Cooling fan resistance?

[hondaaccorddrew]

I posted mine on post #58 I think.


wp

I saw that I am getting one like it, but 1000 amps DC+AC

[hondaaccorddrew]

About r-12 to r-134a retrofits, it is my understanding that the problem was that the PAG oil used with r-134a was incompatible with the RESIDUE of r-12 in suspension with the old oil. New PAGs (called double-end capped PAGs) do not have that problem, and in addition they do not absorb humidity.

See the Acura retrofit bulletin below

http://daliracing.com/v666-5/downloa...134a95-008.pdf

EDIT: I found a visual comparison of what happens when regular PAG oil is exposed to r-12

http://www.autofrost.com/hotshot/index.html

EDIT 2: I got the comparison of regular PAG vs. DEC (double-end capped) PAG; quite illustrative in terms of humidity absorption...

http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...threadid=17571

That's really nice information there! So, lesson learned. When doing an R-12 to 134a retrofit, get the DEC PAG oil, it won't turn into mud in your compressor if you don't get all the old oil out.

[Oldblueaccord]

OK heres what I have.

Battery at rest 12.78 volts this is after I drove home from work 28 miles.

Started up and got 12.76V with a -3 amp draw at just under 1000 rpms on the stock tach.. Not real happy with this.

Turned on everything I could lights (high) AC both fans,blower fan on full, rear defrost (it works) and got 12.26 V plus charging read 21 amps. Revving it up didnt seem to help.

After I shut off it went to 10 amps charge and 13.7 volts. This is a reman oreillys alt about 6 months old.



Turned off ignition off your looking at 45 amps full load old stuff old car old wires.


Sorry I ment post 56#
wp

[Oldblueaccord]

I wanted to add to draws that have been a problem to others is the headlight motors staying on all the time and possibly electric window motor jammed and on all the time.


wp

[hondaaccorddrew]

OK heres what I have.

Battery at rest 12.78 volts this is after I drove home from work 28 miles.

Started up and got 12.76V with a -3 amp draw at just under 1000 rpms on the stock tach.. Not real happy with this.

Turned on everything I could lights (high) AC both fans,blower fan on full, rear defrost (it works) and got 12.26 V plus charging read 21 amps. Revving it up didnt seem to help.

After I shut off it went to 10 amps charge and 13.7 volts. This is a reman oreillys alt about 6 months old.



Turned off ignition off your looking at 45 amps full load old stuff old car old wires.


Sorry I ment post 56#
wp

My numbers look a lot like this, but a little less. Battery rest at 12.51. Brand new battery. 14.2 at idle. 14.2 with AC on, NOT in gear. In gear, 13.7. It just gets worse and worse with each application. After I get everything on, I have 11.6 volts, no matter what RPM, even in gear.

"Old stuff, old car, old wires" is right. No argument there whatsoever.

[hondaaccorddrew]

I wanted to add to draws that have been a problem to others is the headlight motors staying on all the time and possibly electric window motor jammed and on all the time.


wp

I guess the only way to check this is to unplug these and see if there is a load change mostly?

[lostforawhile]

I guess the only way to check this is to unplug these and see if there is a load change mostly?

there is no stop so they would keep flipping.the motors rotate in one direction, whats a possibility is that the motors use dynamic braking to freeze in the correct position, if one of the headlight relays is hung up the motors could be stuck in dynamic braking using a lot of current

[hondaaccorddrew]

there is no stop so they would keep flipping.the motors rotate in one direction, whats a possibility is that the motors use dynamic braking to freeze in the correct position, if one of the headlight relays is hung up the motors could be stuck in dynamic braking using a lot of current

How would I go about testing this? Just pull the headlight relay and see if there is a load change?

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah try and isolate the suspect problem by pulling the fuse or unplugging the area.

I think you can just force them up with the manual switch on the dash and they wont pull power any more. But I never really tried and tested it.


Did you get you meter?


wp

[Dr_Snooz]

My numbers look a lot like this, but a little less. Battery rest at 12.51. Brand new battery. 14.2 at idle. 14.2 with AC on, NOT in gear. In gear, 13.7. It just gets worse and worse with each application. After I get everything on, I have 11.6 volts, no matter what RPM, even in gear.

"Old stuff, old car, old wires" is right. No argument there whatsoever.

The only number that looks bad there is the 11.6. When you say "everything on" what all are you referring to? What one single thing causes the biggest drop? Does the charge light come on when it hits this low voltage?

If you pull the #1 fuse in the dash fuse box, does it look like the fuse box has been hot? Are the wires discolored or is the plastic fuse box melted and deformed? Is the fuse itself melted? Is the fuse good?

Same question for the #8 fuse in the engine fuse box.

[Dr_Snooz]

Question for the other guys here: Drew really needs to load test his battery and alternator at this point. If it were me, I would go down to Harbor Freight and buy a carbon pile load tester, but there's a depression on and we're all trying to save our money. Is there a way he can get those components load tested properly without having to spend a lot of money? I'm reasonably certain that the Autozone crew will not be capable of doing a good test. Honestly, I'd put more faith in a coin toss. Can he take the parts to an auto electric shop? Will they do a proper load test to Honda spec? What would they charge?

[lostforawhile]

Question for the other guys here: Drew really needs to load test his battery and alternator at this point. If it were me, I would go down to Harbor Freight and buy a carbon pile load tester, but there's a depression on and we're all trying to save our money. Is there a way he can get those components load tested properly without having to spend a lot of money? I'm reasonably certain that the Autozone crew will not be capable of doing a good test. Honestly, I'd put more faith in a coin toss. Can he take the parts to an auto electric shop? Will they do a proper load test to Honda spec? What would they charge?

he already said there were a number of automotive electrical shops around him, I've been suggesting this to him through most of this thread, it doesn't cost much to have this test done. The alternator light acting up already tells me it's the regulator in the alternator, thats the only thing that can cause the light to act up

[hondaaccorddrew]

Yeah try and isolate the suspect problem by pulling the fuse or unplugging the area.

I think you can just force them up with the manual switch on the dash and they wont pull power any more. But I never really tried and tested it.


Did you get you meter?


wp

Yes, it is in the mail. I am excited! It should be a few more days. By the end of the week I will most likely be posting the results of current draws.

[hondaaccorddrew]

[QUOTE=Dr_Snooz;1097447]The only number that looks bad there is the 11.6. When you say "everything on" what all are you referring to? What one single thing causes the biggest drop? Does the charge light come on when it hits this low voltage?

If you pull the #1 fuse in the dash fuse box, does it look like the fuse box has been hot? Are the wires discolored or is the plastic fuse box melted and deformed? Is the fuse itself melted? Is the fuse good?

Same question for the #8 fuse in the engine fuse box.[/QUOTE

Everything on defined by EVERYTHING but the stereo (unplugged, and the amp removed from the car). Lights on, car in gear, brakes applied, defroster on, fan on high, with AC on) When I touch any wiring or the wiring bundles, nothing is warm after use. The AC motor wiring is slightly warm, but I suppose this is normal. No fuses in my car have ever been melted. The terminals on them are all clean and free of charring. There are no melted plugs. I am going to have my meter that measures AC and DC current up to 1000 amps, I am going to see how much current draw there is on the car with everything on.

[hondaaccorddrew]

he already said there were a number of automotive electrical shops around him, I've been suggesting this to him through most of this thread, it doesn't cost much to have this test done. The alternator light acting up already tells me it's the regulator in the alternator, thats the only thing that can cause the light to act up

Yes it is the only way. I did my homework on the electrical diagnostics manual, and you are 100% correct. It's gotten to the point to where if you let the car warm up to operating temp, the battery light stays off when you accelerate. It's cheaply made, and they still charge several hundred dollars for these rebuilds. I am attempting to do the Legend alternator upgrade. I just ignore the 4th red/white wire on the alternator plug mod, correct? I will take this broken alternator into a good electrical machine shop and have them quality rebuild it, and possibly buy a NEW regulator offline for it or let them put the new one that they have in, same with the Legend alternator if it gives me trouble. Which it shouldn't saying I am buying a brand new part.

[lostforawhile]

Yes it is the only way. I did my homework on the electrical diagnostics manual, and you are 100% correct. It's gotten to the point to where if you let the car warm up to operating temp, the battery light stays off when you accelerate. It's cheaply made, and they still charge several hundred dollars for these rebuilds. I am attempting to do the Legend alternator upgrade. I just ignore the 4th red/white wire on the alternator plug mod, correct? I will take this broken alternator into a good electrical machine shop and have them quality rebuild it, and possibly buy a NEW regulator offline for it or let them put the new one that they have in, same with the Legend alternator if it gives me trouble. Which it shouldn't saying I am buying a brand new part.

I hope this fixes it, I can't believe how much they charged for the rebuild I didn't pay nearly that much for the Nappa one and it's still going in it's new owners car. You will do much better to have the testing and rebuilds done at a shop, even if it costs as much as a rebuild, you get one done here with a warranty you can take back to the shop if needed. The legend is a good upgrade, I went to a 98 civic one because of the pulley matching the AC pulley groove, or I would have done the same, I should be able to find a higher output civic one easy. since you have the manual, check at the alternator plug and make sure you have voltage at both circuits tht are supposed to be hot with the key on, they should be hot and the warning light wire should be at ground with the engine off, get a test light, don't use the meter on this one, sometimes a digital meter will show voltage even though there is an issue stopping most of the current from flowing, such as a corroded connection or wire, you may see 12 volts at the meters high impedence, but very little current can flow in the circuit a 12 volt test light will show for certain that current is making it through.

[Dr_Snooz]

he already said there were a number of automotive electrical shops around him, I've been suggesting this to him through most of this thread

Yep. I think this is one for the shop.

[hondaaccorddrew]

I got my new meter, which measures current! Hooray!

Here's the results.

Battery voltage was 12.41 when starting out, car off.

3.7 amps at idle, 13.4 volts.

15.4 amps at idle with headlights on, 12.72 volts. All other accessories off.

15.1 amps at idle with rear defroster on, 12.73 volts. Other accessoreis off.

22 amps at idle with AC on, fan on HIGH, both condenser fans running. 12.4 volts. Other accessories off.

46 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle, 11.8 volts.

61 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle IN GEAR with brake pedal depressed, 11.6 volts.

I don't like the voltage. The alternator smelled like shit during the testing. Bad alternator, too much current draw, or a combo of both?

[lostforawhile]

I got my new meter, which measures current! Hooray!

Here's the results.

Battery voltage was 12.41 when starting out, car off.

3.7 amps at idle, 13.4 volts.

15.4 amps at idle with headlights on, 12.72 volts. All other accessories off.

15.1 amps at idle with rear defroster on, 12.73 volts. Other accessoreis off.

22 amps at idle with AC on, fan on HIGH, both condenser fans running. 12.4 volts. Other accessories off.

46 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle, 11.8 volts.

61 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle IN GEAR with brake pedal depressed, 11.6 volts.

I don't like the voltage. The alternator smelled like shit during the testing. Bad alternator, too much current draw, or a combo of both?

bad alternator, it's supposed to be designed to run all the factory accessories, did you check all the grounds? the alternator shouldn't smell, when it's over it's capacity the extra current simply is drawn from the battery, it shouldn't be dropping that much voltage with the headlights on, you need to double check all battery connections,the alternator connection, check the terminal in the underhood fuse box, the battery and alternator terminals, and al grounds,make sure none are missing, I mean unbolt each ground and make sure the metal under it is clean, bolt it back down and use vaseline over the terminals


stupid editing, can't even edit a post, you do have permission to perform this action bla bla bla

[lostforawhile]

remember your alternator runs the electrical system,voltage should be 13-14 volts with most loads, that voltage is way too low, the battery is probably not charging right,slowly running down and draining the alternator.

[hondaaccorddrew]

bad alternator, it's supposed to be designed to run all the factory accessories, did you check all the grounds? the alternator shouldn't smell, when it's over it's capacity the extra current simply is drawn from the battery, it shouldn't be dropping that much voltage with the headlights on, you need to double check all battery connections,the alternator connection, check the terminal in the underhood fuse box, the battery and alternator terminals, and al grounds,make sure none are missing, I mean unbolt each ground and make sure the metal under it is clean, bolt it back down and use vaseline over the terminals


stupid editing, can't even edit a post, you do have permission to perform this action bla bla bla

When I redid my grounds an positive wires, I cleaned everything. The new wires are 4ga. All my terminals in the fuse box are tight and clean. I was wondering high resistance too. I will recheck my grounds. I will look into getting the carbon pile load tester mentioned in an earlier post.

[hondaaccorddrew]

remember your alternator runs the electrical system,voltage should be 13-14 volts with most loads, that voltage is way too low, the battery is probably not charging right,slowly running down and draining the alternator.

Even though the battery is new? It is a Wal-Mart battery.

[lostforawhile]

Even though the battery is new? It is a Wal-Mart battery.

I'm not saying the battery is bad, the alternator isn't putting out enough current to keep the battery charged, so it runs down. If you aren't producing at least 13 volts the battery won't charge, your alternator is charging way out of spec under load. one of the standard tests is to run the car with the high beams on at idle, the voltage shouldn't drop more then a 1/10 of a volt or so when they are switched on,yours drops way down,your system is dropping to less then 13 volts with only a 15 amp draw,it might drop to slightly less then 13 with everything running,and it working normally, but not with a small draw like that have you ever checked the belt? I just assumed you had done basic checks, what kind of smell are you smelling?

[Oldblueaccord]

I got my new meter, which measures current! Hooray!

Here's the results.

Battery voltage was 12.41 when starting out, car off.

3.7 amps at idle, 13.4 volts.

15.4 amps at idle with headlights on, 12.72 volts. All other accessories off.

15.1 amps at idle with rear defroster on, 12.73 volts. Other accessoreis off.

22 amps at idle with AC on, fan on HIGH, both condenser fans running. 12.4 volts. Other accessories off.

46 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle, 11.8 volts.

61 amps full load (AC, fan on high, headlights, rear defroster) at idle IN GEAR with brake pedal depressed, 11.6 volts.

I don't like the voltage. The alternator smelled like shit during the testing. Bad alternator, too much current draw, or a combo of both?

rerun that test in order with the ignition OFF no charging. See what system is pulling alot. The 60 amps charging(running) I would say max your going to see out of a stock alt/reman.

Have fun with your new toy!

wp

EDIT I would like to see a battery fully charged,at rest, running 12.7 volts or higher.

[hondaaccorddrew]

I'm not saying the battery is bad, the alternator isn't putting out enough current to keep the battery charged, so it runs down. If you aren't producing at least 13 volts the battery won't charge, your alternator is charging way out of spec under load. one of the standard tests is to run the car with the high beams on at idle, the voltage shouldn't drop more then a 1/10 of a volt or so when they are switched on,yours drops way down,your system is dropping to less then 13 volts with only a 15 amp draw,it might drop to slightly less then 13 with everything running,and it working normally, but not with a small draw like that have you ever checked the belt? I just assumed you had done basic checks, what kind of smell are you smelling?

I would even prefer to keep it above 14 with it in idle at full load, since I am tired of everything dimming when I am stopped at a light. The smell smells like heated aluminum or melting solder mixed with hot stator windings (burning up motor smell). I am sure you know what I am talking about.