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Thread: Full A/C rebuild

  1. #51
    Accord of the Year - 2007

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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    This stuff is compatible with r12 and 134a as well as both oils. They recommend removing any old refrigerant as it will reduce the performance of the enviro-safe. Can't wait to see what this stuff does with a full charge!
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)




  2. #52
    Accord of the Year - 2007

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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    I've had my ac filled with Enviro-safe for almost a year now. Still blows cold, and no leaks.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  3. #53
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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master View Post
    . It was very easy to install, says NOT to draw a vacuum,
    what they will mean, is that you dont want the low pressure side to pull a vacuum when the A/C is going.
    doing that increases the chances of a seal leaking and sucking in air.
    get a set of gauges, which will cost you guys in the states bout $2 and a vac pump. do as said earlier in the thread and vac the system out and leave it for a while.
    refill the system so that the low side drops to bout 5 psi when revving at say 3000 rpm.
    or if there is a sight glass on the receiver drier , fill until the bubble just about disappear when the compressor is going.
    thats how i do it, and it works alright.
    and i'm amazed you can get R12 over there, and that you'd run propane/butane in the A/C.

  4. #54

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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauntd ca3 View Post
    what they will mean, is that you dont want the low pressure side to pull a vacuum when the A/C is going.
    doing that increases the chances of a seal leaking and sucking in air.
    get a set of gauges, which will cost you guys in the states bout $2 and a vac pump. do as said earlier in the thread and vac the system out and leave it for a while.
    refill the system so that the low side drops to bout 5 psi when revving at say 3000 rpm.
    or if there is a sight glass on the receiver drier , fill until the bubble just about disappear when the compressor is going.
    thats how i do it, and it works alright.
    and i'm amazed you can get R12 over there, and that you'd run propane/butane in the A/C.
    You don't have to pull a vacuum because propane doesn't react with moisture like the other refrigerants. R12 turns to acid when exposed to moisture. Nor does propane require a complicated conversion, flushing, special oils, or anything else really. If it weren't so flammable, it would be the perfect mobile refrigerant because it's so effective and versatile. If you can make a bottle adapter to run it to your gauges, you can run propane straight from a BBQ bottle. BBQ gas works great in the 3g A/C, but not as well in systems that use an orifice tube, like my truck.

    A lot of us here run propane because our choices really boil down to propane A/C or no A/C. R12 is theoretically available if you can afford it. Of course, if you can afford R12, you can afford a DD a lot newer than a 3g. If you can't afford R12 and have a job that requires you not to be a sweaty, disheveled mess when you arrive in the morning, then you need propane A/C.

    If propane gives you the willies, difluoroethane is another choice I just learned about. It is not compatible with mineral oil, so you'll have to flush and add oil to the system before recharging. It is crazy cheap though and readily available. I might run it in the truck because propane keeps freezing the evaporator.
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


    1989 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe, 240k miles, MT swap, rear disc swap

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  5. #55
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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Honestly I'm not worried about the propain igniting. It would have to be exposed to a direct flame. At that point the gasoline is just as dangerous. For the most part I think it would just make a quick torch effect and run out. I've also been told that the propain/butane mix is easier on the compressor. It's readily available, and cheap to buy.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  6. #56


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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master View Post
    I've had my ac filled with Enviro-safe for almost a year now. Still blows cold, and no leaks.

    I put it in the 77 Lebaron I'm having good luck with it. its not quite as cold as Freeze 12 was but that was 8 years ago and the system is original. I might add in an oil charge just for a kick and see what happens.

    Whats the best oil for Enviro safe you think?
    1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
    336k miles running strong!
    Now running E85.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    From what I've read it does not make a difference so long as the oil is at the right level. I'm running r134 compatible oil (pag I believe), since they sell it as a 134 replacement.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  8. #58

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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master View Post
    Honestly I'm not worried about the propain igniting. It would have to be exposed to a direct flame. At that point the gasoline is just as dangerous.
    It has to be at the right atmospheric concentration (2.1-10.1%) and auto-ignition is at a fairly high temp (~900F). Under the hood, you're unlikely to achieve high enough concentrations for an explosion, especially while driving. Cabins are fairly well ventilated when in use, so concentrations are again unlikely to build up dangerously. Having said that, some researchers tried emptying an entire system charge into the cabin of a test car. They ignited the mix, expecting nothing and were surprised when the windows blew out, embedding chunks of glass in their faces. Obviously, there was a lot of risk under the specialized conditions of the experiment, which don't really correspond to actual conditions. I would say there is a real danger if you have a very big evaporator leak, sleep in the car overnight and then light a cigarette in the morning without opening the doors. Caveat emptor. In any other conditions, the risk is moderate at best. What doesn't often get mentioned in discussions of propane refrigerants is that R134 is also flammable, albeit under more unlikely circumstances (~1400F).

    Flammability isn't the only concern with refrigerants, of course. Toxicity is also a consideration and I'd rather work with propane than 134 based on toxicity.

    I've also been told that the propain/butane mix is easier on the compressor. It's readily available, and cheap to buy.
    BBQ gas is a LOT cheaper than any mixture and seems to work quite well with the expansion valve setup in the 3g. On orifice tube setups, straight propane works a little too well. The temps rise and fall so quickly that you get rapid cycling, which puts a heavy burden on the clutch. Butane mellows the propane out and you get less rapid cycling. IMHO, orifice tubes are an inferior design that look better on a cost accountant's spreadsheet than in the real world. For my truck, I would rather modify the orifice tube design to work better with a wider range of refrigerants than to fart around with over-priced, hard-to-find proprietary blends.

    Just my $0.02.
    Dr_Snooz

    "I like to take hammers, and just break stuff, just break stuff." - Beavis


    1989 Honda Accord LX-i Coupe, 240k miles, MT swap, rear disc swap

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  9. #59
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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    It has to be at the right atmospheric concentration (2.1-10.1%) and auto-ignition is at a fairly high temp (~900F). Under the hood, you're unlikely to achieve high enough concentrations for an explosion, especially while driving. Cabins are fairly well ventilated when in use, so concentrations are again unlikely to build up dangerously. Having said that, some researchers tried emptying an entire system charge into the cabin of a test car. They ignited the mix, expecting nothing and were surprised when the windows blew out, embedding chunks of glass in their faces. Obviously, there was a lot of risk under the specialized conditions of the experiment, which don't really correspond to actual conditions. I would say there is a real danger if you have a very big evaporator leak, sleep in the car overnight and then light a cigarette in the morning without opening the doors. Caveat emptor. In any other conditions, the risk is moderate at best. What doesn't often get mentioned in discussions of propane refrigerants is that R134 is also flammable, albeit under more unlikely circumstances (~1400F).

    Flammability isn't the only concern with refrigerants, of course. Toxicity is also a consideration and I'd rather work with propane than 134 based on toxicity.



    BBQ gas is a LOT cheaper than any mixture and seems to work quite well with the expansion valve setup in the 3g. On orifice tube setups, straight propane works a little too well. The temps rise and fall so quickly that you get rapid cycling, which puts a heavy burden on the clutch. Butane mellows the propane out and you get less rapid cycling. IMHO, orifice tubes are an inferior design that look better on a cost accountant's spreadsheet than in the real world. For my truck, I would rather modify the orifice tube design to work better with a wider range of refrigerants than to fart around with over-priced, hard-to-find proprietary blends.

    Just my $0.02.

    I couldn't agree anymore, I only play $3.00 a can for the enviro-safe stuff. I'd rather pay a little more, and help promote a company the is promoting the use of it. I think the freon industry is banking by using fear mongering.
    Complete repair manual <---- (click here)


  10. #60

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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    Ive learned so much about AC by reading this thread. usually when i get a car out it comes. The accord i bought just yesterday has working aircon which is a miracle

  11. #61
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    Re: Full A/C rebuild

    the stock system is pretty good on these with the denso setup. my 89 hatch had the crummy compressor, swapped it out for the denso. Note: when swapping the lines over take note of the locating pin, had to drill mine out. Once i Evac'd the system for an hour and charged it , i was able to get 32 out of the center dash at highway speed with outside temps around 80. Evacuating the system is really important, longer the better if your not replacing your dryer. It was a waste of my time when I found out the low side valve was leaking....

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