CA Smog Check Ignition Timing

[jzdude]

If I remember properly the smog check techs don't remove vacuum advance hoses and plug them to read the ignition timing. However, the manual says your supposed to.

Will it make a difference if I did the timing with the vacuum advance hoses plug vs not plugged?

[obd0driver]

Some of them just clamp it off do it may mess you up

[POS carb]

when I had mine smogged like 10 years ago in San Diego they didn't physically check it but they told me I had high NOx and too much advance. Turns out the thermovalve that controls the secondary advance was shot and wouldn't close after the car warmed up. I shoved a metal beebee into the vacuum hose and passed the test

[Dr_Snooz]

If I remember properly the smog check techs don't remove vacuum advance hoses and plug them to read the ignition timing. However, the manual says your supposed to.

Will it make a difference if I did the timing with the vacuum advance hoses plug vs not plugged?

What did you set it to?

[jzdude]

What did you set it to?

+15, in gear, warm, no plugging/clamping hoses.

[jzdude]

Ok, the manual is very confusing but from what I got is this:

For my engine A20A2 KQ Auto:
Warmed up, in-gear:
15 BTDC
Warmed up, in-gear, vacuum advance hoses plugged:
9 BTDC

Please tell me if this is right cuz the manual is confusing. On pg 24-4 in the manual, it says to plug the vacuum advance hoses but the picture on the bottom left of the page doesn't show it plugged (for 15 BTDC). But on pg 24-5, step 9 the instructions and picture plug the hoses and it is 9 BTDC (for other).

I'm guessing the authors of the manual forgot to instruct you to put back the hoses after you check the #2 and #15/#25 hoses for vacuum on pg 24-4.

[POS carb]

are you using the USDM manual or the foreign manual?
you should have an a20a1 KA (49 state) or KL (calif)
the 1989 manual says you should be at 15 degrees BTDC +/- 2 degrees with the hoses on
Base timing should probably be closer to 5 degrees
The US manual does not specify a difference for Federal or California timing on the carbed auto.
If you have the original hood there is an emissions sticker on the top right that states the correct spec for your vehicle.

[Dr_Snooz]

You remove the vacuum lines to set base timing, which is 4*. Plug them back to set normal timing, which is 15*. If setting one throws the other off, then the timing system needs repairs.

[jzdude]

Mmmm I have a regular timing light with no advance 4 BTDC is tricky but anyway....

the timing system needs repairs.

Yep, the advance diaphragm on both ports are broken. Won't hold any vacuum at all. Also, the cap of the distributor and rotor had a little oil coming out of it. Is there a way to take out only the vacuum advance without overhauling the distributor?

Thats kinda suprising since the car runs pretty good, except the muffler makes a girgle noise at idle.

Guess I'm gonna go to the junkyard to get the whole distributor. July 4th weekend 1/2 off sale .

[Dr_Snooz]

You might have trouble passing smog with the vacuum diaphragm broken like that. It can be changed without removing the distributor. Once you get the diaphragm working, just leave the lines on and set it to 15* via the timing mark on the flywheel. There really isn't a mark for 4*.

[jzdude]

If you have a timing light w/ advance you can set the timing to 4* BTDC very easily. Basically, you turn the knob (older/cheaper model timing lights) until the light flashes on TDC and the number on the nob is the timing.

[jzdude]

For the Hitachi advances, does it matter if its a metal or black plastic vacuum advance? The one on my car is metal.

[HLW]

For the Hitachi advances, does it matter if its a metal or black plastic vacuum advance? The one on my car is metal.

As long as it fits properly and the diaphragms hold a vacuum, it does not matter if it is metal or plastic.

[jzdude]

Back from the junkyard (Pick Your Part, Wilmington (The big one)! Couldn't wait for July 4th.

Most of the black plastic ones are for the TEC distributors. The metal ones are for sure for hitachi. For hitachi the end of the arm is longer and rounded off at the end and for the TEC the arm is shorter and square at the end.

8/10 of the accords that still had vacuum advances all were broken. Only one of them had the metal vacuum advance I wanted but it was broken.

Discouraged, I then walked around and looked at about the same year carbed civics. Eureka! The vacuum advances were identical from the outside and the arm (dunno about inners). So I gave them a try.

At home, I had to take the distributor out because the vacuum advance screw was at the bottom. Installing the advance wasn't that hard. Word of advice: throw away the plastic covers that hide the screws! You'll find out why in the next paragraph.

I start the car and it runs for about 2 minutes. Next thing I know, I hear a giant backfire and the car shuts off. Take off the distributor, one of the plastic covers broke off in pieces and rubbed against the rotor. The rotor tip had a bunch of melted plastic. Replaced it and reinstalled distributor all is well. Mmmm lesson learned: plastic doesn't last the test of time .

All's fixed. Probably gonna get smogged this week. Hopefully the cat wasn't damaged from the bad advance (the cat was 2 years old). Wish me luck .

[jzdude]

PASSED!!!!!!!!!!! Will post results later today

[jzdude]

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[Dr_Snooz]

Dang dude, those numbers are super good. Congrats!

[nswst8]

Hell yeah, those numbers are good. I just had to smog my out of state 89 and it failed on the 15mph HCs and NOX.

I removed the EGR for a good cleaning, seafoamed the engine and going back to see if it will pass.

[Buzo]

Good tip about the civics sharing some ignition components with accords. & congrats for passing the test!