hi. i just recently bought this car and knew it was going to have issues (it was cheap) and ive been trying to solve them as i go.
when i first turned the ignition last night, the dash flickered (electrical issue?) and this has happened at least a few times before so i didnt think much of it... but then after driving for about 10 minutes it began to overheat and i could smell the engine burning. my first inclination was to turn on the heat but it was blowing cold air. :/ any ideas?
some background information:
a few weeks ago i had what seemed to be the beginnings of a blown head gasket after letting it overheat on the freeway. there was alot of exhaust smoke even after topping off the radiator with water so i bought some barsleak and again topped off the radiator and it seemed to actually fix it. havent had any overheating issues since... but is this maybe a delayed relation to that?
the next issue i ran into was one week ago or so the oil light came on and began flickering and i realized it was probably super low on oil. i think it might burn up oil from various engine issues... so i bought some oil 10w30 and put it in the engine. a few days later i checked the dipstick and the oil reading still seemed to be low, so i put another quart in... but it was probably different brand, maybe expired too? does motor oil go bad? do different types matter?. i then checked the dipstick again to see where the oil level was and it was still kinda low so i put in another half quart.. of again a different brand and age, but i believe it was still all 10w30...not sure if these multiple different oils might be a cause? I am even starting to wonder if the dipstick is able to give a good reading or if it just doesnt hit the tank all the way or something.
a final thing ive ran into is that when i first bought the car the ignition timing was (i guess) set advanced. and the car ran really good. once i got it smogged and they adjusted the timing, it ran like crap and i could barely hold 65 on the freeway.. so i adjusted the distributor a little a few days ago and it now is running as good as it was when i first got it.... but im wondering, could i have put it too far? could that cause overheating? i really dont know much anything about cars and im learning as i go... but i was going to try to move it a little closer to what the factory setting was to see if that helps.. heh.
im taking shots in the dark here i know.
one more detail is when i first got the car it was set to cold air. you could not even move the slider over to hot until i forced it really hard. ever since now the heat has seemed to work... until tonight. i tried fiddling with all the buttons trying different combinations of the ac and vents and hilo and heat and etc but nothing would make heat come out and the heater gauge still kept climbing until i smelled burning engine and stopped the car.
If your not getting heat that could mean either the valve that lets hot coolent into the heater core is broken or your heater core is clogged.
if im understanding right you think you may have blown the head gasket?
What is the color of the coolant? Is it muddy and rusty looking? If that is the case you may have a clogged radiator and or a worn water pump. Let the car sit and idle until it reaches operating temperature, place your hand on the top coolant line and then check the bottom, one should be hotter than the other.
Changing your timing wouldn't affect it, just the idle and drive-ability. with the climate controls you may have broken the lever that goes to the HVAC box, this switches from one side to another for hot or cold air.
1989 Accord Lx-i hatchback (current DD project)
1986 Olds Cutlass 442 clone (never ending project)
3Geez resident body man
Owner of Wreck-less auto body
If you think it is a head gasket leak, look at the water in the radiator and if it looks like chocolate milk its a head gasket leak, you can also pull your oil dip stick out and put a lighter to it and if it pops/crackles/snarls at you, then its a head gasket leak. for the heater part your valve is probably stuck closed. and needs to be fixed, try manually opening the valve, it runs into the firewall, looks like a cable is connected to it.. that's the heater valve if you open it up and it works. its something to do with your cable not opening the valve allowing hot water/coolant into your core. thus creating the hot air..Originally Posted by syn
LIFE IS SHORT, DRAG IT OUT!
ok. so i just checked and added more water to the radiator and it ate up literally GALLONS!!! i never would have imagined this being the issue because i just completely filled it up with water like, a few days ago and it only took in a few cups at that point.
i realize this could potentially mean there is a head gasket issue, which sucks... but it seems really strange it could eat up practically all of its water within only 60 miles or so of driving after i made sure it was completely full and after it had stayed mostly full for over a week.
will report back.. thanks for replies.
if it seems like the coolant usage increased dramatically then are you sure you filled it up completely, and got all the air out of the cooling system when you filled it up previously?
also does it blow white smoke out of the tail pipe (if the coolant level is dropping, its either gotta be leaking or burning and if it's using a lot coolant fast and burning it, you'd have a lot of white smoke coming out of the tail pipe). is you have a small headgasket leak, the leak can cause the cooling system to become pressurized and provide insufficient cooling, and can force coolant out of the radiator overflow tank.
i guess the first thing i would do is make sure that it doesn't have a headgasket problem, if the oil still looks like oil, with a pressure leak down test or by checking for the by byproducts of combustion in the cooling system. if the headgasket checks out ok, then its time for general coolant system (coolant leaks, thermostat, clogged radiator/coolant system, bad water pump).
also, about the oil, different manufactures use different additive packages in their oil and i generally try to but the same brand in if i'm adding oil, but its WAY better to have a weird/random oil mix in the engine then to drive it if the oil light is on at all, and as far as i know oil doesn't expire, but manufactures do reformulate their oil from time to time.
sorry if you know all this stuff already, E.
i drove it about 20 miles today after REfilling up the radiator directly with water and it was running pretty shakily.. it died at a stop light after about 16 miles. had to push it to a parking lot and let it rest for awhile. the engine was completely steaming up and expelling lots of fumes so i opened the hood and i waited around awhile for it to cool off, about 20-30 minutes or so.
then i tried to put more water in the radiator but at this point i noticed it was just leaking right back out. i tried to fire it up just to see if the car would still work and much to my amazement it still started!! so then i tried to drive it just down the road a little but after a few miles it started really smoking up. upon further inspection under the hood i noticed the hose that is connected to the radiator had a HUGE slash in it.. and when i pour water into the radiator it simply spits it right back out.
im going to try out those head gasket tests you recommended, thanks for that. not sure if its just a busted hose that caused all of this or if the hose is a result of the rest and if it relates to a head gasket blown. the only thing that is potentially worrysome about the headgasket being the issue is that i managed to put water into the radiator and top it off in the very beginning of the day before i drove it... and NOW it has a slash in the hose.
I did have alot of white exhaust 2 weeks ago before i bought the barsleak head gasket solution and poured it into the radiator... that seemed to fix it at that point though as im not getting white exhaust now even with all these other issues.
the temperature gauge seems to not be working at all now though either, and i guess that might be related to the fact its not getting any water... or its eating up most of its water. i heard that the heater wont shoot out heat either if the car has no water and this seems to be true.
probably going to have to scrap this car but im going to try to make it working at least a little and maybe a shady dealership will give me more than the junk yard will for it :/ heh. thanks for ideas
Last edited by syn; 05-01-2012 at 07:58 PM.
why scrap it? a headgasket repair isn't bad on this car at all
Do what you can to mend the cooling system, Replace the busted hose you saw and any other ones that are failure prone. Might be a good idea to flush the system.
I hope it's just fluid leaking out of the hose or radiator before the water pump can be primed or is unable to prime because of too much air getting into the lines.
From experience though I've had the heater go cold on a few cars I've driven or ridden in and then the car overheated. In most cases it was the water pump going bad and not circulating the coolant, however there were a few instance where it ended up being the radiator leaking, and a couple where the heater hose or radiator hose itself was leaking. Then again a water pump going bad can cause the overheating which then could end up bursting hoses and creating leaks elsewhere. Same goes for a radiator fan or thermoswitch not working. I've yet to run into a blown head gasket so can't help you there.
The coolant sensor may not always see the temp of the radiator fluid due to pockets of air or the fluid simply not circulating, (LX has it on the back of the intake manifold, LXI is on the thermostat housing)
On the accords I've worked on you'll usually see a spray pattern on the underside of the hood above the water pump area from a leaking/faulty pump. But considering the age of these cars it may be from something that occurred years ago.
Check for a loose drive belt as well as they can cause problems for the pump and alternator.
I hook up a garden hose to the radiator and see if the water leaks out the radiator or any hoses. If you fix the radiator hose it may be something to try.
I'm always iffy about putting in sealants into the engine or radiator, it could end up restricting/blocking a vital passages.
Last edited by A20A1; 05-03-2012 at 09:07 AM.
- llia
yeah, im pretty sure its a head gasket issue now... there is white smoke coming out of the exhaust and another hose just busted. when i managed to fix the other busted hose and get water into it, it ran REALLY shakily. like it just couldnt handle the water being put into it... i dont really understand cars as i said and dont know what a head gasket really controls, but from what i understand it allows fluids to seep into everywhere. the radiator fluid looks to have oil or gasoline in it as it does look like chocolate milk.
i am almost willing to try to replace the head gasket myself, but... this car won't pass smog either. a mechanic told me that it the reason for that could potentially be that the valves need to be replaced (which he told me would total around 1000 bucks which is way more than the car is worth, especially in this state.) i considered that maybe i could replace the valves too, but then i found out that you need special equipment to, shape? them? i dont really understand this, but a friend told me that even if you pay a mechanic just to do that part, it would probably cost around 500. someone else also told me that a cylinder is probably frozen or something, from it dying and me killing it overheating it repeatedly. the other day i tried to drive it home by stopping every 2-3 miles and letting it cool for 10-20 minutes then driving it another few miles before it overheats. (the temp gauge does not show a thing but the engine starts literally smoking). since the main radiator hose doesnt even get to the engine, putting water in it accomplishes nothing.
so i duno what to do. if i buy a new head gasket and etc for 150 or so and replace that, the car will still have other issues (my friend explained to me) and other things will need to be replaced within weeks potentially. especially since it wont even pass smog, i dont see much of a reason to throw away another few hundred on it. theres a smog car retirement program here in california where they will give you 1000 for a car that won't pass smog (or 500 towards getting it fixed). but they aren't accepting applications till july. i assume they ran out.
im trying to figure out what to do. i called up cash for junk cars numbers and they are offering me like 200 bucks to come out and tow it. so its like, do i spend 200 to fix it with a new head gasket? (knowing it will probably have alot more continuing problems) and try to retire it in july hoping it will last that long? or should i just take the 200 now. or is there more i could get for it somehow? any ideas? lol. thanks, this was a disaster car. sucks. i really enjoy the way it drives too, which is unfortunate...
what would you do? thanks for ideas. lol
A blown headgasket can make the car run really rough, the headgasket is sandwiched between the head and the block, and if it goes you can have compression problems (1 or more cylinders with low compression that will make the car "miss" or run really roughly). The head and the block also have coolant and oil passages, and when the headgasket fails coolant can get into the cylinders (causing white smoke and also this can pressurized the coolant system, breaking hoses, forcing out coolant, ect) or into the oil (making the oil look milky and running the risk of damaging the crankshaft bearings). Also the oil can get into the coolant system, discoloring the coolant as well. Depending on where the headgasket fails some or all of these things can happen, but the bad one is coolant in the oil.
Before deciding to fix it on the cheap (aka doing it yourself) I would verify that the oil still looks good, if coolant has been mixing with the oil for any length of time, then its probably time to rebuild or replace the motor as running the engine with OIL that looks like gray paint or chocolate milk car tear up the bearings pretty quickly.
As far as smog goes, its not an issue where i live, so hopefully someone w. more exp can chime in. A question though, when did you get ti checked? before or after you started having issues with the cars cooling system? If it was after I would imagine that there's a good possibility that fixing the headgasket could remedy the not passing the smog check problem, although once again this is an area where i have a lot of knowledge. What kind of data do they give you when the car fails a smog test?
I guess if it were me, and the oil looked good i would just do the headgasket and see where that got me. Just one more thing, if you replace the HG, make sure to use a straight edge to verify that the bottom of the head and the top of the engine block are still flt, and not warped. Around here machine shops will check a head for cracks clean it up a bit and check it for warpage for about $80.
Also, if you can find a used motor for a few hundred that might be good option too.
I have read the postings and given that you did not seem to notice that coolant was leaking from the system - only to find a slashed hose later on after over-heating the engine a few times, I wonder how much experience you have tinkering with cars, especially old ones like those.
I think it is critical to assess what you may know about cars in order to determine whether you can fix it or you will be better off by scrapping it. Otherwise, we will be pouring advice based on what WE can do but not on what YOU may actually do.
You said it would not pass smog; however, you said nothing about whether it is EFI or carbed. From my experience, emission failures in EFI cars can be fixed without a lot of drama especially when you have an emissions report and the computer codes.
EDIT: I've been without sleep for a few days... sorry if something has come out as ill-tempered (it is not)
Last edited by ecogabriel; 05-04-2012 at 02:30 PM.
If it ain't broke... I fix it!
honestly, to me its amazing this car still fires up. i ran it completely smoking like crazy and i killed it to the point it wouldnt start up at least three times. but the next day, or after an hour or so it always seems to fire up again lol. im always AMAZED after every time.
it is a carb not fuel injection. i read theres some other part that can get f'd up after a head gasket goes in a carb and that costs around 500. cant remember what it was. anyway, after the first time it died, it was smoking like crazy but the headgasket fix solution i tried seemed to really work.
after a few weeks later though, now, its been sucking up water and died /overheated again. some hoses busted so i replaced those, but it ran horribly up until it busted another hose. once it burned up or shot out all the water going to the engine everything ran great though. the engine isnt that shakey and still accelerates and drives pretty damn smooth. not sure if thats unusual or expected. after its been on for like 5 minutes/2-3miles it starts smoking like crazy out of the crack in the newly busted hose. it smells like, i dont know. a mixuture of gas and bad smells smoking out of the engine and the engine feels extremely hot.
i dont know alot about cars, or have any advanced tools or anything like that. but ive just read replacing a head gasket isnt that much work. so far the only real work ive done is to replace a few busted hoses and adjust the timing. i know thats nothing lol, but ive also read that a head gasket isnt an impossible fix for an amateur. the only thing im thinking is, that that wont even get close to fixing it since there are going to be mass other problems now.
as for the smog.... i hadn't tried to get it smogged until after the first time it overheated. i had used the headgasket solution which seemed to fix the car but maybe that increased emissions? not sure. it passed the 25mph test but on the 15mph test it had really high HC (hydrocarbon?) emissions. the limit is something like 100, and it was reading 2000 or something insane!! thats where the mechanic explained to me it was probably the fact its an old car and the valves have never been replaced. (but he didnt know about the potential head gasket issue i thought i solved)
if i simply do a head gasket job on this do you think it will stay running and stabilize so i can keep using it? or will i require a ton of other things to keep this car going. if so i guess im going to have to scrap it. theres no real reason to dump more than like 400 bucks into a car that isnt barely worth 1000 right? i got it for around that much.
thanks for all replies.
if i simply do a head gasket job on this do you think it will stay running and stabilize so i can keep using it? or will i require a ton of other things to keep this car going. if so i guess im going to have to scrap it. theres no real reason to dump more than like 400 bucks into a car that isnt barely worth 1000 right? i got it for around that much.
thanks for all replies.[/QUOTE]
I suggest if your spending 400$ for a head gasket to find another site/person.
you can check if its a head gasket leak by pulling the dip stick out and trying to light it on fire with a lighter, if it snarls and crackles. HEAD GASKET LEAK.. Also your Reservoir probably has a crack in the bottom, and or all your hoses are allowing the water to drain right out, the Water pump will whine, and leak water out like a sieve as well, And your car is only worth as much as you put into it. and after all these cars are well over age, even if the car has 50k miles the rubbers and gaskets are so wore from age alone..
LIFE IS SHORT, DRAG IT OUT!
The oil and coolant are life blood in your engine. It is simply amazing to me that people think they can continue to run and drive a car with obvious hemmorage of these fluids.
Yes, simply amazing the engine hasn't refused to run while you continue to do more and more damage to it. You are proving it is a tough engine while you destroy it.
Doing a head gasket replacement is not THAT complicated, but that does not mean that it is easy. Screw the bolt loosening/tightening sequence and you have just warped the head. A torque wrench is needed, and after that you will ineed to re-install the timing belt and time it correctly.
I doubt the emissions failure is due to valve issues, and especially so if the engine was running fine before the overheating episodes. My Civic has well over 225K miles on the original head so according to that mechanic it should not pass emissions; well, it just passed emissions today.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2000/ic60032.htm
I am still surprised the cylinder head can take so much punishment; Ford's CVH engines in the Escorts would drop valve seats without warning and even overheating. No wonder 1990s escorts are becoming a less and less frequent sight...
If you really want to try fixing that car, I would suggest stop driving it at once, or it won't be that much left to fix.
If it ain't broke... I fix it!
x2. My oil pump seals are witness to that (and only had 140xxx miles). Ditto for the thermostat housing gasket, oil filter base gasket, .... ....
Do the suggested tests for cylinder head problems and move from there.
If it ain't broke... I fix it!
Even if you replace the failed head gasket, double check the cooling system and oil on your car so it doesn't end up failing again.
- llia
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks