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Thread: Cooling fan resistance?

  1. #26
    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord View Post
    quote
    the alternator will use a lot of it's output trying to charge a badly drained battery, this will also toast your alternator, it's not made to do that,

    end quote

    everyone thinks a bigger battery will fix all kinds of stuff, when the power to run everything comes from the alternator.



    you are contradicting yourself. I understand your trying to help and its appreciated.

    in a high load situation its better to have a large battery(larger capacity) or possible multiple batteries. AKA a Diesel truck for instance has multiply batteries. Or if you use an electric winch on a Jeep two batteries are better than one.

    wp
    in this situation I don't think two batteries are needed, if he's needing to use two batteries for the amp or something, he needs to look into something like the legend alternator upgrade, if you are pulling more current on a regular basis then the alternator can produce, you are going to have issues, the proper way to fix that situation is a higher amp alternator, even if you are pulling near the rated output of the factory alternator all the time, it's going to cause the alternator to heat up and shorten it's life. A higher output alternator running the maximum of the factory one, is still not running at maximum power and will run cooler



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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    in this situation I don't think two batteries are needed, if he's needing to use two batteries for the amp or something, he needs to look into something like the legend alternator upgrade, if you are pulling more current on a regular basis then the alternator can produce, you are going to have issues, the proper way to fix that situation is a higher amp alternator, even if you are pulling near the rated output of the factory alternator all the time, it's going to cause the alternator to heat up and shorten it's life. A higher output alternator running the maximum of the factory one, is still not running at maximum power and will run cooler
    Well said, my friend. However, I do not have several hundred dollars for this said alternator, so I guess I am stuck saving up, if the transmission doesn't sh*t on me first. Btw, I am not a "everyone hears my music through the neighborhood" type of guy, I just wanted it to sound good. So I put in a 30 amp sound amplifier to run a small sub. It accompanies the music, doesn't overpower. I do not run it at it's full capacity. So it probably doesn't pull more than 15, max. Everything else is stock in the car except the stereo and some LED's I placed in the dash. They use less power anyway.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hondaaccorddrew View Post
    Well said, my friend. However, I do not have several hundred dollars for this said alternator, so I guess I am stuck saving up, if the transmission doesn't sh*t on me first. Btw, I am not a "everyone hears my music through the neighborhood" type of guy, I just wanted it to sound good. So I put in a 30 amp sound amplifier to run a small sub. It accompanies the music, doesn't overpower. I do not run it at it's full capacity. So it probably doesn't pull more than 15, max. Everything else is stock in the car except the stereo and some LED's I placed in the dash. They use less power anyway.
    you said something about running an amp that pulls 30 amps? thats half the capacity of the alternator, if you have the ac running and defroster on and blower going, it's already close to being maxed out, the legend alternator upgrade is done from junkyard parts, There is a thread somewhere on here, but it's something you can do on the cheap,and do it in a weekend. have you had the alternator output test done yet? most places will do it for free have you unbolted and checked all the ground connections yet? where a ground attaches to the body, unbolt it and use some sandpaper to sand the connection point to bare metal, bolt it back on and cover the connection with petroleum jelly,especially make sure the ground strap from engine to body is good, it often looks fine but isn't. The engine is insulated by the motor mounts, so that connection has to be good
    Last edited by lostforawhile; 05-23-2012 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Battery will not cause any issues while running, unless there is a problem elsewhere. Rule this guy out.

    Alternator was made to run all of these accessories at once. If you can upgrade it to compensate for old wiring and old accessories, great!

    I'm more than willing to bet you have a bad ground or other wiring problem elsewhere in the car.

    Turn on each accessory and measure the amp draw to figure out what's causing all of the problems. If none of them seem over the top, systematically replace your grounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter View Post
    its better to be retarded than advanced

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    you said something about running an amp that pulls 30 amps? thats half the capacity of the alternator, if you have the ac running and defroster on and blower going, it's already close to being maxed out, the legend alternator upgrade is done from junkyard parts, There is a thread somewhere on here, but it's something you can do on the cheap,and do it in a weekend. have you had the alternator output test done yet? most places will do it for free have you unbolted and checked all the ground connections yet? where a ground attaches to the body, unbolt it and use some sandpaper to sand the connection point to bare metal, bolt it back on and cover the connection with petroleum jelly,especially make sure the ground strap from engine to body is good, it often looks fine but isn't. The engine is insulated by the motor mounts, so that connection has to be good
    That does make sense. I see high output alternators advertised for $180 or so on the web, they claim to fit the 3rd gen accord carbed or FI without modification of the brackets. Is it cheaper than that? Just tell me what I may need or lead me to the post and I will look into it. I took the alternator off and had it tested. It failed horribly. It was even sqeaking and clunking when I turned it by hand. I also discovered that my drivers side cooling fan was reluctant to turn, so that's also toasted.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2drSE-i View Post
    Battery will not cause any issues while running, unless there is a problem elsewhere. Rule this guy out.

    Alternator was made to run all of these accessories at once. If you can upgrade it to compensate for old wiring and old accessories, great!

    I'm more than willing to bet you have a bad ground or other wiring problem elsewhere in the car.

    Turn on each accessory and measure the amp draw to figure out what's causing all of the problems. If none of them seem over the top, systematically replace your grounds.
    All of them seem over the top when the headlights are on at night at idle, including the brake lights. I am redoing my positive wires and my grounds. The ones to the alternator, starter, battery and fuse box. 4 gauge. Is that good enough or should I go to larger?

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hondaaccorddrew View Post
    All of them seem over the top when the headlights are on at night at idle, including the brake lights. I am redoing my positive wires and my grounds. The ones to the alternator, starter, battery and fuse box. 4 gauge. Is that good enough or should I go to larger?
    4 should be fine. Have you inspected the headlight wiring? Under the fuse-box as well? I'm spit-balling here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter View Post
    its better to be retarded than advanced

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2drSE-i View Post
    4 should be fine. Have you inspected the headlight wiring? Under the fuse-box as well? I'm spit-balling here.
    Yeah, everything is great. No pinching, burning, peeling, etc. The fuse box is clean and the connections underneath are still packed with grease from the factory. I can tell that someone has worked at the wiring under the wheel before, but I have no idea what was done. It's a jumbled mess looks like Honda would have done a better job. Except for ripping the dash board off, I have checked all the wiring, even under the carpet and in the fenders.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    FWIW, I went to the two auto stores here in town and had each run their little test. I got two different diagnoses for a charging problem and both were wrong. When the issue comes up again, I'll be buying my own diagnostic tools. I also had several tests done on the battery, which ended up being the problem. It passed every test of theirs with flying colors. I was preparing to buy a new battery outright when it finally failed a test and I got a warranty replacement. All that to say, I don't think those auto store tests are anything more than a novelty.
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hondaaccorddrew View Post
    That does make sense. I see high output alternators advertised for $180 or so on the web, they claim to fit the 3rd gen accord carbed or FI without modification of the brackets. Is it cheaper than that? Just tell me what I may need or lead me to the post and I will look into it. I took the alternator off and had it tested. It failed horribly. It was even sqeaking and clunking when I turned it by hand. I also discovered that my drivers side cooling fan was reluctant to turn, so that's also toasted.
    I can't seem to find the thread, anyone? I know it's a stock legend alternator, you upgrade the wire from the back of the alternator to the battery,which you've already done, 4 gauge is fine, I would have said 6, actually it should have been 6 factory, but the extra capacity in the four is a good thing., The main issue with the legend is some minor modifications to the brackets then it bolts right in. It's not difficult

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    If I remember correctly, with the AC running and clutch engaged, blower on of course, rear defroster on,wipers, and lights it was pulling right about 57 amps, this is a realistic condition if it's raining and you are trying to defrost the windows. The ac clutch alone pulls a bunch of amps. The alternator really is a little undersize for a car with ac and defroster,add an aftermarket stereo, and amp, and you can see the issue, Also while you are pulling near maximum current, and are idling, the alternator really isn't going to produce full current. does your idle kick up when the ac is on? it's supposed to to help with this issue. and don't forget while all that's running, both the radiator fan and condenser fan are both running too. Those two pull close to 25 amps

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    LXi User ecogabriel's Avatar
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    When I posted earlier about getting my lights dimmer when pressing the brake pedal I did not mean the slight drop pretty much everybody here has reported; what I meant was a sharp drop like you headlights have candles inside. The culprit was the battery's ground cable; I have had no problems after installing another ground cable. You would need running a ground cable from the batt to the engine, and another from the engine to the body; lost wrote about it earlier on.
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecogabriel View Post
    When I posted earlier about getting my lights dimmer when pressing the brake pedal I did not mean the slight drop pretty much everybody here has reported; what I meant was a sharp drop like you headlights have candles inside. The culprit was the battery's ground cable; I have had no problems after installing another ground cable. You would need running a ground cable from the batt to the engine, and another from the engine to the body; lost wrote about it earlier on.
    yea that braided POS needs to go, you can get a 4 gauge cable with crimped ends for under five bucks at walmart. it really doesn't matter where you connect it,as long as one end is solidly bolted to the block somewhere, or to something solidly bolted to the block, and the other end to a solid body bolt

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    legend alternator install notes

    https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51149

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Wow, that sounds interesting. I want it! So, I was a little confused on the top bracket part, how do you get it to mount and keep tension? What about the 3 prong plug at the back? And this is from a 95 Acura Legend?

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    FWIW, I went to the two auto stores here in town and had each run their little test. I got two different diagnoses for a charging problem and both were wrong. When the issue comes up again, I'll be buying my own diagnostic tools. I also had several tests done on the battery, which ended up being the problem. It passed every test of theirs with flying colors. I was preparing to buy a new battery outright when it finally failed a test and I got a warranty replacement. All that to say, I don't think those auto store tests are anything more than a novelty.
    Yeah when I went to the one this morning, they couldn't even load test it. Could only test the alternator's output voltage. Hell, I can do that with my multi-meter. Useless.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    I know this is my typical rant, but where are you buying your alternators from? I'm not sure what you could do to a good alternator that would make the bearings go bad in a few days. I suspect you are getting garbage alternators. If you are buying from O'Reilly, Autozone, whatever big name store, then it wouldn't be unheard of to go through a large number of alternators with each ending in a spectacular fireworks display. I would venture that this is your single biggest problem. Buy a good alternator like a Denso or Beck/Arnley from RockAuto.com.

    Also, the more load you put on an electric motor, the more amperage it will draw. If your cooling fan motor is locked, then it could be creating an enormous draw on the alternator. If it turns hard, replace it. However, a locked cooling fan would tend to blow fuses and burn up wires, not blow up alternators.

    In general, whenever I hear, "big stereo" and "electrical problems" in any context, I put them together. Especially if there's a haywire mess under the dash, you should view the stereo with some suspicion. If it were my car, I would disconnect everything stereo related until you get the situation under control. Slowly re-connect one piece at a time until you get a big explosion. That will tell you where your problem is.

    Grounds are always a good thing to check, but usually when people have bad grounds around here, they tend to have a lot of small, inexplicable, electrical gremlins, like dimming lights and flickering stereos. Alternator explosions are a lot less likely in that situation.

    I know you say you are going through alternators, but how are you determining that? Is it just from a light on the dash or how exactly? What are your other symptoms?
    Last edited by Dr_Snooz; 05-24-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    I know this is my typical rant, but where are you buying your alternators from? I'm not sure what you could do to a good alternator that would make the bearings go bad in a few days. I suspect you are getting garbage alternators. If you are buying from O'Reilly, Autozone, whatever big name store, then it wouldn't be unheard of to go through a large number of alternators with each ending in a spectacular fireworks display. I would venture that this is your single biggest problem. Buy a good alternator like a Denso or Beck/Arnley from RockAuto.com.

    Also, the more load you put on an electric motor, the more amperage it will draw. If your cooling fan motor is locked, then it could be creating an enormous draw on the alternator. If it turns hard, replace it. However, a locked cooling fan would tend to blow fuses and burn up wires, not blow up alternators.

    In general, whenever I hear, "big stereo" and "electrical problems" in any context, I put them together. Especially if there's a haywire mess under the dash, you should view the stereo with some suspicion. If it were my car, I would disconnect everything stereo related until you get the situation under control. Slowly re-connect one piece at a time until you get a big explosion. That will tell you where your problem is.

    Grounds are always a good thing to check, but usually when people have bad grounds around here, they tend to have a lot of small, inexplicable, electrical gremlins, like dimming lights and flickering stereos. Alternator explosions are a lot less likely in that situation.

    I know you say you are going through alternators, but how are you determining that? Is it just from a light on the dash or how exactly? What are your other symptoms?
    Well as of now, NOTHING is hooked up to the car, thye battery is undone. I have unplugged the wiring harness on the stereo and the wire to the amp. I'll go through my history of alternators with you. My first one blew out when I started the car in June of 2009, a few months after I got it. There were no symptoms. I started the car, it went to high idle, I heard a clink, and that was it. Replaced it with an O'Reilly alternator with a two year warranty. Two years later, right after the warranty expired, the other one went out partially. It would still charge, but it wouldn't supply power to the choke heater. Turns out the choke heater shorted and toasted it. I learned that with the help of lostforawhile when I toasted my replacement alternator in 30 mins. After fixing the short, I replaced it with my most recently fried one. This one went out like the first did. Except I was accelerating. The engine reved quite high because of the change in load (or no load on the belts). Keep in mind my stereo was in STANDBY, the amp wasn't getting it's signal, so it was switched off. When in standby, the screen just shows the time. All my accesories with an overload protection turned off, (stereo, fan, gagues, AC buttons) for about 5 seconds. When it all came back on, the system acted like it'd just started up. The seat belt light was beeping, the door lights came on then off like startup, the oil light came on and went away (since the engine was already on) and the battery light remained on. I drove home without an alternator. It's nice that even these older components have an overload protection that cuts all power till it goes away. All of these have been replaced with Ultima alternators from O'Reilly. My new replacement is Autolite, I have never had experience with these, but it's also a reman with lifetime.
    Last edited by hondaaccorddrew; 05-24-2012 at 08:55 AM.

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    I know my blower fan pulls 12.5 amps full speed warmed up. It's original so I would guess its on the high side.

    I guess good luck. I hope it works out for you.

    Ill try and check the full load and start amp draw as well but without you being able to test yours it won't help much.



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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hondaaccorddrew View Post
    Well as of now, NOTHING is hooked up to the car, thye battery is undone. I have unplugged the wiring harness on the stereo and the wire to the amp. I'll go through my history of alternators with you. My first one blew out when I started the car in June of 2009, a few months after I got it. There were no symptoms. I started the car, it went to high idle, I heard a clink, and that was it. Replaced it with an O'Reilly alternator with a two year warranty. Two years later, right after the warranty expired, the other one went out partially. It would still charge, but it wouldn't supply power to the choke heater. Turns out the choke heater shorted and toasted it. I learned that with the help of lostforawhile when I toasted my replacement alternator in 30 mins. After fixing the short, I replaced it with my most recently fried one. This one went out like the first did. Except I was accelerating. The engine reved quite high because of the change in load (or no load on the belts). Keep in mind my stereo was in STANDBY, the amp wasn't getting it's signal, so it was switched off. When in standby, the screen just shows the time. All my accesories with an overload protection turned off, (stereo, fan, gagues, AC buttons) for about 5 seconds. When it all came back on, the system acted like it'd just started up. The seat belt light was beeping, the door lights came on then off like startup, the oil light came on and went away (since the engine was already on) and the battery light remained on. I drove home without an alternator. It's nice that even these older components have an overload protection that cuts all power till it goes away. All of these have been replaced with Ultima alternators from O'Reilly. My new replacement is Autolite, I have never had experience with these, but it's also a reman with lifetime.
    try to get a higher end nappa one,they have the standard part and the more expensive part, i went through a bunch of them until I got one, I ended up selling it to someone on here years later still good, I switched to a civic alternator so I could put the alternator where the AC compressor was, or I would still have it

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    try to get a higher end nappa one,they have the standard part and the more expensive part, i went through a bunch of them until I got one, I ended up selling it to someone on here years later still good, I switched to a civic alternator so I could put the alternator where the AC compressor was, or I would still have it
    That would be me I guess.... and the alternator with the purple paint band still working good (I did not remove the paint... quite lazy). I replaced the battery ground though.

    MY alternator went up in smoke literally: started the car, smell something strange, turned it off. Pop hood open, look at the thing... smelled but nothing looked strange. Started again, and there we go the alt. smoking (it was a Honda reman.).
    If it ain't broke... I fix it!

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecogabriel View Post
    That would be me I guess.... and the alternator with the purple paint band still working good (I did not remove the paint... quite lazy). I replaced the battery ground though.

    MY alternator went up in smoke literally: started the car, smell something strange, turned it off. Pop hood open, look at the thing... smelled but nothing looked strange. Started again, and there we go the alt. smoking (it was a Honda reman.).
    that was a good alternator I think I paid around 130 or so for it, it never let me down. the purple can never be removed,if removed it grows back

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hondaaccorddrew View Post
    I heard a clink, and that was it......It would still charge, but it wouldn't supply power to the choke heater.....All my accesories with an overload protection turned off, (stereo, fan, gagues, AC buttons) for about 5 seconds. When it all came back on, the system acted like it'd just started up. The seat belt light was beeping, the door lights came on then off like startup, the oil light came on and went away (since the engine was already on) and the battery light remained on. I drove home without an alternator.
    I guess I'm asking how you are diagnosing these failed alternators. If I hear a clink in my engine bay, that doesn't generally lead me to believe I've lost an alternator. What other diagnostics did you do to determine that the alternator was bad? Generally, a bad alternator will give you a battery light on the dash. You confirm it by testing output voltage and taking the alternator in for a load test. Again, if my choke heater wasn't working, a bad alternator wouldn't be my first thought. I'm just wondering if the alternators are being blamed for more general wiring issues. Have you considered installing a voltmeter in the dash so you can keep an eye on what's happening with the electrical system?
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    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    I guess I'm asking how you are diagnosing these failed alternators. If I hear a clink in my engine bay, that doesn't generally lead me to believe I've lost an alternator. What other diagnostics did you do to determine that the alternator was bad? Generally, a bad alternator will give you a battery light on the dash. You confirm it by testing output voltage and taking the alternator in for a load test. Again, if my choke heater wasn't working, a bad alternator wouldn't be my first thought. I'm just wondering if the alternators are being blamed for more general wiring issues. Have you considered installing a voltmeter in the dash so you can keep an eye on what's happening with the electrical system?
    I know he had a short in a choke coil, that would take out the voltage regulator,since it provides the 12 volts out to operate it,but I'm not sure on the other stuff yet

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    Re: Cooling fan resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz View Post
    I guess I'm asking how you are diagnosing these failed alternators. If I hear a clink in my engine bay, that doesn't generally lead me to believe I've lost an alternator. What other diagnostics did you do to determine that the alternator was bad? Generally, a bad alternator will give you a battery light on the dash. You confirm it by testing output voltage and taking the alternator in for a load test. Again, if my choke heater wasn't working, a bad alternator wouldn't be my first thought. I'm just wondering if the alternators are being blamed for more general wiring issues. Have you considered installing a voltmeter in the dash so you can keep an eye on what's happening with the electrical system?
    Well, the choke heater shorted out to ground, and since it connects directly to the pigtail on the alternator, it toasted the replacement in 30 seconds. I posted about it a few months ago and I got diagnostic help from lostforawhile and determined the choke heater was useless, also learned a thing or two about how the diagnostic system works with the battery light. The other alternator would also cause the battery lamp to flicker and come on and off with acceleration. Since I have gotten so good at removing them, I take them off once I get a light and have them tested. The machine that tests them checks for grounds, checks the diodes, load tests it at variable RMP, and does a voltage check under the load. They are always failing when I take them in. I have them do the same thing to the replacement to make sure it works before I do the work of putting it in. I pull it through the passenger side I would love to have a voltmeter in the dash! Never looked into how much they cost. I also wouldn't wanna damage anything in the dash to put it in, I like to keep her looking as much stock as possible. My interior looks amazing still.

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