everything to put the pencil coils but, due to the football games, I had no time to finish them today

So a few more days only using the rotor to distribute the high voltage to the spark plugs.

[2ndGenGuy]

Wow, that's a pretty rad solution you came up with for mounting the trigger wheel. Looks like with that setup, you could keep PS/AC and all that! Nice work!

[Dr_Snooz]

OMG!! Your trigger wheel is absolute genius! The pencil coils are more genius.

[cygnus x-1]

Ahhaa!!! Now that I see the pulley from an angle i see what you did. I was thinking you fit the trigger wheel over the center part of the pulley, but you fit it inside the flange from the AC section. Ingenious indeed! And what I said on the MS forum about your pulley is incorrect. You DO have the standard Accord pulley. It was just hard to tell from the pictures you posted there.

So this would let you keep the AC when doing a MS conversion. The next thing to figure out is if there is a VR type sensor that can be easily mounted to read off the side of the teeth. That would let people do the EDIS retrofit with the Megajolt controller.


Did you use any screws or anything else (besides press fitting) to keep the trigger ring in? I would be somewhat concerned about it working loose over time due to vibration.


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