Cooling fan resistance?

[2drSE-i]

Something else I learned today.

Incandescent bulbs and LED's are the only kind of bulbs that the light output decreases over time. An LED's rating (40,000 hours or so) is the lifespan of the bulb until they have dimmed to a point that the human eye can perceive the difference. They will continue to burn on, even when they put out no perceivable light, or until the driver burns out.

An Incandescent bulb's rating (usually around 1,000 hours) is until it completely burns out. Around 800 hours and you will notice it is significantly dimmer, if your paying attention.

Halogen bulbs (about 25% more efficient than incandescent) and CFL's (about 75% more efficient) have no perceivable drop in light output. They have their flaws (halogens get really hot, burn out if you touch them, don't have a long service life, etc) (CFL's have to warm up, aren't dimmable usually, have mercury, etc) but they are worth it.


Here's some math for your enjoyment.

Average bulb use: 3 hours per day

60 watt incandescent bulb (60 watts per hour, thats how they are rated) x 3 hours per day x 365 days = 65700. Thats 65.7 KWH, or $7.22 per year, per bulb. (figuring .011 cents per KWH, which is the national average.) Also add .50 cents per bulb, considering you will replace these about once per year (we will say once every two years, for arguments sake, so .25 cents.)

Your at $7.47. PER bulb.

Switch to CFL's

60 watt EQU uses 13 Watts

13 X 3 X 365 = 14235, 14.235 KWH = $1.56. Factor in the price of the bulb, we will say $3 if you are paying way too much.

$4.56. But wait. You only have to replace these every 7 years (if you aren't buying them from Walmart, lowes or home depot) Divide that $3 by 7 ($0.42)

In reality, these only cost you about $1.98. EVEN IF you have to replace them every year, you come out ahead in energy costs.



Sorry, passionate about these. I wear my wife out looking at bulbs every where we go!

[lostforawhile]

Odysseys are the exception. They must be charged with Odysseys charger or you void the warranty (how they tell is beyond me...)

it doesn't have to be an odyssey charger it just has to keep the voltage below a certain point, if the charger voltage is too high the safety vent will open and the battery is ruined. I have a link somewhere to all of their technical data and charger requirements etc. the one i found is specifically made for AGM batteries and I watched it through a full charge cycle with meter connected. The charger never went above 14 volts

[hondaaccorddrew]

Well, that was a bust. The new battery took most of the load off the alternator. But with the headlights on at idle and the cooling fans cycling on and off, it doesn't have anything above battery voltage before starting when the car is at idle. 2,000 RMP and I have enough voltage. I bet you guys are sick of this post by now, but suggestions? New wiring? Nope. New battery (a real car battery), nope. An alternator that stinks like shit? Yes. No money, also yes. No one around me does load tests! Oh, yes! The charging light blinks rapidly above 3,000 RPM. My treat.

[2drSE-i]

I haven't looked at the initial trouble shooting in a few days, what is the voltage at the battery during idle? Increase engine speed to 2k and measure again. If it isn't at least 14 something is wrong with the ALT.

[lostforawhile]

Well, that was a bust. The new battery took most of the load off the alternator. But with the headlights on at idle and the cooling fans cycling on and off, it doesn't have anything above battery voltage before starting when the car is at idle. 2,000 RMP and I have enough voltage. I bet you guys are sick of this post by now, but suggestions? New wiring? Nope. New battery (a real car battery), nope. An alternator that stinks like shit? Yes. No money, also yes. No one around me does load tests! Oh, yes! The charging light blinks rapidly above 3,000 RPM. My treat.

the only thing that would cause a charge light to do that is a bad regulator inside of the alternator, the alternator switches the blue/white wire from positive to ground to make the lamp come on

[Dr_Snooz]

In reality, these only cost you about $1.98. EVEN IF you have to replace them every year, you come out ahead in energy costs.

You forgot to factor in the Zoloft prescription because the sickly green glow will make you clinically depressed.

Well, that was a bust. The new battery took most of the load off the alternator. But with the headlights on at idle and the cooling fans cycling on and off, it doesn't have anything above battery voltage before starting when the car is at idle. 2,000 RMP and I have enough voltage. I bet you guys are sick of this post by now, but suggestions? New wiring? Nope. New battery (a real car battery), nope. An alternator that stinks like shit? Yes. No money, also yes. No one around me does load tests! Oh, yes! The charging light blinks rapidly above 3,000 RPM. My treat.

I would guess you smoked the alternator trying to charge up that bad battery. Especially if it's been smelling. Take it in and ask them to replace it on warranty.

Again, we can only do so much guessing from where we are. There is a series of very good diagnostic troubleshooting procedures for the charging system detailed in the manual. You've spent a lot of money easter egging this thing already. You can keep spending money to replace parts and hoping, or buy the tools you need and fix the problem.

[hondaaccorddrew]

I haven't looked at the initial trouble shooting in a few days, what is the voltage at the battery during idle? Increase engine speed to 2k and measure again. If it isn't at least 14 something is wrong with the ALT.

14.21 at idle. Put on the AC, it stays. Headlights, it drops to 13.5. Defogger, AC, lights, it drops to 12.51 (battery voltage) and stays. If you have I in gear with the AC on, the voltage is 13.5. The slower it goes, the lesser the current output. To get the 14.21 volts back, you have to raise up to 2,000 RPM. But cannot have more than the AC and headlights. It has a crappy current output. Why would this be? Why are all my alternators so crappy at current output, especially at low RPM? When I disconnect the battery from the car while the engine is on, there is still a great deal of a gain in RMP and less load on the engine.

[hondaaccorddrew]

the only thing that would cause a charge light to do that is a bad regulator inside of the alternator, the alternator switches the blue/white wire from positive to ground to make the lamp come on

Yea. Go figure. POS.

[hondaaccorddrew]

You forgot to factor in the Zoloft prescription because the sickly green glow will make you clinically depressed.



I would guess you smoked the alternator trying to charge up that bad battery. Especially if it's been smelling. Take it in and ask them to replace it on warranty.

Again, we can only do so much guessing from where we are. There is a series of very good diagnostic troubleshooting procedures for the charging system detailed in the manual. You've spent a lot of money easter egging this thing already. You can keep spending money to replace parts and hoping, or buy the tools you need and fix the problem.

I got a brand new battery last night. Installed it this morning. And I have just gotten a new battery, new wiring, and new alternators. All that's needed. I have followed the electrical troubleshooting. Just dont have an ammeter to hook to the battery. I guess I should break down and get a good $130 one and bite the bullet. Cause it looks like I am SOL without one.

[Oldblueaccord]

14.21 at idle. Put on the AC, it stays. Headlights, it drops to 13.5. Defogger, AC, lights, it drops to 12.51 (battery voltage) and stays. If you have I in gear with the AC on, the voltage is 13.5. The slower it goes, the lesser the current output. To get the 14.21 volts back, you have to raise up to 2,000 RPM. But cannot have more than the AC and headlights. It has a crappy current output. Why would this be? Why are all my alternators so crappy at current output, especially at low RPM? When I disconnect the battery from the car while the engine is on, there is still a great deal of a gain in RMP and less load on the engine.

Well from my numbers these Orilleys alts may not be to good. I'm not getting steady voltage on mine either. I ran a bunch or errands yesterday, short stop and goes, with the AC fan on full after start up and my voltage would go under 13v. I'm thinking of adding a voltage gauge and taking my original one and getting the rebuilder here to fix it up. I never turned it in for the core I kinda know better with parts stores.

You really shouldn't pull the pos terminal with the car running.that can ruin the alt pretty quick. I know its an old school way of checking but I have had some bad results.

I guess the only things I can add is make sure the terminal are tight. If there original Honda ends the bolt can be bottomed out but the terminal not be tight. you'll be able to twist it off with your hand.

The power box under the hood I would look underneath it and all the connections there and pull each fuse and see if corrosion has damaged them.

I checked my ground from the battery and it runs right to the bracket that the clutch cable hooks to near the starter.


wp

[2drSE-i]

You forgot to factor in the Zoloft prescription because the sickly green glow will make you clinically depressed.

LOL. Fair enough. They do make them in Bright white and daylight as well. I HATE the softwhite ones. If you buy CFL's (Which i'm assuming, you won't )get at least 4100k's. Working and living in 2700k's can actually, literally make you lethargic and depressed.

Oh, and if you get migraines, avoid CFL's like the plague. They WILL aggravate and cause more headaches.


OK, seriously though, back on topic! It sounds to me like you have a bad alternator. Either roll the dice on another of the same, or take it back and upgrade. You may have to deal with another replacement since your broke, unfortunately.

[hondaaccorddrew]

LOL. Fair enough. They do make them in Bright white and daylight as well. I HATE the softwhite ones. If you buy CFL's (Which i'm assuming, you won't )get at least 4100k's. Working and living in 2700k's can actually, literally make you lethargic and depressed.

Oh, and if you get migraines, avoid CFL's like the plague. They WILL aggravate and cause more headaches.


OK, seriously though, back on topic! It sounds to me like you have a bad alternator. Either roll the dice on another of the same, or take it back and upgrade. You may have to deal with another replacement since your broke, unfortunately.

I guess this is why most psychologists recommend the 'happy light' for those that are depressed. However, insurance refuses to pay for it. I get migraines from fluorescent lights. The hertz is visible to my eye even though I do not see it myself most of the time. The 60 flashes a second kill me. School was a nightmare. I can't use computer screens with CFL bulbs in them either. Just LED.

On the alternator. I am saving up to buy a legend and get this underpowered BS out of the way. EBAY has brand new ones for $90, no core needed. Should I trust that?

[hondaaccorddrew]

Well from my numbers these Orilleys alts may not be to good. I'm not getting steady voltage on mine either. I ran a bunch or errands yesterday, short stop and goes, with the AC fan on full after start up and my voltage would go under 13v. I'm thinking of adding a voltage gauge and taking my original one and getting the rebuilder here to fix it up. I never turned it in for the core I kinda know better with parts stores.

You really shouldn't pull the pos terminal with the car running.that can ruin the alt pretty quick. I know its an old school way of checking but I have had some bad results.

I guess the only things I can add is make sure the terminal are tight. If there original Honda ends the bolt can be bottomed out but the terminal not be tight. you'll be able to twist it off with your hand.

The power box under the hood I would look underneath it and all the connections there and pull each fuse and see if corrosion has damaged them.

I checked my ground from the battery and it runs right to the bracket that the clutch cable hooks to near the starter.


wp

I hear ya. Every one I have had doesn't hold it's voltage under half of the load more or less part of the load that can be put on it. When I FIRST got the car, it didn't have that issue, it kept voltage under high current loads. I never had the lights dim when I stepped on the brakes. Now I do. Gotta be the alternators...

My fuse box looks almost brand new inside. I even pulled it out and looked at all the fuse connections. Everything is shiny new looking copper. Same with the under dash fuse box. Sigh.

It sounds like you have a manual transmission. Mine also bolts to the transmission. I should consider another ground somewhere.

When pulling the battery terminal off, the alternator seems to be RELIEVED that it's no longer charging the battery. The engine's RPM's raise slightly and it stops smelling funky after a minute or two of cooling down. I don't try to turn anything on. But it likes not having a battery. POS.

[lostforawhile]

if the alternator is smelling you have something major going on, and NEVER pull off a battery terminal while it's running, thats an old trick that used to be used on generators, it can ruin your alternator in a few seconds, it can also cause a huge voltage spike,upwards of 20 volts that can cook everything electronic in the car. Like I said if the charge light is doing something weird the positive or negative output of that wire is controlled directly by the regulator inside of the alternator, usually on the bad alternators it's either bad brushes or a bad regulator, the re builders often reuse the old regulators and often also use the existing brushes

[hondaaccorddrew]

if the alternator is smelling you have something major going on, and NEVER pull off a battery terminal while it's running, thats an old trick that used to be used on generators, it can ruin your alternator in a few seconds, it can also cause a huge voltage spike,upwards of 20 volts that can cook everything electronic in the car. Like I said if the charge light is doing something weird the positive or negative output of that wire is controlled directly by the regulator inside of the alternator, usually on the bad alternators it's either bad brushes or a bad regulator, the re builders often reuse the old regulators and often also use the existing brushes

Yea. And charge several hundred bucks for them. The alternator is trash, like the rest. I have no tools as no money. With neither, there probably isn't any more sense in troubleshooting. All talk, no action. I'll keep the terminals on from now on when it's running, my bad.

[hondaaccorddrew]

I am getting a clamp on meter later in the week from Amazon. It measures current up to 1,000 on AC and DC. When I put this clamp on my battery wire, how much current draw should I see at full load on this car?

[lostforawhile]

I am getting a clamp on meter later in the week from Amazon. It measures current up to 1,000 on AC and DC. When I put this clamp on my battery wire, how much current draw should I see at full load on this car?

the alternator is 63 amps if i remember so hopefully not more then that, what you need to look for is a draw with the car off

[hondaaccorddrew]

the alternator is 63 amps if i remember so hopefully not more then that, what you need to look for is a draw with the car off

Sounds like a plan. I am using the big one, cause the meter I have cannot do more than 10 amps and I do not wanna blow it if it has a parasitic draw of over that (not likely) but just in case.

[hondaaccorddrew]

Well, my battery light is back on again. I knew it would. But this time, it went out like the second one did. The choke heater doesn't get power (the blue/white) wire, but I have charging voltage, so I can at least drive it. If you restart the car, it goes away unless you go over 3k RPM. Is this the voltage regulator still, or should I look into whatever else is on the same circuit as this white/blue wire? It seems to be intermittent because I have troubleshooted the battery light before and it led to a bad choke heater. Which is replaced. Ideas? Could it be my solenoid computer under the driver seat?

[lostforawhile]

Well, my battery light is back on again. I knew it would. But this time, it went out like the second one did. The choke heater doesn't get power (the blue/white) wire, but I have charging voltage, so I can at least drive it. If you restart the car, it goes away unless you go over 3k RPM. Is this the voltage regulator still, or should I look into whatever else is on the same circuit as this white/blue wire? It seems to be intermittent because I have troubleshooted the battery light before and it led to a bad choke heater. Which is replaced. Ideas? Could it be my solenoid computer under the driver seat?

if the charge warning light is on the blue and white wire is at a negative state and the choke won't operate, when it's charging it's at a positive state and this powers the choke heater among other things, this is an internal regulator issue inside of the alternator

[hondaaccorddrew]

if the charge warning light is on the blue and white wire is at a negative state and the choke won't operate, when it's charging it's at a positive state and this powers the choke heater among other things, this is an internal regulator issue inside of the alternator

Alright. Thanks. I bet you have said that many times. The negative/positive switching. Like a chant.

[lostforawhile]

Alright. Thanks. I bet you have said that many times. The negative/positive switching. Like a chant.

Ok I just wanted you to understand why the choke isn't working when the charge light is on, a lot of people don't understand how it works at all

[hondaaccorddrew]

Ok I just wanted you to understand why the choke isn't working when the charge light is on, a lot of people don't understand how it works at all

It is a smart and well designed system. I whipped out the electronics manual and read it on the charging system and everything makes more sense.

[Oldblueaccord]

I am getting a clamp on meter later in the week from Amazon. It measures current up to 1,000 on AC and DC. When I put this clamp on my battery wire, how much current draw should I see at full load on this car?

I posted mine on post #58 I think.


wp

[ecogabriel]

About r-12 to r-134a retrofits, it is my understanding that the problem was that the PAG oil used with r-134a was incompatible with the RESIDUE of r-12 in suspension with the old oil. New PAGs (called double-end capped PAGs) do not have that problem, and in addition they do not absorb humidity.

See the Acura retrofit bulletin below

http://daliracing.com/v666-5/downloa...134a95-008.pdf

EDIT: I found a visual comparison of what happens when regular PAG oil is exposed to r-12

http://www.autofrost.com/hotshot/index.html

EDIT 2: I got the comparison of regular PAG vs. DEC (double-end capped) PAG; quite illustrative in terms of humidity absorption...

http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...threadid=17571