Budget Race lude!

[rjudgey]

Right Guys and Girls, I know I'm lazy I haven't got time to search just want a easy to get to thread straight onto the topic.

Challenge 999

special racing event in UK run by Practical Performance Car magazine in September

999 is the budget in pounds to buy and build a car a total of £250 can be sold as spares to top up budget

Challenge is to drive 5 1/4mile sprints and 5 Auto X style circuits whoever averages the fastest times in all events wins.

I have a B20A chassis and engine in reasonable condition crusty around the edges but doesn't need much welding apart from over the sunroof and maybe a bit underneath.

what I need are cost effective solutions to max poweroutput and suspension upgrade, brakes not so important here but as they are B20A ones probably just new disks and pads will be sufficient unless you think otherwise.

Main aim cut out the weight as much as possible, strengthen what we can everywhere, convert to weber carbs, upgrade gearbox etc. full monty were looking at.

The car cost me nothing and i have tonnes of spares, what i need is cost effective solutions for hard core racing this has to be road legal so nothing radical that will effect testing the car.

Please put all suggestions in here and try to seperate each one into a sub topic e.g. suspension idea and seperate thread on engine etc. But any ideas as long as on a nice tight budget welcome.

Thanks for all your help to give you some idea what were up against theres a Toyota MR2 with a mildly tuned Camry V6 in the back, Saab 9000 with a turbo from a tractor pulling 600bhp!!! (won't handle though!) and a Golf Mk2 with 300bhp 1.8Turbo and decent suspension. Think last years winner was a MX5 with a V8 in it!!

Thanks for your help Rusty and Ryan really need your help with suspension and tracking setup on this one!

[rustlude87]

Well Rich I would buy some ebay coilovers and some stock replacement struts for the rear and some used 88-91 civic front struts or 92-92 civic or 94-01 integra front struts if they are adjustable. I think that would be a good start, what motor mods were you thinking?

[rjudgey]

I have Koni Reds front and rear, or KYB which i think are better slightly than the reds, Ideally would like to put something adustable on their if i can but limited to budget so nothing outrageous like Hot bits etc. Was thinking Koni yellows with some good coilover sleeves, i have some sleeves for 50mm shocks for rears already though but need to choose spring rates and lengths etc.
Is there any shocks that are going to give me good damping for race springs from any other models that can be made to fit?
What spring rates do you think i can run to make this a auto X monster? Have poly bushes already, planning on rose jointing and having adjustable tie rod bars on back.
Or you think i should just get some good std shocks like KYB and throw some Kings springs on or similar? I have couple of sets of lowering springs one from AVO, another JAmex and some other unkown make, AVO not too bad Jamex too soft on rear unkown make no idea never driven on them!
I don't think I'm going to win the drag event unless i manage to afford a cheap NOS setup so need to make sure i nail the handling tests!!

Engine mods been digging around 3rd gen lude forum and come up with some interesting ideas!!
Thinking H23 rods with UK 3rd gen lude pistons (10.5:1 CR!), then getting the head skimmed 1.5mm should see CR ratio jump to 12:1, then head work my way with the full monty going on will be using 34mm stainless inlet valves, 30mm exhaust valves from my SI blanks, bronze guides with the ends reshaped, thinking about web cams regrind with 242 degree duration or possibly crower cams as they have more lift, B20A5 exhaust header with downpipe hacked off and my own 2-1 downpipe section welded on with larger piping and 2.5" system mandrel bent. going to pull in a few favours for getting this done cheap but all possible maybe even rent a welding machine and DIY it. Will be using inlet manifold from A20 with my Weber DCOE's on them they should easily be able to cope with the projected 250bhp that I'm hoping to achieve!! (hoping so anyway or very near it) Torque should be around the 170-180lbft mark hopefully :0)

Brakes just going to chuck on some Ferrodo stock pads and EBC grooved disks all round which should do the trick

Weight this is the biggest area really going to be hacking and throwing out everything and anything i can to get the weight off aiming at 850kg's or less if i can.

Driving then the rest is upto me! lol! I'm pretty hot in this area so probably make up a lot of ground plus have years and years of tracking this car so pretty experienced with how they handle on the limit!

[fmn716]

Have you checked out the member messyhonda he has some h23 rods for sale

[rustlude87]

Rich you are really thinking a little to hard on the suspension. For autox I've done fine on lower rates of springs. I know a lot of people who went with ebays and that $1000 limit comes fast. Buy used always when you do a build like this.

Also for the motor a turbo motor is gonna win the competition hands down... look at the grassroots motorsport challenge most of the top cars are turbo.

[rjudgey]

I know turbo would be fun but adding the extra weight up front ahead of wheels, the extra torque steer and possibiliy that gearbox diff might explode, (might not have time or budget to sort it) I think going N/A is a good way I reckon i can easily hit 230-250bhp maybe squeeze tiny bit more if i go really mad on cams and I'd also be a lot more comfortable tuning webers than trying to convert everything to megasquirt and mapping. Don't get me wrong could do it but think it would be cheaper, and just as powerfull going down the route I am, plus it will sound the Bees Knees and hell who on here has weberized a B20A!! I want to see what it's like!! :O)

[rustlude87]

Rich, Im in no doubt you couldn't do that. You might want to read this might give you a good ideas on some stuff

http://ef-honda.com/main/viewtopic.p...d93942651c682b

[88LXi68]

Weight reduction - cut underhood webbing, remove interior panels, sound deadening, remove inner door bars, remove front and rear bumpers (not the covers), remove a/c and ps components, and remove all dust shields (exhaust and brake)

[rjudgey]

OH yeah the car is going on a major diet and I'll be keeping as much rust as possible as we all know it's lighter than carbon fibre! lol! Not as strong mind! Doh!
Seriously though going to try and chop my way legally to as little as 850kg's or less if possible.

[Strugglebucket]

are tyres part of the budget?

[fmn716]

rich have you heard of rs machine pistons they make a generic itr/ctr piston(81mm) for 160usd

[rjudgey]

Unfortunately i think tyres are part of budget going to bend the rules slightly on them though as i have some contacts in tyre business so trying to blag a set of worn semi's from somewhere or I'll just have to get some Yoko Parada 2's which are pretty much like a semi slick anyway! and cheap! Just have to hope it does't rain or I'll be stuffed! lol! I do have a spare set of wheels and tyres if it does though which are more rain orientated.
As for the engine I need to check the piston pin size ideally i want to run a 82mm bore size but 81mm would cut down on machining costs I suppose but this isn't huge as i know the guy well and gives me good prices. As it was getting decked anyway having it bored wouldn't be much more.
Pain with the EDM B20A having smaller wrist pin size for the life of me can't remember what it is I know it's definately not 22mm either 21mm or 20mm.

[fmn716]

well they also do a 82mm piston for 160usd

[rjudgey]

Nice got a link to who sells it? May have to consider would think the valve spacing and sizes would be similar to what I'm planning with B20A

[fmn716]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RS-MA...Q5fAccessories

In this forum I have read that you can use b16 pistons on a b20a but you need to use h23 rods

just double check on this

[hondalude86]

Rich! Make the ghetto extended top hats! Rusty has a point with the cheap ebays to get sleeves but honestly id buy some used 2.25 or 2.50 id springs close to these rates and lengths...
Front 6inch 500-600lbs
Rear 7 inch 600-700lbs.
Dump the fuck out of it. The high spring rates in the rear will help it rotate on tight autox courses and will help your drag launches too!

If you're on a tight budget don't worry about the rear toe bars. The ONLY reason you should think about doing it is to reduce the amount of toe out under hard cornering with super sticky tires.
Max your camber front and rear and run zero toe in the front AND rear, and if your worried about the hard loading toe out issue run a 1/16th inch toe in the rear. Oh yeah and max caster up front (realisticly shoot for 5 degree positive caster and go poly on those front radius rods!)

[hondalude86]

Rich! Make the ghetto extended top hats! Rusty has a point with the cheap ebays to get sleeves but honestly id buy some used 2.25 or 2.50 id springs close to these rates and lengths...
Front 6inch 500-600lbs
Rear 7 inch 600-700lbs.
Dump the fuck out of it. The high spring rates in the rear will help it rotate on tight autox courses and will help your drag launches too!

If you're on a tight budget don't worry about the rear toe bars. The ONLY reason you should think about doing it is to reduce the amount of toe out under hard cornering with super sticky tires.
Max your camber front and rear and run zero toe in the front AND rear, and if your worried about the hard loading toe out issue run a 1/16th inch toe in the rear. Oh yeah and max caster up front (realisticly shoot for 5 degree positive caster and go poly on those front radius rods!)

[rjudgey]

What shocks can take that spring rate? I would still like to do rear tie bars though just for fun and making something better for not a lot. We will see might just find a way of making them better using stock parts worse case i have new bushes i can use anyway.

[rustlude87]

Ryan I think 6" springs are better for the rear, Rich most stock replacement shocks should be ok, if you wanted to get really crazy and cheap.... a set a koni yellows for a civic ef could work, you could weld a tab on the shock so it could fit on the rear perch....

[rjudgey]

So you think a Civic rear shock could be made to fit then?

[hondalude86]

Id measure the diameter of the shock as well as the length. If its too small weld on a peice of tubing that would be the proper id/od of the shock

[rjudgey]

Got GAZ shocks going to look into what they can find that might work just need to go down there with a pair of front and rear shocks :O)

[rjudgey]

Looks like we may well have a Coilover kit coming our way the guys at Gaz really helpfull and eager to make this happen!

Richard,
I have drawn up the dampers, the front will be a base adjustable damper where you adjust the bump & rebound damping at the same time on a fixed ratio, the rears will be a top adjustable strut where it's only the rebound damping that is adjusted & i don't have any of the brake pipe brackets so i cannot put them on the new struts, i can put a different one on that you may be able to use. Can you let us have your full name,address & a contact no. so we can put an order on the system & get these under way.

Regards,
Mark

[rjudgey]

The man from Gaz says the spring rates should work well with a road legal semi slick type tyre so we'll see what happens i guess trying to see howmuch these will work out at if anyone else want's a kit made up. Probably ultimately have 2 sets made for 2 of my cars. And I'll use the best of the stock stuff i have and the best lowering springs i have on my red car to keep it as stock as possible.

[rjudgey]

Here we go after not a very long time at all! This just turned up in the post!!



I can't wait to get these bad boys fitted on!! Just shame I'm too ill at the moment to get outside!!