Cooling fan resistance?

[Oldblueaccord]

I am with you on this one. It's not labled in the system either. After pulling the 70 amp, it cuts off the blower.

Check that plug on the blower its on the passenger side there. Mines was partially melted and the motor alone pulled 22 amps.

wp

[hondaaccorddrew]

Check that plug on the blower its on the passenger side there. Mines was partially melted and the motor alone pulled 22 amps.

wp

The motor has been recently replaced 2007. The plugs are in perfect condition. The wires do get a little hot when the motor is ran on high for a while, but no melting.

[lostforawhile]

for one thing get rid of the deep cycle it's not meant to be charged by an alternator and is hard on the alternator, the other thing is when there is a lot of electrical load, it won't charge fast enough to keep up,this also loads the alternator. there is one more unfused item,that's the starter, you could have a parasitic draw through the starter solenoid from the starter, you mentioned something about a click then an alternator failed,the starter wire is so large it could have a lot of amps flowing through it, and never get hot. go to one of those mentioned automotive electrical places, have an alternator output test done,also have them check your entire system for parasitic draw, with everything off you should be drawing milliamps. if there is a large current draw have them check the starter for it pulling amps. The click noise makes me wonder. If you were here I could have this figured out in a few minutes, but i can't hook my gear to your car over the net. first get rid of the deep cycle. Another job of the battery is to act as a load on the alternator and keep the voltage under control, a deep cycle won't do this properly, this could be the entire issue

[Dr_Snooz]

Ditto on the deep cycle. You could have a massively oversized battery in the car. Since it's been deeply discharged, it is sulfated and is likely drawing an enormous load just trying to charge. Lose it and put the right battery in the car. I'm on my third Optima now, so I'm pretty much all about buying cheap and replacing often. The Optima's are too heavy anyway. You're putting a 20# chunk of lead in the far front corner of the car. It does nothing for handling.

[lostforawhile]

Ditto on the deep cycle. You could have a massively oversized battery in the car. Since it's been deeply discharged, it is sulfated and is likely drawing an enormous load just trying to charge. Lose it and put the right battery in the car. I'm on my third Optima now, so I'm pretty much all about buying cheap and replacing often. The Optima's are too heavy anyway. You're putting a 20# chunk of lead in the far front corner of the car. It does nothing for handling.

the optimas are junk since they started making them in Mexico, there are thousands of complaints, apparently there was a huge screwup in making them and the bad ones continued to be sold and the warranties weren't honored, the hamb had a thread to optima with nothing but complaints about their batteries

[hondaaccorddrew]

for one thing get rid of the deep cycle it's not meant to be charged by an alternator and is hard on the alternator, the other thing is when there is a lot of electrical load, it won't charge fast enough to keep up,this also loads the alternator. there is one more unfused item,that's the starter, you could have a parasitic draw through the starter solenoid from the starter, you mentioned something about a click then an alternator failed,the starter wire is so large it could have a lot of amps flowing through it, and never get hot. go to one of those mentioned automotive electrical places, have an alternator output test done,also have them check your entire system for parasitic draw, with everything off you should be drawing milliamps. if there is a large current draw have them check the starter for it pulling amps. The click noise makes me wonder. If you were here I could have this figured out in a few minutes, but i can't hook my gear to your car over the net. first get rid of the deep cycle. Another job of the battery is to act as a load on the alternator and keep the voltage under control, a deep cycle won't do this properly, this could be the entire issue

I wish I had some tools like yours then, man. I passed electronics class in a local tech college. But they had tools that I DO NOT have. I am thinking on doing a load test too. Getting a meter that does ten or twenty amps and hooking it in series with the car. Making sure everything is off and the fuses are in and doing the test. I have never came out to a dead battery though. I am getting a new battery and seeing what happens. Just an idea though. Would aluminum ends on the wire hook ups instead of copper cause more resistance? The actual wire material in the wire is copper, but the terminals are aluminum.

[lostforawhile]

I wish I had some tools like yours then, man. I passed electronics class in a local tech college. But they had tools that I DO NOT have. I am thinking on doing a load test too. Getting a meter that does ten or twenty amps and hooking it in series with the car. Making sure everything is off and the fuses are in and doing the test. I have never came out to a dead battery though. I am getting a new battery and seeing what happens. Just an idea though. Would aluminum ends on the wire hook ups instead of copper cause more resistance? The actual wire material in the wire is copper, but the terminals are aluminum.

what terminals are aluminum the battery terminals? I've never even seen an aluminum battery terminal, I would think the sulfuric acid from the battery would turn them to dust quickly

[hondaaccorddrew]

what terminals are aluminum the battery terminals? I've never even seen an aluminum battery terminal, I would think the sulfuric acid from the battery would turn them to dust quickly

The new ones I put in the car. The grounds and everything have aluminum terminals on the ends, not copper.

[hondaaccorddrew]

Well, I took the battery in for load testing and it showed good. The cranking and output current was within range with the stickers on the battery. 600 cranking amps. Should i still replace it?

[lostforawhile]

The new ones I put in the car. The grounds and everything have aluminum terminals on the ends, not copper.

those need to go, aluminum will corrode and develop high resistance between the steel body and aluminum terminal, where did you even find aluminum ends are you sure they aren't just coated with something? if the battery is a deep cycle it needs to go, a deep cycle has no place in your electrical system, like I mentioned before they have electrical characteristics not compatible with an alternator

[hondaaccorddrew]

those need to go, aluminum will corrode and develop high resistance between the steel body and aluminum terminal, where did you even find aluminum ends are you sure they aren't just coated with something? if the battery is a deep cycle it needs to go, a deep cycle has no place in your electrical system, like I mentioned before they have electrical characteristics not compatible with an alternator

I am positive that they are aluminum terminals. 4ga copper wire with aluminum terminals. That's all that was at the local stores in my area. I guess I will be buying copper ends an putting them on. I will do as suggested with the battery and will keep posted with my results. Oh, and have you had with luck on engine grounds? Can it be placed somewhere else besides on with the valve cover?

[lostforawhile]

I am positive that they are aluminum terminals. 4ga copper wire with aluminum terminals. That's all that was at the local stores in my area. I guess I will be buying copper ends an putting them on. I will do as suggested with the battery and will keep posted with my results. Oh, and have you had with luck on engine grounds? Can it be placed somewhere else besides on with the valve cover?

you can put an engine ground anywhere on the block as long as it's bolted solid to the block, every store I've ever seen has normal battery terminals, even walmart carries batteries cables, they are probably cad plated steel or something, I've been doing this electrical stuff for a long time, and I've yet to see an aluminum terminal,the sulfuric acid fumes that seep up from around the terminals would just destroy it in no time

[lostforawhile]

oh for the record the blower motor fuse is fuse 22 40 amps in the under hood fuse box, dumb dumb design, every other heavy amperage circuit in the car has a relay, does the blower? nope it's pulling 40 amps straight through the key switch, how difficult would it have been to design another relay into that fuse box? the fuse is already there. the speed is controlled by switching resistors into the ground side, I know I already replaced my key switch with heavy duty relays so it's not an issue for me, but it's an easy fix and may be the reason the switch burns out on that contact

[hondaaccorddrew]

oh for the record the blower motor fuse is fuse 22 40 amps in the under hood fuse box, dumb dumb design, every other heavy amperage circuit in the car has a relay, does the blower? nope it's pulling 40 amps straight through the key switch, how difficult would it have been to design another relay into that fuse box? the fuse is already there. the speed is controlled by switching resistors into the ground side, I know I already replaced my key switch with heavy duty relays so it's not an issue for me, but it's an easy fix and may be the reason the switch burns out on that contact

Could this be causing my problem? If so, tell me how to look at these contacts to determine if they are shorting or not connecting well of you'd be so nice. The positive wire that runs the fans and the blower is the one I was tracing fault to ground on. If it connects to the ignition that would make sense. You're right, dumb design.

[hondaaccorddrew]

you can put an engine ground anywhere on the block as long as it's bolted solid to the block, every store I've ever seen has normal battery terminals, even walmart carries batteries cables, they are probably cad plated steel or something, I've been doing this electrical stuff for a long time, and I've yet to see an aluminum terminal,the sulfuric acid fumes that seep up from around the terminals would just destroy it in no time

Well. Saying you're right and the terminals are just played steel, would that cause resistance enough to make the alternator burn up?

[lostforawhile]

Well. Saying you're right and the terminals are just played steel, would that cause resistance enough to make the alternator burn up?

no not at all, plated terminals are fine, I do know running a deep cycle could, I had a couple of alternators do the no charge at idle thing too, I ended up getting a better alternator that worked right

[lostforawhile]

you would never run an aluminum electrical terminal with a steel body, the current running through it combined with two dissimilar metals would cause galvanic corrosion to eat through the body in a short time. The only aluminum terminals i've ever heard of are on extremely expensive exotic cars with aluminum frames, even then most of the ground terminals use that special compound to prevent the corrosion

[hondaaccorddrew]

no not at all, plated terminals are fine, I do know running a deep cycle could, I had a couple of alternators do the no charge at idle thing too, I ended up getting a better alternator that worked right

Okay. Well if this doesn't work, I have decieded that I am going to do the Legend upgrade and just go from there. It will put out enough current to stop popping the damn things.

[Oldblueaccord]

oh for the record the blower motor fuse is fuse 22 40 amps in the under hood fuse box, dumb dumb design, every other heavy amperage circuit in the car has a relay, does the blower? nope it's pulling 40 amps straight through the key switch, how difficult would it have been to design another relay into that fuse box? the fuse is already there. the speed is controlled by switching resistors into the ground side, I know I already replaced my key switch with heavy duty relays so it's not an issue for me, but it's an easy fix and may be the reason the switch burns out on that contact

Thank you. yeah on that size wire,16 guage im guessing not really a great idea.

wp

[Oldblueaccord]

I am positive that they are aluminum terminals. 4ga copper wire with aluminum terminals. That's all that was at the local stores in my area. I guess I will be buying copper ends an putting them on. I will do as suggested with the battery and will keep posted with my results. Oh, and have you had with luck on engine grounds? Can it be placed somewhere else besides on with the valve cover?

Should really be lead terminal ends. the metal will be very soft.


http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet...06073/image/4/ sorry can embed pics at work.

I think there should be two other grounds factory besides the valve cover. The valve cover alone is not enough. Follow the battery ground and see where it goes it might goto the starter hold down bolt.


Battery sounds fine so far to me. I use Optima's(yellow tops) and deep cell (starting) batteries myself no problems. Not trying to confuse anything. I think you know the problem with charging them from dead is there have low internal resistance.

wp

[Dr_Snooz]

Battery sounds fine so far to me.

I think he's working with a sulfated deep cycle battery that he salvaged from an old RV. I know people can and do use deep cycle batteries for starting. Whether that's a wise practice, I'll let you and Lost debate because I don't honestly know. My brother used a deep cycle in his Oldsmobile years ago and it seemed to be fine. What I will say is that at this stage, the battery is a big unknown. We're not sure how old it is or how it was used in its prior life. We do know that it's been deeply discharged at least once, so it is sulfated without question. If it's older and the RV sat a lot, it could be badly sulfated. A sulfated battery will draw a lot of current and never fully charge. I know that my last red top Optima was sulfated and created a low voltage situation in the Honda. I took the battery in at least four times to be charged and tested and they assured me it was fine each time. Replacing the alternator did nothing to help. Finally on the last test, the battery gave a fault of some kind and they replaced it on warranty for me. That fixed the problem. I guess a rough test of the sulfation level would be to put the battery on a charger overnight and then measure the resting voltage in the morning. Be advised, however, that my bad Optima put out 12.4-12.7v at rest, which is well within the normal range. Anyway, while I'm not necessarily worried about deep cycle batteries in general, I'm not convinced that this deep cycle is not causing his problems, especially if it's very large or heavy duty, badly sulfated and sucking up lots of current trying to charge. There are relatively cheap ($25) desulfators you can buy on eBay. I have one and it wires in parallel with the battery charger. It does seem to have helped on at least one battery. Maybe the OP wants to do that instead and see if it works. It's up to him.

If this is genuinely a current draw problem, then there should be some confirming indicators: the bad component should be getting hot, wires going to the bad component should be showing signs of stress (discoloring and/or melting) and possibly smelling, the alternator itself should be getting very hot and probably smelling or smoking. If there isn't any of this, then I would tend to suspect that the alternator itself is bad.

The only other real possibility I can think of is that the wires going to the alternator itself, or the connectors at the alternator, are corroded and causing too much resistance and heat and cooking the alternators. That's kind of a long shot though.

[2drSE-i]

I think he's working with a sulfated deep cycle battery that he salvaged from an old RV. I know people can and do use deep cycle batteries for starting. Whether that's a wise practice, I'll let you and Lost debate because I don't honestly know. My brother used a deep cycle in his Oldsmobile years ago and it seemed to be fine. What I will say is that at this stage, the battery is a big unknown. We're not sure how old it is or how it was used in its prior life. We do know that it's been deeply discharged at least once, so it is sulfated without question. If it's older and the RV sat a lot, it could be badly sulfated. A sulfated battery will draw a lot of current and never fully charge. I know that my last red top Optima was sulfated and created a low voltage situation in the Honda. I took the battery in at least four times to be charged and tested and they assured me it was fine each time. Replacing the alternator did nothing to help. Finally on the last test, the battery gave a fault of some kind and they replaced it on warranty for me. That fixed the problem. I guess a rough test of the sulfation level would be to put the battery on a charger overnight and then measure the resting voltage in the morning. Be advised, however, that my bad Optima put out 12.4-12.7v at rest, which is well within the normal range. Anyway, while I'm not necessarily worried about deep cycle batteries in general, I'm not convinced that this deep cycle is not causing his problems, especially if it's very large or heavy duty, badly sulfated and sucking up lots of current trying to charge. There are relatively cheap ($25) desulfators you can buy on eBay. I have one and it wires in parallel with the battery charger. It does seem to have helped on at least one battery. Maybe the OP wants to do that instead and see if it works. It's up to him.

99% of the time, the batteries in RVs (and boats for that matter) are dual purpose, starting/deep cycle batteries. Unless he is using a true deep cycle (IE golfcart or electric motor battery) it will be fine. As for sulfation, if it is truly sulfated, there is no getting it back. These "De-sulfators" do nothing but use ultrasound to vibrate off some of the sulfation, and all that does is knock it into the electrolyte. You'll gain some amperage back, but really not enough to make much of a difference. The only true solution to sulfation is to maintain the battery and not allow it to happen.

Also, Optima's (and other AGM or Gel batteries) will not, and cannot sulfate. They degrade over time, but sulfation is caused by the oxidation of the lead plates in a battery, which can't happen in Gel batteries because the electrolyte level can never drop.

EDIT:

I can get into proper maintenance of batteries if requested. I've become a bit of an expert in the field LOL

[hondaaccorddrew]

I think he's working with a sulfated deep cycle battery that he salvaged from an old RV. I know people can and do use deep cycle batteries for starting. Whether that's a wise practice, I'll let you and Lost debate because I don't honestly know. My brother used a deep cycle in his Oldsmobile years ago and it seemed to be fine. What I will say is that at this stage, the battery is a big unknown. We're not sure how old it is or how it was used in its prior life. We do know that it's been deeply discharged at least once, so it is sulfated without question. If it's older and the RV sat a lot, it could be badly sulfated. A sulfated battery will draw a lot of current and never fully charge. I know that my last red top Optima was sulfated and created a low voltage situation in the Honda. I took the battery in at least four times to be charged and tested and they assured me it was fine each time. Replacing the alternator did nothing to help. Finally on the last test, the battery gave a fault of some kind and they replaced it on warranty for me. That fixed the problem. I guess a rough test of the sulfation level would be to put the battery on a charger overnight and then measure the resting voltage in the morning. Be advised, however, that my bad Optima put out 12.4-12.7v at rest, which is well within the normal range. Anyway, while I'm not necessarily worried about deep cycle batteries in general, I'm not convinced that this deep cycle is not causing his problems, especially if it's very large or heavy duty, badly sulfated and sucking up lots of current trying to charge. There are relatively cheap ($25) desulfators you can buy on eBay. I have one and it wires in parallel with the battery charger. It does seem to have helped on at least one battery. Maybe the OP wants to do that instead and see if it works. It's up to him.

If this is genuinely a current draw problem, then there should be some confirming indicators: the bad component should be getting hot, wires going to the bad component should be showing signs of stress (discoloring and/or melting) and possibly smelling, the alternator itself should be getting very hot and probably smelling or smoking. If there isn't any of this, then I would tend to suspect that the alternator itself is bad.

The only other real possibility I can think of is that the wires going to the alternator itself, or the connectors at the alternator, are corroded and causing too much resistance and heat and cooking the alternators. That's kind of a long shot though.

The terminals are clean, I used light sand paper to shine them right up. As for the battery, it is two years old. But it did sit when it was dead for about 6 months, so no doubt that it is deeply sulfated. It is a start/deep cycle. I still own the motor home they came out of, all the batteries in it (3 total) have since been replaced. So I would be okay to put a new deep cycle in? They come with screw on terminals, those are handy to have. I redid my grounds, and I put a 4ga wire in addition to the stock wire from the alternator terminals. The stock is still mounted to the fuse box and the new one goes directly onto the battery using the screw terminal. The grounds were replaced also with 4ga. Being honest, when I went to start the car, it seemed to have less starting power than before I did the wiring. Everything is tight too. It seems to me that I have MORE resistance with the larger wiring than with the smaller.

[hondaaccorddrew]

Should really be lead terminal ends. the metal will be very soft.


http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet...06073/image/4/ sorry can embed pics at work.

I think there should be two other grounds factory besides the valve cover. The valve cover alone is not enough. Follow the battery ground and see where it goes it might goto the starter hold down bolt.


Battery sounds fine so far to me. I use Optima's(yellow tops) and deep cell (starting) batteries myself no problems. Not trying to confuse anything. I think you know the problem with charging them from dead is there have low internal resistance.

wp

The only ground I have is to the engine, transmission from the body which is connected to the battery. There is no ground on the starter.

[ecogabriel]

The only ground I have is to the engine, transmission from the body which is connected to the battery. There is no ground on the starter.

you should have another ground from the valve cover to the front of the car, close to the radiator. I added another ground from the valve cover to where the driver's side engine mount is located (there are a couple of threaded holes there that may be used)